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  1. #1
    vrbob's Avatar
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    S4 avant 2.7 or Volvo 2.3 T5 estate

    Hi,

    i am an 8L S3 owner (been around here for a while now). I am thinking of changing the S3 this year to a bigger car and as the title suggest i am concidering either an S4 Avant 2.7 or a Volvo 2.3 T5.

    As yet i have not even sat in an S4 or the Volvo but i thought that before i start looking i would ask here of peoples opinions on both cars (i know this is an Audi forum) and if there is anything specific to look for??

    My budget will be 6K max

    Cheers in advance
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

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  3. #2
    dieselfitter251's Avatar
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    If your buying the volvo look out for a blue flashy thing on top.... dead give away it's been thrashed.... ;O) but at least you'll get through traffic ....

    Sorry.. Not a very good opinion. IMHO and not 'cause I drive an Audi I'd go for the S4, it's probably not as big as Volvo, (In fact, we can get more in the back of our C-max than in my Avant) but it's got wayyy more cred. I think the Audi may be easier to work on the Audi's?
    Ford Mondeo 2.0i Durtec Ghia X Estate
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    Dieselfitter 251
    A4 avant '97 1.9tdi q
    a.k.a. STINKY
    [B]250k!
    ..she's gooooonnnne!!!!

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    Nez
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    I would go for a S4
    (Audi S4 351.9 PS, 603 Nm, MRC Custom Remap XS Power DP's, Cat Back Exhaust, Forge DV, RS4 Intercoolers, RS4 Breaks and Induction kit)



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    951
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    It depends on what you want the car for as the a4 avant has a very small boot for the size of the car,i seem to remember reading the saloon has a bigger boot when the seats are up !! I almost bought a T5r a couple of years ago in light yellow but decided on the a4 as the volvo was an auto !!
    A4 Avant 1.8T Sport (183 bhp).

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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    afaik the Volvo's are all FWD, the S4 is quattro obviously, so you've got a big difference right there with respect of putting the power down. I presume your thinking of the V70 and not the 850?

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
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    jcb
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    t5 is an awesome car and has great tuning potential too.
    I love 5 cylinders as well but the killer for me would be the 4wd of the S4

    4wd wins everytime

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    I have had a couple of Volvo's one was a 850 T5 and most recently a S70 T5 which was running 300BHP with a Rica chip.

    Nice car ex Plod but well maintained and pretty nippy for a 2.3T



    Matt
    Last edited by mattv6; 17th February 2009 at 19:46.

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    dieselfitter251's Avatar
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    PLod cars are ragged.... Driven hard in low gears to maintain car control on the pwer curve... Very rarely in 3rd below 30, 4th below 50 and 5th or 6 ever at all. However, they are very well maintained, not many orginal parts by the time they're sold on.
    Ford Mondeo 2.0i Durtec Ghia X Estate
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    Dieselfitter 251
    A4 avant '97 1.9tdi q
    a.k.a. STINKY
    [B]250k!
    ..she's gooooonnnne!!!!

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    S4 2,7 Biturbo.

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    Do you deal in antiques?..............

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    vrbob's Avatar
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    Cheers for the reply guys.

    Yeah i defo want a manual gearbox and it would be the V70 T5 i would be looking at. I didn't know that the volvo's were only FWD and as my last 3 cars have all been 4WD of some sort its defo something i would want again so thats another tickbox for the audi.

    The S3 i have is really good and is defo one of the best places i have had the pleasure of sitting in traffic in (i will want my heated seats in the new car too). I only wanna change to a bigger car as we have a dog now and i want to be able to put him in the back comfortably. Plus have the ability to lug stuff about if and when necessary. My Dad has a T reg A4 avant which i have driven a few times and i like the size so that pointed me in this direction.

    Anyone know the MPG stats for both cars??

    And no i dont deal antiques (all the stuff i sell is brand new innit)
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

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    vrbob's Avatar
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    Oh and i suppose it would be a good idea to ask if there is anyone selling an S4 Avant here in the 6K price bracket.
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

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    jcb
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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    ive seen S4's as low as 4500, so 6k should get you a pretty decent example.

    Or spend a little less and keep some money left for any parts it may need.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  16. #15
    Mki
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    Please take the audi!

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    I've not been in a Vulva estate, but one thing to be wary of with the B5 is the rear legroom (if that's a consideration for you) as it's pathetic.

    My girlfriend's Yaris has about 6" more rear legroom than my S4!

    I personally think an S4 avant is a better looking car as well and will definately be a better performer. You might find the insurance is a bit steeper though. And the running/maintenance costs can be frightening sometimes! I just had to pay 200 this week to get a couple of CV boots sorted (MOT failure) and a replacement fuel filter.

