IHI VF10 Audi A4 Turbo Upgrade

billybravo

billybravo

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Hello All

Sorry Ive not been on much as of late but i thought i would let you guys know what i was playing with on the Audi this year. :)

I'm going for a IHI turbo swap as i had a good VF10 turbo kicking around the workshop from a scooby who went for a Garrett upgrade.

The turbo I'm using is like the one below Ive had to clock the turbo so that everything fits well and Ive got a good oil drain. when ive done the whole project i may upgrade to one of the TD05 turbos

TD05-16G.JPG


!!!!I will post pics very soon!!!!

i also had a spare turbo inlet flange, So up to now Ive made the manifold and the turbo sits great i have a spare head which Ive used to mock up manifold.

The manifold is basic but will flow nice and it has given me some time to learn the art of manifold making.

the next one i will make will be equal length but for this i went with a manifold close to Jabbas design.


a bit like this but the turbo is side mounted.

pid123.jpg



Next on the list is to make the Downpipe/Screemer pipe

The flange im going to use is the one below which i have on order at the mo

33d8_1.JPG


I'm going to use the wastegate side for a screamer pipe, i want to bring out the pipe just behind the front wheel with maybe a 300mm/ 45mm bore silencer so its not over the top.

And the other 63mm pipe will join upto the 3" exhaust.

More to come :)
 
Looks good, Billy.

I'll be interested in a pair suitable for a 4,2L V8 32V.

Is this something you can supply?

Thanks.
 
hmm i would really need the car so i could make the manifold to fit and once that's done i can make a jig from the master copies.

I'm still in the early days of manifold making Ive done a few Honda B16 vtecs and now i thought i would do mine.

in the end i will do like i said above which is to make a full equal length manifold which will have even better flow than the side mount Ive made for this test.

i can get the head flanges cut from a company close to myself i used a flange i had knocking around from a old after market manifold which will work great for this test run.
 
We saw her on the 'Bay, glad you love her again mate

Good work, get going with the conversion kit then ;)
 
i shall also be getting round to fitting the mega squirt this year as well :)

im really keen on how the screamer pipe will work out there is a guy running one on a RX7 near me and it sounds the nuts on blow off.
 
are you TIG welding? or is it onto a cast log?
have you done it before or just trying your hand?
I ask because I have done a fair bit of mig and arc and bought a Tig machine to do exactly this....I even have a spare IHi inlet flange if you need one!! I changed my mind half way through and went garrett and tubular mani.

would be interested to see some manifold pics
 
For this manifold ive used the mig with stainless wire 0.8mm

i could of tig welded the thing but i wasnt to ***** about how it looked as im using this one as a test to see if i can get the turbo running ok on mega squirt.

i might take that flange of your hands for the next one i make ED

here are some pics

03012009529.jpg


03012009530.jpg


03012009531.jpg
 
Siena said:
Looks good, Billy.

I'll be interested in a pair suitable for a 4,2L V8 32V.

Is this something you can supply?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

This list might be useful to you siena:

http://paulr33.skylinesaustralia.com/docs/turbospecs.xls

Its a list of turbo upgrade options for a 200sx, but clearly its similar enough for one bank of a 4.2v8 so should provide you a decent list of possible turbos. When i looked at it before i decided the TD05H-14B would be a good choice, as its again often available on ebay from low mileage scoobys and a pair of them would be good for 600hp. If your wanting more power then the 16G or 20G might be a better option.
 
^^^^ Thanks for that, Aragorn.

It's quite a comprehensive list too, will go through options.
 
Nice project there.

Are you goint to make a brace for the turbo etc as i amagine there will be quite a bit of load on it and the stainless tubular mani's do not have the reputation of high shear strength.
 
I wondered how this little project was going. How you getting on with the megasquirt EMS? I still dont know if i should do it to mine with the T28 upgrade or just go for a chip :blink: I just dont want to loose the dash display lol.
 
Hi andy the mega Squirt has come along way now but there is still loads to do i hope some time this year to have a plug and play set up ready for us 1.8T owners.

at the moment we are testing on a rover 25 K-series just so we can get the basics going. after this the second unit will be fitted to the audi and a honda crx vtec

i will have 20 mega squirts coming from the states this year all in kit form which we will make over here.

the audi kit will keep the coil on plug as this is a good design and we will also try to keep the std 60-2 tooth wheel on the crank.

as for the display we are working on a fully lcd screen which will replace the old clocks and give some great info
 
got a qustion for someone out there that might know i need to know what sort of pipe fitting and size is on our hard to flex turbo inlet oil pipe

its a female tread which has a cone on the inside ? anybody know?
 
All i know is its an odd size, i had an adaptor made out of the old oil union mated to a new union brazed together and had a braided oil line made up to fit the std size union.

