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Thread: how rare is the 110 tdi avant quattro?

  1. #1
    jbh
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    how rare is the 110 tdi avant quattro?

    as the title says.. how rare is the 110 tdi quattro avant?
    I know it took me a while to find one for sale but is there many on the road?
    just ive spoke to a few VAG boys I know and when I say ive just bought one the first thing they say is its rare.
    so how many is on here?
    1997 A4 Avant 110 TDi quattro
    1996 A4 Avant 110 TDi breaking

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    Bradderz_1988's Avatar
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    Theres not many left now id propably say theres more TQS's than the 110 Quattro wish i would of bought the red saloon for a work horse and had the TQS as a toy, its being broken on ebay had all facelift bumpers front lights and TQS interior !!

    AUDI A4 B5 Quattro Sport Steering Wheel And Airbags SRS Breaking | eBay
    1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Sport - Volcano Black

    Mods - Frankenturbo F21 Kit - 3" MAF - Saab Reds - THS Decat - Non Res Milltek - ECS Crank Pulley - 034 Snub + Bracket/Gbox Mounts - 1Z/S2 Clutch + Flywheel - 007p - ICM + EVAP Delete - PFR6Q Plugs - S4 B6 345mm Brakes - 300mm Rear Brakes - Goodridge Hoses - LCR Splitter -S4 Bumbers + Skirts/Mouldings - OEM Xenons - Apikol Diff mounts - Polytek'd Rear Diff Mount
    To do/planned -Eibach pro's - GT2871/76R + FMIC + ME7 (maybe) + Engine/stroker Build

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    I think they would be included in this list. Probably find not many for sale as people hang onto them as they do great mpg for quite a large car.

    AUDI A4 1.9 TDI QUATTRO - How Many Left?
    Karls 312bhp A4 3.0 TDI build thread http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4...ld-thread.html

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    Bradderz_1988's Avatar
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    Well this is whats for sale ATM on

    Ebay -

    TDI Quattro = 1

    TQS = 6

    autotrader -

    TDI Quattro - 1

    TQS - 2

    pistonheads -

    TDI Quattro - 0

    TQS - 0

    YEP less than the TQS !!!

    AUDI A4 1.8T QUATTRO SPORT - How Many Left?
    1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Sport - Volcano Black

    Mods - Frankenturbo F21 Kit - 3" MAF - Saab Reds - THS Decat - Non Res Milltek - ECS Crank Pulley - 034 Snub + Bracket/Gbox Mounts - 1Z/S2 Clutch + Flywheel - 007p - ICM + EVAP Delete - PFR6Q Plugs - S4 B6 345mm Brakes - 300mm Rear Brakes - Goodridge Hoses - LCR Splitter -S4 Bumbers + Skirts/Mouldings - OEM Xenons - Apikol Diff mounts - Polytek'd Rear Diff Mount
    To do/planned -Eibach pro's - GT2871/76R + FMIC + ME7 (maybe) + Engine/stroker Build

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    jbh
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    I had a look on eBay last night but couldn't see any of the 110 quattros for sale
    1997 A4 Avant 110 TDi quattro
    1996 A4 Avant 110 TDi breaking

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    Bradderz_1988's Avatar
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    This is the only one i can see on there

    1998 AUDI A4 1.9 TDI QUATTRO GREEN | eBay

    You may not of found it as if you put lowest first theres a couple of sub 3k cars just after the last few cars at around 30k so it doesnt always put them in low to high !!
    1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Sport - Volcano Black

    Mods - Frankenturbo F21 Kit - 3" MAF - Saab Reds - THS Decat - Non Res Milltek - ECS Crank Pulley - 034 Snub + Bracket/Gbox Mounts - 1Z/S2 Clutch + Flywheel - 007p - ICM + EVAP Delete - PFR6Q Plugs - S4 B6 345mm Brakes - 300mm Rear Brakes - Goodridge Hoses - LCR Splitter -S4 Bumbers + Skirts/Mouldings - OEM Xenons - Apikol Diff mounts - Polytek'd Rear Diff Mount
    To do/planned -Eibach pro's - GT2871/76R + FMIC + ME7 (maybe) + Engine/stroker Build

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    jbh
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    that doesn't look to bad.
    the advert doesn't help the car though.

