EM TuningChris Nott
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  1. #1
    boost-addict's Avatar
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    polybushing, which ones are best to replace

    hey guys

    once my clutch is sorted, just sent the flywheel of to a machine shop, im looking to fit powerflex bushes.

    but after looking at the prices and toting it all im im shocked at how much it actually costs.

    prices are from ebay using lowest price first

    is there any were cheaper. or were i can get it as a kit front/rear art a cheaper price?

    or can some one tell me the best ones to replace to get a nice positive drive?

    no ..........Description .............................Prt no ..................................Price

    FRONT

    1. Front Lower Shock Mount................pff3-201................................£61.13
    2. front tie rear bush..............................pff3-202............................£90.61
    3. front upper arm to chassis..............pff3-203.................................£37.31
    4. front anti roll bar .............................pff3-204(-25/27/29)..............£32.31
    7 front anti roll bar link ......................PFF3-213...............................£74.61
    11. front lower arm inner....................pff3-211.................................£67.24


    REAR BUSHES

    5. rear lower arm front bush ..............pfr3-205..................................£32.31
    6. rear lower arm rear bush .................pfr3-206................................£39.81
    7 front anti roll bar link ......................pff-213..................................£74.61
    8. rear upper arm outer .......................pfr3-208...............................£32.31
    9. rear upper arm inner .......................pfr3-209................................£74.61
    10. rear anti rollbar bush .....................pfr3-210(-15/16)....................£32.31




    Diag_2706__36917_zoom.jpg
    Last edited by boost-addict; 16th August 2013 at 23:51.

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  3. #2
    Bradderz_1988's Avatar
    Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    They 'did' have the full kits on ebay for the rear for £200 iirc

    theres the front kit on there - 400312155978

    try powerflex direct

    normal - Powerflex - Performance Polyurethane Bushes

    black series - Powerflex - Performance Polyurethane Bushes

    Message a few sellers on ebay who sells them individually they may be able to sorce the full kit front and rear thats around £500 though !!
    1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Sport - Volcano Black

    Mods - Frankenturbo F4 Kit - THS Decat - Milltek - ECS Crank Pulley - 034 Snub + Bracket/Gbox Mounts - 1Z/S2 Clutch + Flywheel - 007p - ICM + EVAP Delete - S4 B6 345mm Brakes - 300mm Rear Brakes - Goodridge Hoses - LCR Splitter -S4 Bumbers + Skirts/Mouldings - OEM Xenons - Apikol Diff mounts - Polytek'd Rear Diff Mount
    To do - F21 Upgrade - 3" Maf/Saab red Injectors
    WANTED : Cheap 02/52 Passat 1.8T AWT Manual

  4. #3
    Bradderz_1988's Avatar
    Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Sport - Volcano Black

    Mods - Frankenturbo F4 Kit - THS Decat - Milltek - ECS Crank Pulley - 034 Snub + Bracket/Gbox Mounts - 1Z/S2 Clutch + Flywheel - 007p - ICM + EVAP Delete - S4 B6 345mm Brakes - 300mm Rear Brakes - Goodridge Hoses - LCR Splitter -S4 Bumbers + Skirts/Mouldings - OEM Xenons - Apikol Diff mounts - Polytek'd Rear Diff Mount
    To do - F21 Upgrade - 3" Maf/Saab red Injectors
    WANTED : Cheap 02/52 Passat 1.8T AWT Manual

  5. #4
    boost-addict's Avatar
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    thanks bradderz

    i looked at the black series and find my ap coilovers to be quite bumpy already, i know polybushes do increase this but looking for a more positice drive more then any thing else

    im also unsure how far to take this as its not going on track, or at least not now but saw these

    Ultra Racing 4 Points Front Lower Brace Bar Audi A4 2000 LA4-450 | eBay
    Ultra Racing 4 Points Rear Lower Brace Bar Audi A4 2000 RL4-451 | eBay

    i emailed the seller and confirmed these fit the tqs

    am i best changing all of them or only particular ones? i guess £270 for the front and then same kinda price for the back wouldnt be that bad as i could split the cost on another month.

    or should i just replace with oem bushes and tiger seal the ones that have holes in them? heard this is a happy meduim from oem to polybush?

  6. #5
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Are the arms new? No point tarting around with knackered 10 year old arms imo, just replace them.

    I'd look at 034 motorsport control arms for the front and forget about polybushes.

    Not really sure what your trying to achieve with those brace bars, and i very much doubt the rear one will fit given it doesnt mention quattro anywhere.

    Spend your money on uprated subframe bushes if you want to stiffen things up more, but be warned, going too stiff is not always desirable for a road car.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  7. #6
    boost-addict's Avatar
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    Im not up for paying 034 stupid prices

    As said to get a more positive drive while also removing any little knocks i have. And also it means the car would feel nice and tight. Altho it does already. i know the rear feels a little rubbery on a tight hard turn.
    just want to be preparing for when i go hybrid or bt. Then after that would be brakes. So then id be set to strap a bigger turbo on knowing itll handle,stop and the clutch is up to standards.
    Thats why im asking should i change them all or just some? Or none at all and go fresh oem bushes and tiger seal were i can

    And no idea on the arms but nothing is bent and all look ok?

    Surely tho polybushing the whole car isnt a bad idea. I also want a thicker rear abr to reduce oversteer

    Those braces, they fit the quattro like i said. He confirmed directly with the supplier/manafacter

    All im trying to do is make it handle. No point putting a big turbo on the car then wondering why i couldnt stop or run out of road. Not that im going to drive that fast but eventually itll become a street/track car if and when my wife gets a licence. Which my car would become my car and not a family car!

