Going for an amd remap soon and i have read on this forum that its a good idea to get the dvs to maximise the effectiveness of the remap. Is this true and will I need 2, one for each turbo?
should i get the dv?
- Thread starter sash
- Start date
Yep... you will need 2 for the S4, and its worth doing cos i doubt the OE unit will tkae it chipped for too long!
Rich
Rich
thanks RichA3Turbo.
Which are the best DVs for the s4?
Not sure which one to use. I suppose as amd are doing the remap that would have the neccessary dv for the job, right?
Which are the best DVs for the s4?
Not sure which one to use. I suppose as amd are doing the remap that would have the neccessary dv for the job, right?
My experience of the DV on the 1.8T is slightly different to Davids, but I do think it's a lot of money to spend when you have twin turbo's to think of.
The link below is my review of the DV I won on a forum competition and gives my view as someone who should know what they are talking about /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Hyperboost DV review
The link below is my review of the DV I won on a forum competition and gives my view as someone who should know what they are talking about /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Hyperboost DV review
Gambba, ive read your post already. I did a bit of research on DVs after i decided to do the remap.
After reading your post and others on the subject of DVs, i find it hard to believe that the driveability would decrease when a good aftermarket DV has been installed properly on a chipped car.
Gamma (or anyone else reading), do you have any experience with Forge or Viper DVs?
May be a good idea to start a thread on this... Which DV?
After reading your post and others on the subject of DVs, i find it hard to believe that the driveability would decrease when a good aftermarket DV has been installed properly on a chipped car.
Gamma (or anyone else reading), do you have any experience with Forge or Viper DVs?
May be a good idea to start a thread on this... Which DV?
Most of the aftermarket DV's available are derived versions of the Forge, and I personally think they are all much of a muchness in terms of performance. I think any difference between DV's is very difficult to actually feel on the raod, and as I have only tried the standard and the Hyperboost I can't honestly comment on others.
My unscientific approach is to go for the one that pleases you aesthetically...yes, how it looks, nothing else IMO.
My unscientific approach is to go for the one that pleases you aesthetically...yes, how it looks, nothing else IMO.
Good point David.
Damn, tricky decision...
change the Throttle body (known problem) or DV (known problem) with the remap.
Im starting to think stick with the bosch DVs and sort out the throttle body.
I may not even have to change the throttle body. I heard that audi revised their design in 2000.
David, i see your cars a 2000. Did your throttle body rubber split? Or did you change it for peace of mind?
Damn, tricky decision...
change the Throttle body (known problem) or DV (known problem) with the remap.
Im starting to think stick with the bosch DVs and sort out the throttle body.
I may not even have to change the throttle body. I heard that audi revised their design in 2000.
David, i see your cars a 2000. Did your throttle body rubber split? Or did you change it for peace of mind?
Don't bother changing the TTB if you're prepared to check it regularly. I carry one in the car and the tools to change it. They cost £7. and take 20mins to remove and refit. By checking you need to remove it to check it properly, it useually splits under the hose clamp.
My AMD chipped car has done 13K now with no probs. I'm running Hyperboost DV's by AMD's recommendation that they offered better cooling over the Forge. (BULL) The Hyperboost are virtualy identical to Forge with th eexception of the fins. Lets face it how much extra cooling do you think those fins are going help. In fact they may even generate a heat sink from the engine bay heat look where they are placed!
I'm with David R. I shelled out the £140 and they didn't perform as I had expected i.e. minimise lag between shifts. In fact I'm not convinced they are not the souce of my occasional boost spike which sends me into limp mode.
Waste of money. Make sure you have the latest standard Boshe DV's fitted. Also note I'm told the DVs for the S4 are a different serial No. than the 1.8T.
You'd be better spending £140 on a boost gauge so you can keep an eye on what's going on with reagrds to faulty DV's TBB's. I'm fitting the APR centre vent one this weekend.
It's a real nice looking bit of kit comes complete. I'll let you know how it goes. I can't remeber where I read it. But someone had suggested the APR vent gauge was not back lit. This is not true in fact it comes with either green or red back light options /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
My AMD chipped car has done 13K now with no probs. I'm running Hyperboost DV's by AMD's recommendation that they offered better cooling over the Forge. (BULL) The Hyperboost are virtualy identical to Forge with th eexception of the fins. Lets face it how much extra cooling do you think those fins are going help. In fact they may even generate a heat sink from the engine bay heat look where they are placed!
I'm with David R. I shelled out the £140 and they didn't perform as I had expected i.e. minimise lag between shifts. In fact I'm not convinced they are not the souce of my occasional boost spike which sends me into limp mode.