    I thought the advert for mine was bad.. no pictures no details in the ad and the title was old audi..
    it was only for the fact that I had searched diesel estate I went into it for a look.
    here was the advert I read for mine. it had been advertised since the start of december. boy said I was the only person to get in touch.

    " Old audi quattro for sale has tax till end of month mot until april next year.great old car needs the brake pads done and body work it a bit tatty but has tow bar and drives a dream "
    1997 A4 Avant 110 TDi quattro
    1996 A4 Avant 110 TDi breaking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradderz_1988 View Post
    This is the only one i can see on there

    1998 AUDI A4 1.9 TDI QUATTRO GREEN | eBay

    You may not of found it as if you put lowest first theres a couple of sub 3k cars just after the last few cars at around 30k so it doesnt always put them in low to high !!
    That green one used to be one of my cars, i bought it with a broken cambelt so after 8x new valves, new PD black lifters, porting the head and a full new cambelt kit, it was running very, very well. It's had various suspension arms changed by me and the curent owner (adam) and was running sweet as a nut. Needs a new clutch really as it's a little high and the front wings suffer from the dreaded rust around the arches. He bought an v6 tdi estate hence why it's for sale ! He's done about 15k in it including a few trips to poland- very, very reliable car ! All that car needs is a 11mm pump, larger clutch, a bv43 turbocharger and larger nozzles and it will be pushing quite a bit of power ! This is how it looked when i sold it to him, it was on 150k 3 years ago...






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    I used to have a 1.9TDI Quattro Avant, R registration. I sold it in 2006 and it was still going strong until a week ago when the guy I sold it to phoned to say it needed a new rear subframe (original one was corroded - not galvanised I think) that was going to cost quite a lot and it meant he would probably scrap it. Got about 180k on it. Great car that got 50mpg.

  11. #10
    jbh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alibi View Post
    I used to have a 1.9TDI Quattro Avant, R registration. I sold it in 2006 and it was still going strong until a week ago when the guy I sold it to phoned to say it needed a new rear subframe (original one was corroded - not galvanised I think) that was going to cost quite a lot and it meant he would probably scrap it. Got about 180k on it. Great car that got 50mpg.
    where abouts is he?
    1997 A4 Avant 110 TDi quattro
    1996 A4 Avant 110 TDi breaking

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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    That how many left link should be accurate. only 800 or so acutally made!

    There were around 900 V6 TDI Quattros, 1100 TQS's made and 1300 S4's

    So probably amongst the rarest of Quattros!

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
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    jbh
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    That how many left link should be accurate. only 800 or so acutally made!

    There were around 900 V6 TDI Quattros, 1100 TQS's made and 1300 S4's

    So probably amongst the rarest of Quattros!
    thats surprised me.. I would have thought there would have been less s4's made.
    1997 A4 Avant 110 TDi quattro
    1996 A4 Avant 110 TDi breaking

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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    They made the S4 from '98 to 2001.

    The TQS was facelift only and the 1.9TDI Q was PFL only, so i guess each of those models was on sale for half as long as the S4 was.

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    And I've got both - TQS and 1.9TDI Q.

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    jbh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimokslis View Post
    And I've got both - TQS and 1.9TDI Q.
    How do you compare both? which one do you prefer?
    1997 A4 Avant 110 TDi quattro
    1996 A4 Avant 110 TDi breaking

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    I prefer TQS as its FL. Sadly, there where no 1.9TDI Q FL in the UK. The rest of Europe have them, even 1.9TDI PD Q.

    I am only for FL B5's, because:
    They look better,
    Interior headlining and lights are much better on FL, leather handbrake cover, etc...
    Electric boot release and you can release it with the key fob.

    1.9TDI Q has a 110bhp engine that is loved by almost everyone. I used to get at least 35mpg driving in London and with it seeing redline quite often. So it not that bad though.

    Things about TQS I do not like:
    Cruise control can not be retrofitted,
    Not much performance options with little budget.