  8. #7
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Your prepared to pay 300 quid for crappy bits of plastic to install into your existing arms, but arent prepared to pay £400 for a complete set of control arms from 034, with upgraded rubber bushes? Seems a bit obscure to me?

    The arms arent going to "look bent"... But they have balljoints in one end and these wear out. They usually last about 10 years or so, so its likely they'll be nearing the end of their life and probably already have some play in them. Hence installing new plastic bushes isnt going to help fix the broken balljoint on the other end of the arm... You can ofcourse spend £350ish on a nice set of new control arms, then another £300 on some bits of plastic to fit in one end... or you could just buy the 034 arms...

    Furthermore, polybushes dont act the same as rubber. Rubber is bonded to the bush sleeves and acts in every direction, polybushes are stiffer, but they arent bonded so they offer no rotational stiffness at all, and act very different to rubber when put under load. Personally i dont see them as a great idea, especially on something like the multilink front end on the B5.

    Personally i think the braces look ****. The subframe itself is a huge box section steel construct, i simply cant see how tacking on some small guage steel tube is going to do anything to it. All its going to do is reduce your ground clearance and waste your money.


    You say its going to become a "street/track" car, but what exactly does that mean? If it means its a road car that you might happen to do the odd track day in, then you treat it as a road car, and specify the suspension as such. Theres no point compromising 10 thousand miles of road driving every year for the sake of 3 track days. If however its a track car, will only ever be used as a track car, other than the odd trip here and there, then its a different story.

    The thing everyone overlooks is the definition of "handle". Folk want to make a car handle, so they dump it on its arse and make it rock hard. But that doesnt make it handle. It makes it FEEL like it handles, but in all likelyhood you've actually made it handle worse than stock, because the geometry is away to **** and the spring and damping rates are useless for anything other than billiard-table smooth roads.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  9. #8
    boost-addict's Avatar
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    I thought you ment control arms as in one arm. The front arms are 1 year old. The front isnt the problem. Infact neither is the rear, just want to get a fresh feel and best handling possible.

    Also my car iant decked but it has had a 4 wheel aligment and every factor is set correcly. Like i said it drives straight and foes round corners just over light bunps i get a little knocking. On the rear theres only one ball joint which i would have started by replacing those both sides. Which is were i thought why not upgrade too

  10. #9
    jcb
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    IMO polybushing was THE best mod I did to my car and the main reason I kept them all from the TQS

    kits are cheaper in the long run but without a doubt the front arm bushes transformed turn in and cornering
    the ability to load the tyres and suspension in a controllable way without the slop of OEM bushes makes it much more pointy and predictable.

    I bought the powerflex kit. extremely well made
    compared to the generic brands I bought when I poly'd my old Mk2 golf the price is in the materials
    stainless inserts, quality mouldings with no air bubbles etc, positive fitting together or two piece bushes

    I reused mine several times and got into the habit of removing the new OEM bushes and replacing them with my Powerflex ones.
    Only ones I never got round to doing were front subframe and engine/box ones

    the best handling I ever had my car was when I did the KWV3's, powerflexed, OEM brakes
    got a bit heavier in feel when I stuck the 8pots on
    sharpened up the rear no end when I solid bushed the rear subframe and poly'd the Rear diff (front and back)


    one thing is that the ball joints do wear out quicker
    but then at £300 a set every few years it is well worth it for the grin factor or watching more expensive and sportier cars fail to negotiate corners at the same speed!

  11. #10
    boost-addict's Avatar
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    so im getting two opionins here?

    and the 034 arms, how much better are the bushes, and how do they compare to polybush ones.

    the front arms are 1 year old and they were not audi ones but good quality ones.

  12. #11
    jcb
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    the 034 bushes that I bought for the front subframe and box (soupie has them on his TQS now) were 80shore IIRC

    can't comment on the arms from 034..but....are the 034 poly bushes in the arms reuseable?! bet they are not
    my polybushes on my arms are 6 years old and at least on their 3rd set of arms.

  13. #12
    jcb
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    nope!
    not reuseable
    once your ball joints die you are up for another set of 034 arms instead of a cheaper Meyle/lemforder OEM set and some powerflex refits



    powerflex come out by hand (stiff but a whack and they pop out)
    they also support the whole contact surface, not just where the metal sleeve is bolted in

  14. #13
    boost-addict's Avatar
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    polybushing, which ones are best to replace

    So is it worth it or just new genuine or quality replacements? Arms n bushes?

  15. #14
    Oranoco's Avatar
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    I poly Bushed the front of my A4 a year or so back and it made a good difference, I have out gunned a couple of Astra VXRs in the twisty stuff and a Honda S2000 on track. Not bad for a 4 door saloon.

    If your arms are in good nick I would go for it, reusing polybushes a number of times before they are dead is an attractive prospect.

    Life begins at 140mph
    Sell my Audi??? Kiss my rings!
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  16. #15
    jcb
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    even new OEM doesn't compare to the feel of 80shore poly at each corner

    for me the issue over OEM is the feel of loading the suspension before full turn in.
    given that one of the advantages of 4WD is carrying speed through corners I want to know when it is fully loaded and no longer moving and want that to happen as quickly as possible

    it was (and will be) confidence inspiring

 

 

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