    In two years of ownership i've also had to replace/repair DV's, silicon hoses (lots of), MAF, radiator, suspension, ABS ECU, suspension arms, bushes, a few temp sensors... oh, and then there's the instinctive desire to mod.
    Mo power, mo problems

  18. #17
    vrbob's Avatar
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    Yeah i sort of thought that it wouldn't really be the cheap option in terms of maintenance. My S3 has cost me enough in the 3 years i have owned it.

    I would hopefully be looking to buy a car with a few mods already done as some of them on the S3 for example are better than the standard equipment.

    I'n mot to fussed about rear legroom as i won't have rear passengers very often i want the avant more for carryin stuff including the dog.
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

  19. #18
    vrbob's Avatar
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    oh and that video is very good
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

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    Yes, that 740's a real drift king.

  21. #20
    Oranoco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Thunder View Post
    but one thing to be wary of with the B5 is the rear legroom (if that's a consideration for you) as it's pathetic.
    Not kidding. My mates rip the **** out of me and say I own the smallest big car they know. My old 1990 Fiesta RS Turbo had better legroom and the 1998 Golf GTi feels huge in the back by comparison.

    Life begins at 140mph
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    My ex wife's New Clio had more rear legroom than my B5.

    But, as I never sit at the back, or have a full compliment of large passengers, it doesn't matter.

    Only kids ever sit in the back.

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    as long as you the driver is comfy in the front who cares about the passengers? they should think themselves lucky they got a lift in the first place

  24. #23
    vrbob's Avatar
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    They will be very lucky to get a lift if its in an S4!

    As long as the legroom is on a par with my Dads B5 A4 then it will do fine.
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

  25. #24
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    my avants just a dog transporter, two rottweilers is a tight squeeze though, wife choose the car, i was looking at volvos as ive liked the estates since they ran them in touring cars, but i liked the audi that much ive had two saloons for myself
    kev
    a4 stuff http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/olds_kool_gti
    99 1.8tqs black saloon
    99 1.8tqs grey avant
    90 eunos roadster

  26. #25
    jcb
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    rear legroom is pants in a B5.
    Impossible to take 4 adult blokes of average height (5'10"+) on a decent journey in comfort

  27. #26
    dieselfitter251's Avatar
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    I got 6 people in my avant once upon a time... and 5 of them were cops!
    Ford Mondeo 2.0i Durtec Ghia X Estate
    Leather / Dog Hair.



    Dieselfitter 251
    A4 avant '97 1.9tdi q
    a.k.a. STINKY
    [B]250k!
    ..she's gooooonnnne!!!!

  28. #27
    vrbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselfitter251 View Post
    I got 6 people in my avant once upon a time... and 5 of them were cops!
    Were they all out cold in the boot??
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

  29. #28
    dieselfitter251's Avatar
    Blow ma own trumpet?

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    Na, but they just about passed out in the back seat, I think that may have been due to the lack of oxygen.. The dog was in the boot, she had more space than all of us :O)
    Ford Mondeo 2.0i Durtec Ghia X Estate
    Leather / Dog Hair.



    Dieselfitter 251
    A4 avant '97 1.9tdi q
    a.k.a. STINKY
    [B]250k!
    ..she's gooooonnnne!!!!

  30. #29
    vrbob's Avatar
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    Well looks like i will start to look for the S4 Avant more seriously now then. There is one locally to me http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/898413.htm he has provisionally sold it but said he would let me know if the guy coming 2moro doesn't show with the cash.

    he says its a facelift model which from the headlights and door handles seems right to me.

    i assume its defo worth looking for a facelift model over a non facelift version. If so does the facelift model only run from 1999.5 thru till 2001.5??

    Also what are the main things to look for being done on cars of this age i am guessing that the cambelt should of been done at least once regardless of mileage. Also are the clutches on these cars prone to needing to be replaced and are there any esay indications they might be on their way out?
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

  31. #30
    jcb
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    that is a good looking car with horrible wheels!

    what I would look for is :
    - lengthy and detailed service history with details of standard servcie intervals as well as any significant replacements.
    -cambelt for certain at least once and well before 80k
    -if the clutch has been done (which is may not ahve been), see if the flywheel was replaced at the time (it should have been). it will be a very high biting point and short travel if it is running out, mine can disengage in less than an inch of pedal travel!
    flywheel clonking and vibration at idle and gear engagement is never a good sign.

    -suspension arm bushes will have been done at some point, if not why not and what are they like now, (clunking from front over bumps, all manner of bushes that go)

    - pollen filter, often gets soaked when the scuttle panel drain hole blocks
    - I would find someone with VAGCOm and get a fault code readout,
    - usual check for anything electric all round (i didn;t check the rear wiper when I bought mine and regret it now!)
    - check the radio volume control, older cars have an issue where it has a mind of its own until you have been going for a while.