Waste of money. Make sure you have the latest standard Boshe DV's fitted. Also note I'm told the DVs for the S4 are a different serial No. than the 1.8T.
You'd be better spending £140 on a boost gauge so you can keep an eye on what's going on with reagrds to faulty DV's TBB's. I'm fitting the APR centre vent one this weekend.
It's a real nice looking bit of kit comes complete. I'll let you know how it goes. I can't remeber where I read it. But someone had suggested the APR vent gauge was not back lit. This is not true in fact it comes with either green or red back light options /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I reckon the stock dv valves are garbage I've had 6 20 valve turbo engined VAG cars and a 2.7TT engined Audi and on all but 2 had problems with leaking/failing standard dv's. Problem is that some of the aftermarket ones weren't that much better. Currently using one of the Viper dv valves in a chipped 20vt and find it very good and so far (touch wood) no probs. As for smoothness and quality it's streets ahead of hyperboost and forge jobs...IMO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
[ QUOTE ]
s4sh said:
Rich, you da man!
I'm gonna bookmark that.
I take it you have Forge DVs
I also notice from your profile that you also have had an AMD remap, did AMD provide the DV or did you sort that yourself?
Also, whats the difference like with the remap?
whats the mpg like?
[/ QUOTE ]
S4SH,
I bought the DV a few months prior to the remap. With regards to the remap, my fuel consumption improved over standard form, and there was a big difference in power... obviously if you using the power then the fuel consumption increases.
Rich
s4sh said:
Rich, you da man!
I'm gonna bookmark that.
I take it you have Forge DVs
I also notice from your profile that you also have had an AMD remap, did AMD provide the DV or did you sort that yourself?
Also, whats the difference like with the remap?
whats the mpg like?
[/ QUOTE ]
S4SH,
I bought the DV a few months prior to the remap. With regards to the remap, my fuel consumption improved over standard form, and there was a big difference in power... obviously if you using the power then the fuel consumption increases.
Rich
RS6Barry I understand where you are coming from. Hence why I bought the hypboost valves. Have your experiences been with the new revised DV? As I understand it Bosch have modified their DVs a couple of times. Some lad on Audiworld has dissected a new one and compared against the old type.
The bottom line is these expensive valves don't deliver the kind of performance they claim to. However, by the very nature of their design they should be inherently more reliable i.e. no diaphragm to tear.
I won't really know until I change to the new Bosch DVs for a while to see what if any performance difference or reliability issues arise.
The bottom line is these expensive valves don't deliver the kind of performance they claim to. However, by the very nature of their design they should be inherently more reliable i.e. no diaphragm to tear.
I won't really know until I change to the new Bosch DVs for a while to see what if any performance difference or reliability issues arise.
Guys,
if the DV fails and starts to leak air what problems may arise if the problem goes unnoticed.
Are there very obvious signs when it fails?
This is really why im looking to replace the DV.
Cos im not an expert in car sounds I keep thinking that I may not notice a bad one so just replace the one I have with a better one.
Rich, nice to know that you are getting a few extra mpg out of it.
PS I saw the end of a shell advert for a fuel "designed with Ferrari", these were the last words said in the add (just caught the end of it). Anyone heard about this?
if the DV fails and starts to leak air what problems may arise if the problem goes unnoticed.
Are there very obvious signs when it fails?
This is really why im looking to replace the DV.
Cos im not an expert in car sounds I keep thinking that I may not notice a bad one so just replace the one I have with a better one.
Rich, nice to know that you are getting a few extra mpg out of it.
PS I saw the end of a shell advert for a fuel "designed with Ferrari", these were the last words said in the add (just caught the end of it). Anyone heard about this?
"Have your experiences been with the new revised DV?"
Fraid so they still fail just as often.
Golf 1.8t 1999
Bora 1.8t 2000
TT 225 2001
RS4 2001
Octavia VRS 1.8T 2003
All had failed DV's at some point.
Viper is def the best 3rd party one - certainly none of the probs that I experienced with the forge or hyperboost and certainly far far smoother.
Fraid so they still fail just as often.
Golf 1.8t 1999
Bora 1.8t 2000
TT 225 2001
RS4 2001
Octavia VRS 1.8T 2003
All had failed DV's at some point.
Viper is def the best 3rd party one - certainly none of the probs that I experienced with the forge or hyperboost and certainly far far smoother.
My S4 is sick.
For the last 6 months it has failed to generate anything like the correct level of boost, and the only thing I have witnessed to convince me any fault has been corrected is that the stock DV's were open (diaphrams ruptured). SO I think the Bosch items are not up to the task.