If you have a Pirtek outlet near you i suggest to go and see them as they have all the odd sized on the shelf.
 
Im very interested in your Megasquirt conversion, if you need another test car i would love to help out. I take it you will be ditching the MAF and going with a MAP sensor as that is the main issue with tuning our cars.
 
its funny, cossie boys often long for a MAF instead of their map sensor, as it means small modifications to the engine dont require remapping, now we have a MAF and people want to remove it?

The stock ECU uses MAF for main fuelling and MAP for corrections, this means that if for example you fit a new exhaust or decat it, the MAF reading goes up and the fuelling increases accordingly. Without the MAF that type of change isnt as easy.

I dont understand why you'd want to remove the ECU that audi spent millions developing and replace it with a 'squirt. The stock ECU is plenty powerful enough to run the motor, and all the really fine tuning stuff like cold start/atmospheric correction etc is done already. If you need more flow, then fit a larger MAF and rescale the fuel maps to correspond with the larger MAF's readings...
 
The the whole point of MS is that its a development tool for people to learn and modify its program. Audi did indeed spend millions developing an ecu that was designed with economy in mind and best fuel consumption. This can and is best altered with a chip so the air/fuel/timing tables can be changed as you know you need a professional tuner to do one off maps. But if you add more mods you will need the tuner to do it again, this obviously costs quite a bit of cash and after 2 remaps your looking at just under £1000. The MS system is half that price and is a self learning system and is also a easy system to understand to map yourself.
 
couldn't of said it better myself Andy also a few other trick things with the mega squirt is that we can now have real time data logging and added features like anti lag nitrous control and so on.

i know its not for everybody but a few people out there i know are interested in learning.
 
As i said before keep me updated i'll deffo take a MS kit off you if you make a plug in version. I can get the mapping done and sorted my end that's not a problem.
 
i guess it depends on what the cars used for, if its some drag or race special then perhaps a map knocked up on 'squirt would be fine, but without a dyno you will never get that map perfect as you simply cant hold the motor at whatever load site your mapping to ensure the fuelling and ignition timing is spot on, also seems that blasting up and down some motorway or A-Road trying to log and map the fuelling just seems crazy, and trying to use detcans on a moving car is going to be even more challenging.

A 'squirt mapped on a dyno by someone who knows what they're doing would be, for the most part, a good solution. But any mappable ECU, be it a squirt, MBE, Autronic, Emerald etc, is only as good as the map, and your just not going to get a good map without a dyno.

The Bosch ECU is mappable, with the proper kit you can use an EEPROM emulator and live map it on a dyno just as you would with any other mappable management system, then once your map is correct you can load it onto a normal chip and off you go. Yes any big changes to the engine would require a remap, but the same would apply with a megasquirt, and trying to properly map in the changes from say a set of cams or a larger turbo without a dyno isnt easy.

Just seems to me that keeping the bosch ECU, which has adaptive mapping as standard and having it properly mapped for the mods on a dyno seems to be the sensible way to go on a road car.
 
Ill give you a for example... I phoned a few tuning companies around my way who apparently specialize in VAG car mapping inc. one offs. I told them there was a T28 turbo stuck to the side of my engine and near enough all of them said they couldn't do it for some reason or another. Then they would try and sell me their aftermarket engine management that they liked mapping with be it emerald, autronic etc...

So my reason for getting Squirt is it's a good ECU now its had years of development done on it, also its cheep and I have mapped with it before. So i could get it to run and drive within safe limits then i could go and get some time on some rollers and get it map it myself.
 
Sounds an interesting set-up.

I've built up and installed Megajolt - which is the Megasquirt ignition only on Golf II, and it worked pretty well.

Will be interesting to see what the full version's like.

Billy / Andy, is it similar to VEMS?
 
Cant say TBH as i have never seen the VEMS ecu or used one before. Id assume its got graphic user interface software as do most programmable ecu's do these days so cant be much different in use.
 
Very interesting thread.. wish I'd gone down the route of an Emarald ECU now instead of a map.. oh well you live and learn.
 
Lee Goodall said:
Very interesting thread.. wish I'd gone down the route of an Emarald ECU now instead of a map.. oh well you live and learn.
Click to expand...

I would need it mapping professionally but at present I have the old type ECU which requires a chip for each new map.
 
Andy: i see what your saying, but thats more because a lot of the VAG "tuners" in this country are basically reselling off the shelf chips. Even the ones that offer a "live map" are pretty much only installing a prewritten map, and adjusting some parameters to scale the overall fuelling and tweak the boost pressure.

You take a Ford YB to one of the big ford tuners and say i'd like this mapped with special turbo X, special cams Y and special headwork Z and they'll say yes sir no problem, and happily map the ancient (and slow) Ford ECU to run the engine. The VAG world seems far too plug and play, the "tuners" want you to buy their "stage x" with their matched turbo, injectors, intercooler and map, and charge you a bomb for the privelege instead of actually mapping the components you provide.