    It's just my opinion, anyway.
    Can not to say much about driving experience as 1.9TDI Q is parked in a driveway for 12 months now and TQS is only two weeks on the road. But shouldn't be different apart one being diesel and another petrol as both are Quattro.
    I am driving 1.9 TDI PD 2WD everyday.

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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    ofcourse cruise can be retrofitted to a TQS, i had it on mine :P


    I think the TDI-Q would feel REALLY slow compared to the TQS. Audi raised the power on the TQS from 150 to 180 to offset the lard of the quattro system, and yet the TDI remained at 110hp.

    110hp in a 1500kg car is less power/weight ratio than a 1.0 Aygo!

    I suspect in reality thats why it was canned for the UK market, and they replaced it with the 2.5TDIQ

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
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    Do you have a link on how it's done? As far as I know, you need more than just a stalk, wires and vagcom.
    Some people say, that 180 bhp is not enough for Quattro, neither 200bhp is. But that's different for everyone. I like Quattro not for making a donuts on tarmac, but for independent rear suspension.
    And a question would be why did they produce a PD Q 115bhp in Germany/EU then?

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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Yeh, its a mechanical system, that uses a vacuum pump and a actuator thing on the throttle linkage, some pipework and wiring to the clutch and brake switches.

    Its doable though, i got all the bits from an A8, and made it all work with a little looking over wiring diagrams.


    I'm not saying xzy power its not enough for Quattro, but to have what is supposed to be a prestige saloon car, which is so slow your overtaken by a 1.2 corsa, theres a psycological issue there and buyers wouldnt like it. A TQS isnt fast, but its fast enough for the market segment. As to why they did it in europe? over there the weathers worse than ours and the benefits of 4wd are likely greater, so they offer a wider range of 4wd engine options. In the UK, quattros marketed as a upmarket addition, rather than a neccesity. Buying the upmarket model, and having it unable to out drag an Aygo, just simply wouldnt go down well.
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    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
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    jbh
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    yea the 110 has got 110 bhp as standard and 235nm of torque as standard which if im correct is the same amount of torque as the 180bhp 1.8t.
    once ive got my other ecu in mine it will have 145bhp and 295nm of torque so will be a bit more livelier than standard
    ive also sourced a set of 2.5 tdi injectors from the old straight 5 and have a turbo from a pd130 more or less free to go and take.
    this will all give mines a bit more of a kick up the rear and should be able to hold its own.
    the old 110 AFN engine suits me due to the miles we do it makes sense to have something thats a bit better on fuel. at the moment we've had it on the road just over a week and its done just shy of 1000 miles and its averaging around 45mpg so I cant argue with that.
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    1997 A4 Avant 110 TDi quattro
    1996 A4 Avant 110 TDi breaking

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbh View Post
    at the moment we've had it on the road just over a week and its done just shy of 1000 miles and its averaging around 45mpg so I cant argue with that.
    Git!!



    I'm liking the sound of bolting bits to the AFN more and more.

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    Scott, buy a TQS and enjoy life more...


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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy88 View Post
    Scott, buy a TQS and enjoy life more...
    Had them both and the 1.8Tqs feels very, very flat and needs ragging every day to make progress ! What i like about it was the way mine handled especially on Eibach springs and sports shocks ! However, my mate's 1.9tdi quattro sport was miles better on torque, feel and it handled sublime on Eibach springs and Bilstein b6 shock absorbers...
    1.8T needs loads of bits to increase power and mapping is quite an issues as they are drive by cable. The 1.9Tdi is very, very easy to upgrade with bolt on mods, only issue is the ECU needs chipping. Add race nozzles, a 11mm pump, bv43 turbo and a strong clutch and it will outrun a 1.8T whilst still returning 45Mpg average if not better ! I had all sorts of cars in my time and have played with many, many petrol cars, the feel from a tuned diesel might not be the same as a tweaked petrol but the feel of money left in your pocket every time you fill the tank makes it worth while !
    For starters, my v6 tdi will give many petrol cars a good run for the money yet still return 150 miles on £25 worth of regular diesel whilst being driven within and inch of it's life ! My b6 s4 is returning 10Mpg driven the same...different cars altogether but the diesel is much more of a q car !
    FOR SALE:
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    Keep your eyes peeled, i will be doing the green one that was on ebay a few weeks ago, bought it back from my mate. Already have a breathed on engine and rs4 clutch/single mass flywheel + H&R antiroll bars and sport suspension all round !
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  26. #25
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    You say the 1.8T needs "lots of bits" to upgrade the power, then provide a huge list of stuff the derv also needs to raise power... Even down to the same issues with tuning the ECU!