I've had a new MAF, a pair of lambda probes and a couple of days in my local quattro specialist.
The car has an MTM chip and Milltek cat back and I guess I should go faster than things like a 330 BMW. It doesn't and I'm very pi**ed off with the whole situ.
Who can help me fix it, and do Audi not have real time displays for ECU sensor data?
Also I wonder if the DV's are not operating properly - who do I check for air leaks? Is there a way of measuring performance of the vacuum line which operates the DV? Can I block off the DV feeds and see how the car goes then? (does the car use DV's as an alternative to wastegate actuation?)
If you know how this stuff works I'd be glad to hear from you - 07710 526739 or arnie@the-webbs.com
For the last 6 months it has failed to generate anything like the correct level of boost, and the only thing I have witnessed to convince me any fault has been corrected is that the stock DV's were open (diaphrams ruptured). SO I think the Bosch items are not up to the task.
I've had a new MAF, a pair of lambda probes and a couple of days in my local quattro specialist.
The car has an MTM chip and Milltek cat back and I guess I should go faster than things like a 330 BMW. It doesn't and I'm very pi**ed off with the whole situ.
Who can help me fix it, and do Audi not have real time displays for ECU sensor data?
Also I wonder if the DV's are not operating properly - who do I check for air leaks? Is there a way of measuring performance of the vacuum line which operates the DV? Can I block off the DV feeds and see how the car goes then? (does the car use DV's as an alternative to wastegate actuation?)
If you know how this stuff works I'd be glad to hear from you - 07710 526739 or arnie@the-webbs.com
Good point Gambba. Make sense just to upgrade to the latest Bosch ones, cheap, revised and easily available. Keep my money for a short shifter may be.
I also did notice that the bosch DV was second in the poll so they cant be that bad.
I also did notice that the bosch DV was second in the poll so they cant be that bad.
Guys have read the above and thawt u might like to read this
http://dv.mistertam.com/8.htm
only someones opinion but it does make sense
http://dv.mistertam.com/8.htm
only someones opinion but it does make sense
Most of the after market valves out there dont perform well in the 1.8T. The surface area of the piston is too small to react quickly enough given the amount of air moving through the system. You will know this when you feel the car shimmer funny when you get off of the throttle. Some times it can be more than a little. That is the air that was supposed to be diverted to somewhere up stream of the turbo bouncing off of the compressor wheel. The entire purpose of the diverter valve is to protect the turbo by keeping that from happening. My advice would be to stick with the stock style (diaphragm) before you spend your hard earned money a valve that most likely will not perform well. I suggest the 710N valve (last digits in the part number). This valve has been redesigned by Bosch and was first used in the 225hp version of the 1.8T found in the TT. The problem with the preceding Bosch diaphragm valves was that the diaphragm would split and bleed off pressure. The 710N valve is the successor using a superior diaphragm material. Also most after market valves out there are a piston type, which have a fundamental flaw of needing maintenance. The lubricant on the piston wears away and the piston will stick therefore leaving it inoperable, thus defeating the purpose and possibly damaging your turbo. In some cases I have seen valves that use an o-ring have them sucked out of a valve and into the turbo. This is obviously not good. We have been running the 710N valve on our Stage III S4 for over a year now and we have had no problems. And you gotta know that car gets beat on!
Interesting post Chad. Looks like the bosch should be given a chance.
Interesting... if you spend more money on an aftermarket DV you would expect it to perform better than the standard, expecially when you could be paying 4 times as much.
As we are seeing in this thread there is not a strong enough case to say that aftermarket DVs perform/last any better than the revised bosch ones.
Interesting... if you spend more money on an aftermarket DV you would expect it to perform better than the standard, expecially when you could be paying 4 times as much.
As we are seeing in this thread there is not a strong enough case to say that aftermarket DVs perform/last any better than the revised bosch ones.
DavidR
Registered User
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Taken from above link for reference...
[ QUOTE ]
My Conclusions/Recommendations:
A DV is a DV. People say they FEEL the difference. I'm more inclined to say that they FORCE themselves to feel a placebo difference because they spent so much darn $$ on a DV! Frankly, if your DV were already bad, and you put in another stock DV, then you're going to feel an overwhelming difference, right? Of course! But if you already have a working DV, and you put another aftermarket DV in there, you really don't feel a difference. At least I didn't.
BLIND TEST: I had a friend install a dv at random in MY CAR. I didn't ask him which one he installed. I then went driving. Came back, and he installed the other one (avg time of 15 mins to install a dv if you know where one is located on the Passat/Audi). went out driving again. Came back, and he installed yet another one. went out, came back. Then I had to decide which one he installed. (yes, I took the same route each time, yes, I tried to keep everything the same). Well, I failed miserably. Frankly, I could not tell the difference. Car performed the same.