  32. #31
    vrbob's Avatar
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    Cheers jcb,

    Yeah i usually like BBS wheels but the 17" look far too small for the car. I thought the S4's all got the 18" avus ronal wheels as standard so why would you put a smaller set on?? if i went to see the car i would of course ask if he still has the originals.

    So the clutch issue is similar to on the S3 then as i had to get the flywheel replaced when doing mine so is it the same setup with a dual mass flywheel? Also does it show signs of slipping in the same way eg in 5th n 6th when you put your foot down the revs go up and then drop down before the car starts to accelerate?

    Is the quattro system the same as the S3's haldex system?

    The guy does say the stereo has a dodgy volume control when its cold plus a couple of lines of the DIS are tempromental.

    Cheers for the other pointers
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

  33. #32
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    A4's have a proper 4WD system.

    Torsen (LSD) centre diff, then open front and rear diffs. Permenant 50:50 4WD unlike the viscous coupled nonsense on the S3.

    S4's came with 17" Avus style rims from the factory, not 18's

    They do have dual mass flywheels, and if its been driven with the clutch slipping the DMF will likely be dead. The heat generated wrecks the rubber blocks that hold the DMF together.

    The S4 clutch bite point is totally different to the 1.8T for some reason, 1.8T's seem to bite very near the floor, the S4 has a much heavier pedal, and bites around half way up the pedal.

    Dodgy volume and DIS are normal on B5's

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  34. #33
    jcb
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    my 1.8t bites very high

  35. #34
    vrbob's Avatar
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    Dunno why i thought they came with 18" wheels then cos the S3 boys are often upgrading to the 18" S4 reps so i guess thats where i thought they originated.

    Haldex is ok but proper 4wd will be alot better my old scooby had a really good 4wd i never once managed to wheelspin the car when pulling away (just kill the clutch instead)
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

  36. #35
    jcb
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    subaru system is better than the torsen IMO.
    Torsen hasn't changed that much since they invented it, very agricultural.
    Subaru have a better split front to rear.

    I can spin all four wheels in my quattro on stock power in the wet on roundabouts...its fun when you mean to.
    I have a Quaiffe LSD for the rear which should put paid to some of that!

  37. #36
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    I think the T3 in the B7/B8's are a bit more advanced. It has a diffrent front/rear split for sure.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  38. #37
    A4Chris's Avatar
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    6000 would get you a Mint V70R AWD (all wheel drive) wheras I reckon you're looking at more cash for a mint S4 (Audi's seem to hold there money more).

    I'd have got a V7O T5 if it wasn't for the fact my Dad has got one. Fantastic car - awesome overtaking punch and an addictive 5 cylinder warble. Feels properly fast in 3rd gear overtakes. The acceleration is so severe that it genuinely is like the traffic that's being passed during the overtake has slammed the brakes on! This is with 240bhp. The extra BHP and torque of the 'R' version will make it even quicker (although maybe not quite S4 quick??)

    Take a look at

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWqD-5_nzNk

    Volvo probably not as much kudos as the S4 but really is a fantastic car. Have a look on Pistonheads for a V70R AWD!

    http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/900317.htm
    Last edited by A4Chris; 20th February 2009 at 22:44.
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    vrbob's Avatar
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    I'm not in too much of a hurry to buy so i will keep my options open so if one of those V70R AWD came up nearby i wouldn't rule it out.

    Cheers for the heads up
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
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    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

  40. #39
    jcb
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    "lets rock" !? WTF? driving like a tw@t round Hull in a FWD volvo does not equate to scenes from Bullitt in a mustang!!

    S4 it is then!

  41. #40
    A4Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcb View Post
    "lets rock" !? WTF? driving like a tw@t round Hull in a FWD volvo does not equate to scenes from Bullitt in a mustang!!

    S4 it is then!
    He, he! Yes - there are a few shocking bits of driving in there but some of the overtakes give you a good feel for the performance and engine sound.

    An S4 will be quicker still and probably a more satisfying drive (and i reckon a lot better to look at - Volvo is a bit boxy). However, you pay for the Audi badge when it comes to parts and Insurance on the S4 is group 20 versus group 17 for the Volvo.

    My point really is don't rule out the volvo just yet. Especially as 6k will get an A1 condition V70R AWD plus probably enough change to get a re-map etc.. so you can push up towards 300bhp.

    Have fun looking!
    A4Chris
    ------------------------------------------------
    B5 Audi A4 1.8T Sport (standard)

 

 
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