    Both engines essentially need similar amounts of work to produce any noticable gains from them. Both need turbos and injector changes. The derv requires pump mods, the 1.8T doesnt but the 1.8T probably needs other bits changed. Both likely need a clutch upgrade.

    In effect, you start with a blank slate on both cars, the money you'd spend getting the derv to 200 would probably see the 1.8T at close to 300.

    In reality it boils down to fuel consumption and power delivery.

    A friend of mine has recently had a hybrid installed on his PD130. Goes like **** off a shovel when driving it hard, but hes quite pissed off with it because its now got a hole in the torque band due the larger turbo exactly where you sit when driving around town. This means any time you try to give it a bit of go at say 1800rpm off a roundabout or something, which the old standard engine would have pulled smoothly away, you get nothing, because your below the boost threshold, then after mashing your foot further down in an attempt to get something to happen, you finally get far enough up the revs, the turbo finally spools up and produces all the boost in the universe and the engine produces 350lbft in one whack and lights the wheels up. Ofcourse exactly the same thing happens when tuning petrols, but the gearing and wider rev range means that your much less often down in the ranges where the engine is incapable of making boost. Petrol motors also make far more power when off boost for a given capacity, which means even when its not making any boost it still pulls half way acceptably.

    I'd much rather a tuned TQS than a tuned TDI.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
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  27. #26
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    Kev, i had 2x 1.8TQS, apart from the styling inside and handling, the engine did nothing for me- felt flat as a pancake at everything under 4000rpm's. On the other hand a rotary pump engine will rev nicely to 5k rpms with a very broad torque curve. As JBH stated above, the max torque of the 1.9Tdi is delivered at 1500rpms and tails off at 3200-3500 rpms. This means it's a very, very driveable motor on a day to day situation.

    My point was that 1.9 Tdi easily doubles the factory power without opening the engine with easily available mods and whilst doing that the fuel economy does not changes much- in some cases it does gets better.

    The difference between a rotary and a pd is the rotary revs longer and produces power in a much broader way- none of the pd can muster.

    As you mentioned above, a 1.8T will also double it's factory output but it will not do without issues. You will need a much larger turbo which means lag, it will need extra intercooling, and the tricky bit is the mapping- very few folk know how to map drive by cable car successfully !

    A diesel- on the other hand- it's only limited by the amount of fuel and boost you can get into the piston and there are many, many VNT/VGT turbos that can deliver 3 Bars of boost whith adeqvate spool. With the crude MSA 15 ECU, you only have a handful of timing/fueling maps to play with- even a tuning box will be able to handle the extra fueling. Pound per Bhp it's easier to tune a 1.8T but don't dismiss the derv- it's a rather tuneable engine as it is and (just like the 1.8T) it's been around for years so there are many, many mods available for it.

    To get 1.9Tdi to over 250 Bhp/450 Nm you need :

    race 520 nozzles £250
    BV43 turbo with billet compressor £250-300
    pd130 intake and boost pipes £50
    11mm pump (not really needed) £300
    EGR delete £50
    Sachs SRE clutch £300
    Chip tuning/remap £100-150
    pd 130 fuel pump £30-50
    fmic (optional) £100
    All the above are easily available 2nd hand from local scrap yards and can be obtained much cheaper as well, one of my mates bought his bv43 turbo off ebay for a score ! 200-250 Bhp in a b5 chassis makes for a very fun car to drive as you already know !
    FOR SALE:
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    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    In reality it boils down to fuel consumption and power delivery.