Why buy an aftermarket DV? Well, cuz you can clean it and clean it and get a new spring for it and clean it some more! Yes, the spring is a moving part, and you go from vacuum to + boost all the time when you press on the gas. This means the spring is working itself every single time you push on the gas. Well, if this is the case, then a moving part will always wear down, right? Probably. And yes, the LITHIUM grease that you oil it with does get black, why? Because of the dirt and oil that accumulates over time. Will this 'friction' wear down your dv? I supposed so. That's why cleaning it helps because it gives you that new refreshing placebo effect of it being brand new and working better =). It's also nice to buy one of these aftermarket ones because you can always sell it used for $90 or so. That means you only spent about $40.00-$50.00 for it!!!!
Why buy a stock TT one for $35.00? Because I doubt the spring will fail in a month. It's very cheap if you're having boost issues and would like to determine if it is the Diverter valve. It's NOT a weak spring! Look at the results! You can buy 4 of these babies before you get your money's worth on an aftermarket one. I would have to say that one of these will probably last a while. The spring might start to get weaker within a year of use, but I've only test drove mine for 4 months, and so far it's still doing AOK.
Since I don't work for any of these companies nor am I affiliated with any of these companies, I would have to say that any aftermarket dv is nice. I truly liked all of them. Any of the ones tested did well. Metal to me is ALWAYS better than plastic. But if you ever need to take pictures of your mods, please buy an HP digital camera. These things kick butt. Be sure to print them out using an HP printer and HP photo paper, and what compliments the HP printer more than a HP or Compaq laptop (which you can also use for the Vag Com). And be sure to post all your pictures up for us to see at www.hpphoto.com for free!
[/ QUOTE ]
Kinda what some have been saying all along. The revised Bosch valve is much improved over the A revision and reliable...
[ QUOTE ]
My Conclusions/Recommendations:
A DV is a DV. People say they FEEL the difference. I'm more inclined to say that they FORCE themselves to feel a placebo difference because they spent so much darn $$ on a DV! Frankly, if your DV were already bad, and you put in another stock DV, then you're going to feel an overwhelming difference, right? Of course! But if you already have a working DV, and you put another aftermarket DV in there, you really don't feel a difference. At least I didn't.
BLIND TEST: I had a friend install a dv at random in MY CAR. I didn't ask him which one he installed. I then went driving. Came back, and he installed the other one (avg time of 15 mins to install a dv if you know where one is located on the Passat/Audi). went out driving again. Came back, and he installed yet another one. went out, came back. Then I had to decide which one he installed. (yes, I took the same route each time, yes, I tried to keep everything the same). Well, I failed miserably. Frankly, I could not tell the difference. Car performed the same.
Why buy an aftermarket DV? Well, cuz you can clean it and clean it and get a new spring for it and clean it some more! Yes, the spring is a moving part, and you go from vacuum to + boost all the time when you press on the gas. This means the spring is working itself every single time you push on the gas. Well, if this is the case, then a moving part will always wear down, right? Probably. And yes, the LITHIUM grease that you oil it with does get black, why? Because of the dirt and oil that accumulates over time. Will this 'friction' wear down your dv? I supposed so. That's why cleaning it helps because it gives you that new refreshing placebo effect of it being brand new and working better =). It's also nice to buy one of these aftermarket ones because you can always sell it used for $90 or so. That means you only spent about $40.00-$50.00 for it!!!!
Why buy a stock TT one for $35.00? Because I doubt the spring will fail in a month. It's very cheap if you're having boost issues and would like to determine if it is the Diverter valve. It's NOT a weak spring! Look at the results! You can buy 4 of these babies before you get your money's worth on an aftermarket one. I would have to say that one of these will probably last a while. The spring might start to get weaker within a year of use, but I've only test drove mine for 4 months, and so far it's still doing AOK.
Since I don't work for any of these companies nor am I affiliated with any of these companies, I would have to say that any aftermarket dv is nice. I truly liked all of them. Any of the ones tested did well. Metal to me is ALWAYS better than plastic. But if you ever need to take pictures of your mods, please buy an HP digital camera. These things kick butt. Be sure to print them out using an HP printer and HP photo paper, and what compliments the HP printer more than a HP or Compaq laptop (which you can also use for the Vag Com). And be sure to post all your pictures up for us to see at www.hpphoto.com for free!
[/ QUOTE ]
Kinda what some have been saying all along. The revised Bosch valve is much improved over the A revision and reliable...
