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  1. #1
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    PPC £999 Challenge Build

    So i've been wanting to build a track car for a while, but the usual constraints of time and money have stopped me.

    I read PPC, and a friend and i were chatting and we reconned that we could build a car for the PPC 999 challenge, but build it well enough that it could be used as a good fun track car. That way we have a limited budget, and a "deadline" for completion.

    More info here on the challenge itself and the rules: Practical Performance Car (PPC) magazine, a monthly publication aimed at real car enthusiasts | ppc-p999-challenge

    Theres obviously a bit of banter between us as to who can build the quickest/best track car for the budget. Hes going to build a 2.0 Corsa, as hes had vauxhalls for years and likes them, and i decided i wanted something 4wd and being a B5 nut a B5 Quattro was the obvious choice!

    As some of you may know, we recently reshelled craigs S4 saloon into a facelift avant. This left us with a gutted S4 shell, which was fit for not much bar scrap. Then the thaught struck me that it would make the perfect base to the 999 project, so craig let me have the shell for helping him out with his reshell.

    I'll document the progress in this thread, as i go, but atm the general plan goes something like this:

    Buy a cheap MOT failure 1.8T FWD A4, and pull its engine, bumpers, brakes and whatever else i need, then sell off whatever i can from the donor to recoup money to spend elsewhere. The rules of the challenge state i'm allowed to make upto £250 from selling parts. I hope i can get a cheap A4 for less than £500, and if i can make £250 back then i'll have around 7-800 left to spend.

    Find a 5speed quattro box, prop and front shafts.

    Strip as much weight i can out of the car, i'm aiming for 1200kgs, or as close to there as i can get.

    Use the remainder of the budget to make the car go, stop and turn as best as i can manage!

    Some pics of how it stood when craig left in his new car:





    Part of the agreement with craig is i could have the shell, but any of the desireable S4 spec parts such as the leather interior, trim and bumpers etc he wanted back so he could sell them, some of these bits are still visible in the pics above, but obviously they will disappear as he manages to get them sold off. I'll hopefully be able to replace these parts with standard A4 bits from whatever donor car i find!

    I managed to spend some time on it at the weekend, removed the seats and hauled the carpet out, and started on removing the wiring harness for the car stereo.

    Some pics of the weekends progress:



    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


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  3. #2
    JtotheD's Avatar
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    sounds like a good plan fella, i'll be interested to see how this develops!
    S3 8L Ming Blue 273bhp & 294lbft h


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  4. #3
    Oranoco's Avatar
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    Drop Tsport a4 a shout as he just wiped a fox out with his fwd A4 so is getting shot. Engine is a good used AEB that ee fitted and blower is almost new

    Life begins at 140mph
    Sell my Audi??? Kiss my rings!
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  5. #4
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
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    Being an avid reader of PPC I remember the £999 challenge from last year and the year before. Remember the Saab 9000 did very well placing I think a close 3rd? In aero form its 225 bhp out the box and a £15 bleed valve takes it to 240 by upping the psi around 8. No ECU remap needed untill its bigger turbo time. Think I would defo buy one for 6-700 squid, strip every part out of her that essential and put on some good rubber. Job done. top 3 all day long! Good luck though matey, enjoy!
    IT COULD ALWAYS BE WORSE SO KEEP ON SMILING

  6. #5
    warren_S5's Avatar
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    Interesting thread, will be interested to see how it pans out.
    Audi S5 3.0V6T Coupe Black Edition

  7. #6
    ScottD3's Avatar
    I want your faulty electronics

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    Nice challenge. hope it goes well.
    Be nice to see it develop.

    Strip the hole loom out, apart from the engine loom and make a custom loom for the lights.
    That will save you a couple of KGs.
    Electric windows and glass.
    the inner skin of the boot and bonnet will save you some weight as well.

    I got some racer and drifter mates, I can ask them for a free/cheap bucket seats or any thing else you might need?

