Timing belt change

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adidasandy

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Going to remove the front of my car as I need to fit a timing belt, aux belt and tensioner along with fixing my H/L washers.
Normally I buy GATES belts and have done for years, is this recommended or not?
Also what else is best to change, obviously I will buy the kit which comes with rollers but is the water pump a thing change? have done with most cars but don't know about the Audi's?

Andy
 
Hi Andy,
just had the timing belt done on my TDi AFN engine '98 and the water pump is driven off a separate belt,
however some other engines are driven off cambelt...
depends what you got.

P)
 
I would go genuine audi all the way with the timing belt and parts.

I would change - Cambelt repair kit, Belt damper, Roller, Relay roller, Water pump, Water thermostat and seal, Aux belt tensioner, Aux belt and give everything a good check over while the front end is off.
 
Sounds like a job for a nice weekend soon. Thanks chaps, should have said what motor I have though. 2.7 V6 S4
 
Contitech do a kit with everything you need to do the timing belt bar the waterpump and thermostat. It comes with a new damper, relay arm and all the other moving parts, as well as new bolts for everything.

All the parts are made by the same companies that make the Audi bits, so theres no issue whatsoever with quality.

I got mine from All German Parts, and Jason supplied the waterpump and thermostat too. We didnt change the Aux belt or tensioner, but it was more that we simply forgot to order the bits than anything else!
 
Well this weekend is the timing belt change. Seems ok TBH from what I've read, got everything. This is the email I got from my lad at Audi.
£411.20 to pay inc vat inc the surcharge price

Belt kit , belt damper , belt lever , ac belt ? , anti freeze , water pump

Then when you bring the old genuine pump back you will get £48.00 back

This is the link I will be using if I get problems.

S4 Timing belt DIY - Audi Forums
 
have you got the crank holding pin and the cam setting bar? ie the tools to do the job.
from a person who's done this job many times, and could do it blindfolded (maybe an overstatement on the blindfolded bit.) i dont envy you doing this as a virgin!
 
read that guide, its not how id do it as it adds a good hour to job through not knowing what your doing. id never removed the whole front like that as its not nessasary.
also dont agree with not cracking off the cam pulleys off the cams. and actually using the tool youve bought to do the job! then struggling to get the belt on because of it. what a chump!

but then the guy writing that guide had obviously not done that job before and doesnt trust his capabilities...... but that neither have you, so he is obviously the guy to advice you! ive changed more than 40 on the 30v v6s so me telling you how to do it in 3 hours when you dont have the skills and experience i have is pretty pointless.
 
I have done many timing belts on many cars but never on this engine, I'm sure if I just take my time a double check everything it should be good to go. This is a second car for my which is a bonus as no pressure to get it done.
I have the cam tool but not the crank one.
 
Your bloke hasn't mentioned the thermostat and seal in that list. Do not do the job without them!

FWIW, I did the cambelt on my S4 last year. First time I've ever done one. I did have the correct tools, and I followed the link you've posted for guidance. I walt brave enough to undo the crank pulleys and don't even understand how that works, as there is a lot of tension in the valve springs. With the belt off, I had to move the crank locking tool to get to the water pump (i think, can't remember properly now), and shat myself as the two crank pulleys span round to different positions. Thankfully was able to just line them up again and hold then in place with the cam lock bar, couldn't have done it without.
Was relieved when I cranked the engine by hand to find it back at TDC after a couple of revolutions!

There's a guy over on AudiSRS who took his cambelt off his RS4 without the correct tools lsat week. From the Vagcom cam position logs he posted up afterwards, it was amazing he didn't lunch his engine. His timing was massively out. It only takes one out two teeth on the pulleys to be out...
 
this sort of ****e im about to write is the detail these guides are missing!!!!!!!!!!!

the cams on these dont spring to one side like that. when its timed up theres a natural dead spot.

the cam allignment bar across the front of the engine holds the cams in the correct position.
from memory........
timed up with the crank pin in, with the cambelt all still on, all the covers and aux belt pulleys etc off........ slot the bar in the pins on the diamond shaped bits of metal thats bolted to the front of both cam pulleys (if you cant quite do it cus the cams are slightly out.... this is why you do this procedure!! also it makes it sooooo much easier to put the new cambelt on.) undo the 24mm bolts and undo them say 4 turns at the most. get your puller.
BEARING BUSH GEAR PULLER SET INTERNAL EXTERNAL PULLERS | eBay
something like this....
take the alignment bar back off and slot the legs of the puller thru the pulley and the puller bolt on the center bolt of the cam pulley. tighten it up and the cam will pop off the camshaft and itll now spin freely on the end of the cam but the diamond bits of metal are still fixed in the slots on the cam. now do the other one with the puller.
slot the alignment bar back on to make sure its all lined up still, then take it off again. lever the tension off the tensioner and put the little pin in the damper. finger the bolt out of the o/s cam pulley and drop the cam pulley off.... the belt will now fall off with ease.
do what you have to replacing water pump, tensioner, thermostat etc.
when you come to refit the belt make sure its around the crank pulley correctly and lay it around the n/s cam pulley and water pump, doesnt matter if its taught between the crank and the pulley cus of course it now can freewheel independant of the cam.... lay it around the tensioner. then get the pulley you took off, slot it into the cambelt teeth and put into the end of the cam anywhere you like. put the diamond shaped bit of metal in the cut outs on the end of the cam and finger the bolt back in to withing 2-4ish turns of being tight now slot the bar back on the cams. pull the pin out of the damper let it tension up. leave the bar on to hold the cams and tighten up the n/s cam pulley then the o/s pulley. its 60-65nm.