The Bosch ECU _CAN_ run the engine, its just that not many of the so called tuners here have the knowhow to do it. I have to say i've been less than impressed with some of the remap jobs ive heard people have on here with their various engines.

Maybe going mappable is the only way to go to get the engine properly mapped to run big power in this country at the present time, and if thats the case it shows what a sad state of affairs the UK VAG tuning scene is in.

Still, even if you DO use 'squirt or any other mappable unit, it all comes down to the map at the end of the day. If its mapped badly its going to run like crap or even melt. I'm not judging your abilities, perhaps you can map the motor up perfectly yourself, but i know that if it was my car, especially if it was a daily driver, then i'd want someone to map it that knows what they're doing.

A few years ago me and a mate built a relatively obscure engine for his nova, it was effectively a rally spec 1.6 8v, but instead of sticking a clarty old set of weber 40's on the side, we left the MPi inlet manifold on there and got a DTA system hooked up to it. We loaded on a map from a 2.0 8v rally spec motor, and scaled the fuelling back and it ran like a sack of *****, but well enough to allow us to drive it to a rolling road. 8 hours of "mapping" later, and the guy gives us the keys and declares its done, we take it up the road and at full throttle it was awesome, making 150hp at 7100rpm and having a flat torque curve from 3k to 7k, we paid and set off home and quickly discovered it was a complete **** to drive at anything other than full bore. When we got home i cracked out the laptop to see what was going on with the map, and discovered it was a complete mess, full throttle sites pretty closely matched the shape of the engines torque curve but everything else was a state, random peaks and troughs everywhere. We asked the guy who mapped it to fix it as there was no way that could be correct, and he claimed that as we'd "broke into" his map he wasnt going to do any more work to it unless we paid for it, and tried to blame the random spikes on pulses in the inlet manifold. Clearly a bit of a knob, but it does show that it really is down to the mapping at the end of the day as to wether the car becomes nice to drive, while producing the power you want and returning sensible fuel economy, and if a guy that apparently has years of experiance and had the car on a dyno for 8 hours cant get it right, i very much doubt your going to get a decent map yourself unless your pretty clued up and have the right kit (ie a dyno)
 
Yes i agree with your views, there are not very many mappers who actually do full on maps anymore.

As for concerns mapping i do have access to a RR and a mapper who is happy to do MS or any other standalone (given enough time) he doesn't do VAG chipping as he hasnt got the emulator for the VAG range, I prob wont map the car fully as im not that good with mapping yet.. Ill get the car to run then take it to my RR.

It is a sad state of affairs for the VAG tuning scene as the USA have loads of mappers who can do good big power maps on stock ecu's i just dont understand why it hasn't come over here yet.

I used to own a few RS's and getting a custom map on one of those was so easy and people were only to happy to do the work to get the best power for the mods.
 
Andy.B said:
It is a sad state of affairs for the VAG tuning scene as the USA have loads of mappers who can do good big power maps on stock ecu's i just dont understand why it hasn't come over here yet.
Click to expand...

I hear ya mate, its irratating that the US scene can make a map that can run a K03 @ 22 psi for a daily driver, and K04s that make 240bhp ATW and we struggle to get a map to put 240@the fly on a hybrid unit.

I hope craig can get this MS to work, i know there is a guy on the Zine witha post dedicated to getting this running on a 1.8t, iirc he even has a base map there too.

The emerald is a good system and very tunable isnt it in the region of £800 plus vat for the basic unit? Then tuning on top,yeah!
 
iirc the emerald is 595+vat then 295+vat for a full mapping session.

So just over a grand for it installed and mapped.
 
Byzan A4 said:
I hear ya mate, its irratating that the US scene can make a map that can run a K03 @ 22 psi for a daily driver, and K04s that make 240bhp ATW and we struggle to get a map to put 240@the fly on a hybrid unit.
Click to expand...

its just software, get youe ECU loaded in the US or buy a spare.
I got mine done by Tapp Auto.
give him the spec, he sends the ECU, talks you through any tweaks.
granted its plug and play but it is a shed load better than most of the UK options and he has at least spent the time to write a version of a map that will run on a 2.0l instead of 1.8t 20v
 
i presume that will only work with ecu/engine combos that are actually available over there?

The early AEB ecus certainly dont exist in the states as they didnt get the 1.8T until 98 or something...
 
So can Tapp "chip" tune? As thats interesting? And he could load onto my spare ECU so i just recode it to work with the immo as they don't have them in the US

My only thought was maybe GIAC could possibly help as they have a P&P option for the K04-15 and above AFAIK
 
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