    A friend of mine has recently had a hybrid installed on his PD130. Goes like **** off a shovel when driving it hard, but hes quite pissed off with it because its now got a hole in the torque band due the larger turbo exactly where you sit when driving around town. This means any time you try to give it a bit of go at say 1800rpm off a roundabout or something, which the old standard engine would have pulled smoothly away, you get nothing, because your below the boost threshold, then after mashing your foot further down in an attempt to get something to happen, you finally get far enough up the revs, the turbo finally spools up and produces all the boost in the universe and the engine produces 350lbft in one whack and lights the wheels up. Ofcourse exactly the same thing happens when tuning petrols, but the gearing and wider rev range means that your much less often down in the ranges where the engine is incapable of making boost. Petrol motors also make far more power when off boost for a given capacity, which means even when its not making any boost it still pulls half way acceptably.

    I'd much rather a tuned TQS than a tuned TDI.
    The issue in your mates car is he went with a too big turbo for the volumetric efficiency of the engine and without supporting mods it's not going to get better. The map might also needs work as well + definately the N75 map needs work !

    Just to give you an example, my a6 tdi will piss all over on many cars turbo'ed or not (up to 3 litre) and will destroy anything standard in the 60 to 120 Mph (apart from a few twin turbo'ed porkers and motorbikes)! This is a 250 k motor with aerodynamics of a wardrobe and can still return 45 Mpg, cost under £500 a year to insure and can seat 5 in comfort and rides on 20" wheels ! It's what you will call a sleeper yet still a daily driver ! I also have a b6 s4 mapped to 370-380 Bhp and it does not feel the same- i choose to drive the diesel as it's such a good all rounder ! The a6 does 400 miles on a tank driven like a lunatic and the s4 does 150, it sounds good though !
    I don't want to start a "my willy is bigger than..." contest but a tweaked derv is a serious contender to a similar displacement petrol engine yet being designed with different scope in mind, one it's focused on performance, the other on economy !
    FOR SALE:
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  29. #28
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    You really think a standard BV43 can flow 250hp worth of air?

    From what i've seen, folk need to fit big GTB20 series turbos to get into that range of airflow.

    Darkside suggest a GTB2056VK will get you to around 250hp, but as you know thats a BIG turbo for a 1.9L TDI, and will be even laggier than the hybrid thing on my mates car simply due to its sheer size.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
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  30. #29
    6th Gear

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    A standard bv43 with blue tag will flow a little over 220 Bhp, can push 230 but it's a bit stressed. However the CR bv43 have a billet compressor wheel with extended tip technology and better bearings- they do flow a little bit more. Of course, one can fit a larger billet wheel and machine the housing to flow the required boost but i would use a gtb2056vl for 250Bhp reliable, it spools as quick as a GTB1756vk and is built much stronger: solid one piece CHRA + water cooling facility !

    Darkside kits have been designed around gtb2260vk which are cheap, good turbo's but a poor match for the 1.9Tdi engine. As i said, there is no replacement for displacement but- if lag is your thing- there are turbo's out there that can flow 400 Bhp worth of air without much lag- GT3576klnvr, ball bearing cartridge, ported shroud for less surge and twin scroll technology ! One crazy finish guy is running over 350 Bhp with a BV EFR turbo- slightly smaller than the gt35 ! They claim spool is adequate !

    I would use a gtb2060vklr- ball bearing/water cooled from the 320Cdi Blue efficiency Mercedes models, instant spool and potential for over 300Bhp on 2.0Tdi.

    I have a gtb2260vklr which i am getting it hybridized with a 71mm billet compressor wheel, i will let you know if i am lifting the heads or not- building a completely new engine for it with oversize pistons and new profiled cams ! Working on a new intake system and posibly dropping the lump into a b5 a4 tdi- much lighter for a start and less electronics to interfere with the power delivery !
    FOR SALE:
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    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  31. #30
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    The GTB2056's are really hard to find though AFAIK?

    The merc 2060 you mention also has weird flanges if i remember right, one turns back on itself or something?

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    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
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  32. #31
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    gtb2056vl are widely available from the d5 volvo 2.4 tdi, the gtb2060vklr have weird flanges however they are available as a kit from certain vendors which means they are welded onto a 1.9/2.0 Tdi 8 valve or 16v manifolds which make them more or less "plug and play". Also there are a few people who can machine a gtb2260vk housing to take a gtb2260vklr CHRA so they can fit on the tubular manifolds that Darkside and some other shops sell...
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

 

 

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