Drill
Registered User
OK, time for my 2 cents /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
I recently purchased the Viper DV from the GB, and to be honest, I have yet to detect any difference, but to be honest, it doesn't bother me too much, as it looks friggin sweet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif and I know that there's no diaphgram (sp)to go bad. HOWEVER, before getting the Viper, I'd been running an RS6 DV (710P) and had no problems with it.
My advice to you s4sh would be to pick up a pair of Bosch DV's (I'd recommend the 710P) and see if you can feel any difference. If not, then stick with the Bosch's and use the extra $$ for a mod that'll give you more of what you want /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
I recently purchased the Viper DV from the GB, and to be honest, I have yet to detect any difference, but to be honest, it doesn't bother me too much, as it looks friggin sweet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif and I know that there's no diaphgram (sp)to go bad. HOWEVER, before getting the Viper, I'd been running an RS6 DV (710P) and had no problems with it.
My advice to you s4sh would be to pick up a pair of Bosch DV's (I'd recommend the 710P) and see if you can feel any difference. If not, then stick with the Bosch's and use the extra $$ for a mod that'll give you more of what you want /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
Drill, I know what you are saying but I think with the bosch installed I will always be waiting for something to go wrong. Not the best feeling.
As i said in my last post reliability is my main concern here.
From all the posts Ive read on this subject I would say that you are more likely to get problems with diaphrams than with pistons.
As i said in my last post reliability is my main concern here.
From all the posts Ive read on this subject I would say that you are more likely to get problems with diaphrams than with pistons.
Dippy, i also joined rs246 when i joined here.
I dont know if you remember but you answered a question about shortshifters for me on that forum.
Took your advice and called AMD, they're fitting the shortshifter for me when i take it in for the remap.
I dont know if you remember but you answered a question about shortshifters for me on that forum.
Took your advice and called AMD, they're fitting the shortshifter for me when i take it in for the remap.
Off topic but i noticed some threads regarding boost guages on this forum or on rs246 cant remember but anyway i was interested in that OCT boost guage.
In fact cooler than that was the Defi HUD (in fact im sure Dippys car has this). I wished they used more than one colour though. If they could have used different colours on the display like the OCT then i think i may just have bought one.
Anyway, the reason im asking is, if I managed to get hold of of a boost guage, do you think AMD would fit it?
In fact cooler than that was the Defi HUD (in fact im sure Dippys car has this). I wished they used more than one colour though. If they could have used different colours on the display like the OCT then i think i may just have bought one.
Anyway, the reason im asking is, if I managed to get hold of of a boost guage, do you think AMD would fit it?
Hi s4sh. im thinking of having the short shifter done, then the brakes all done by AMD. When are you going in to get the work done?
23rd, next week.
What brakes you gonna get?
I did ask AMD if they could sort out the suspension and brakes as well but i think it was a bit too much to ask them to do in 1 day, they're doing service, alignment, remap and shortshifter on the 23rd.
Will have to go in another day to sort out the brakes and sus.
Blessing in disguise i suppose, bit too much money to spend in one day. Wifee would have gone mad if she saw the bill.
Besides ive got to take her out shopping in Bicester village and i dont know how much thats gonna set me back.
What brakes you gonna get?
I did ask AMD if they could sort out the suspension and brakes as well but i think it was a bit too much to ask them to do in 1 day, they're doing service, alignment, remap and shortshifter on the 23rd.
Will have to go in another day to sort out the brakes and sus.
Blessing in disguise i suppose, bit too much money to spend in one day. Wifee would have gone mad if she saw the bill.
Besides ive got to take her out shopping in Bicester village and i dont know how much thats gonna set me back.
[ QUOTE ]
s4sh said:
Blessing in disguise i suppose, bit too much money to spend in one day. Wifee would have gone mad if she saw the bill.
Besides ive got to take her out shopping in Bicester village and i dont know how much thats gonna set me back.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ouch, that's goin to hurt all in one day, especially the last part!!
s4sh said:
Blessing in disguise i suppose, bit too much money to spend in one day. Wifee would have gone mad if she saw the bill.
Besides ive got to take her out shopping in Bicester village and i dont know how much thats gonna set me back.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ouch, that's goin to hurt all in one day, especially the last part!!
i know.
Just knowing that my car is being remaped and sorted out will hopefully be enough to pull me through the shopping trip ordeal.
Either that or hopefully bicester has one of these...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3173126.stm
Just knowing that my car is being remaped and sorted out will hopefully be enough to pull me through the shopping trip ordeal.
Either that or hopefully bicester has one of these...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3173126.stm