sounds more work but it really isnt at all!
 
Last edited:
audi upgrades
Thanks MURRAN but it's all done.
TBH it was fairly easy, used the cam tool but NOT the crank tool. The hardest part was actually getting to the belt. I replaced everything (I hope)
Belt kit , belt damper , belt lever , ac belt and tensioner , anti freeze , water pump , thermostat and O ring.
Please I've done it because my N/S rocker cover is leaking so ordered both sides and replace them next weekend.
How I done timing belt.
Once everything out the way, use cam locking tool and ensure the crank is matched to it's mark. Started by placing the belt on the O/S cam then pulley then N/S cam, I removed the locking tool to turn N/S cam back half a tooth to get belt on then turned it clockwise and locked it tool again, once at crank I turned crank anti clockwise half tooth the back to it's mark thus giving me all the slack at the tensioner/damper, pulled the damper pin, removed locking tool and turned engine from crank several full revolutions and everything lined up the way it should. It's a good job TBH but very time consuming.

Andy
 
its horses for courses really which ever way you do it. theres pluses and negatives for both ways i guess.

glad you got it done tho! if its your first one, a big pat on the back from me! well done. :)
 
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TBH I don't think I would have tackled if I never read the info on here so thanks guys but 1 thing I won't be doing next time is removing the front end as there's no need, jus pull it forward and save hours of time.
Thanks again chaps.
Andy
 
Will do, it's in bits at the mo again as I need to replaced my rocker gaskets. So pleased thats all the oil leak was lol
 
its an 2.7 s4 not a 2.5tdi.
no need to check the timing dynamically with diagnostics.
 
No, but the ECU knows how far the cams are out of sync and you can view this in Vagcom. Its not like a diesel where you can adjust it, but its useful as a check regardless. If you've done the job bob on it will show 0 degrees. If you've ***** it up it'll be some larger value.

The aforementioned blokes RS4 was at -17degrees on one bank!
 
didnt know you could check each banks cam timing like that. hmmmm. interesting, i'll have to have a look next time im working on a 30v.

as he has not done the pulley cam reset or used the crank pin, id expect it to be slightly out. but only as out as it was before.
 
If all the marks line up like they're ment too then surely the timing is bang on no?
 
There are no marks from the factory, so your relying on some marks that some other mechanic has made, who may or may not have done it right.

Check it to be sure.
 
There are factory marks on the crank and casing plus I used the cam tool so everything is fine.
 
Did you slacken the cam pulley bolts off when doing the belt? Think the cam sprockets supposed to be free wheeling on those engines when installing the belt so it doesnt pull the crank timing out when tensioning the belt..always worth a timing check just to be sure :)
 
No I never slackened off the cam pulley bolts, it's done now anyway but thanks for all who helped with advise.

Andy
 
What harm is there in checking it with vagcom, it will take you about 3 minutes and you will then know its right.

If you did the job without slackening the pulleys, you'll find its probably wrong. The question then ofcourse is wrong by how much. Audi specify a tolerance of 4 degrees iirc.
 
Can't check it until the rocker covers have turned up but what I don't understand is why loosen the cam pulleys?
 
Ok I now undersatnd what your saying with the cam pulleys being loose after speaking to my Audi dealer. He did say I can lock the crank and place the cam locking tool in position then slacken the cam bolts slightly for the cams to sit in correct position as the tensioner will put them where they need to go then torque them back up but the only thing is I never got the correct torque settings.
Thanks for pointing this out Aragorn as TBH would never have known, like I said the car runs like it did but I may as well do it right whilst it's in bits (easy access).

Andy
 
murran said:
also dont agree with not cracking off the cam pulleys off the cams. and actually using the tool youve bought to do the job! then struggling to get the belt on because of it.
Click to expand...

^^^^^ soooo what i said in post 9 then. and told you how to do it in post 12 (granted youd already done the job by then anyway).
never mind, if it runs aswell as it did before then i really wouldnt worry too much.
 
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