    New Car, New Thread: Scott's Akoya Silver A8
    Gone But Not Forgotten: Audrey's Build Thread

  8. #7
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    phoenix: yeh, its hard to judge though, as it really depends what turns up on the day. The winner this year was a MR2 with a V6 motor transplanted in. Oddly enough it didnt actually win the drag strip part of the challenge (came fourth i think with a 14.4sec pass) but it did so well on the handling course that the overall time got him first place. An impreza that ran 13.3 on the strip came second, but a fiat coupe that ran a 13.8 came 8th!

    As a result its not all about raw power. Its finding the balance between power and handling. Looking at this years results, i need to be in the very low 14's on the quarter if not touching 13s to get into the top 10 on the table, but a stripped 1200kg B5 will do ~14.0 with not much more than 200hp. The handling course is where it really counts, so i think i'm going to try and get a set of used/nearly dead R888's or A048's or similar trackday rubber, as this will hugely increase grip over some ditchfinders, and should be pretty cheap!

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  9. #8
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    So an update from the weekend.

    I decided to spend some time on the wiring loom in the S4 shell. I've ditched the central locking, airbags and electric windows, as well as the stereo, so i figured i may as well pull out all the wiring for those items.

    Started off on friday with the body loom, which was reasonably streight forward as most of it just unplugs and more or less lifts out once you've untangled it.

    That left the rear lighting, fuel tank wiring and ABS sensors going to the rear of the car.

    I then set about removing the dashboard, and the metal crossmember behind the dash, to get the dashboard harness out. Got the dash harness out, got comfy on the kitchen floor and set about unwrapping it and removing all the wires for the removed components. That took most of the day, and left me with a sore back and gluey adhesive mank everywhere.

    The weight savings werent as large as i'd expected looking at the huge pile of cable i'd removed, but a quick weigh showed around 6.5kgs of cable. Theres still a little bit more to come out, as i need to remove all of the aircon wiring from the engine bay harness, and also rewire the fan so its just a single stage relay switched affair. Also the door wiring looms are still fitted, so all in theres probably another couple of kilos to come out.

    Took a quick photo of the dash harness in its stripped down state:


    My search for a donor struck lucky in the middle of last week, when i spotted this on buy it now: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

    So i baught it, and had it delivered on Sunday.

    A quick look over the car and its as rough as expected for that money! One rear caliper is siezed, the body is battered and slightly annoyingly the engine was clacketing away as though it had no oil in it.

    I thaught i'd drop the oil, refill with some fresh mineral crap i had on the shelf and run it up to temperature and see if it quietened down. Except on draining the oil, after the inital gush, it was dripping out in clumps... Not good, clearly hasnt had an oil change in far too long, and is choked with sludge.

    After some pondering i hatched a plan, it needed a hardcore flush. I left the sludge dripping out into a drain pan and set off to the petrol station and bought a gallon of diesel. Put the drain plug back in and poured half a gallon of neat diesel into the engine, and left it to soak for a couple of hours while i had lunch and got the shopping in. Back from asda i drained out the diesel, which as expected was black as sin. I then refilled the sump with 1L of diesel and 2L of 15w40 mineral oil. I removed the oil filter, and was going to fit a fresh one, then noticed the used filter we'd removed from craigs S4 laying on the floor. Being in a pikey mood, i wiped it clean, filled it with fresh oil and screwed it on.

    I then fired the motor up, and ran it at 1800rpm for 10minutes. After about 7mins the lifters finally quietened down and the engine sounded pretty nice. The whole time i had vagcom on and was watching the status of the oil pressure switch, given the "oil" was piss thin.

    At 10mins i shut it off and drained it, then i fitted a new oil filter primed with fresh oil, and this time refilled with 500ml of diesel and 2.5L of engine oil. Fired it up again and ran it for another 10mins at 1800rpm. This time the engine was totally silent bar a bit of a clatter on initial startup. After 10mins i shut it off again and checked the oil color on the dipstick. Still golden

    So hopefully the engine will be fine. Ideally i need to get an oil pressure gauge on it and ensure the pressure is acceptable, but i'm happy that it went quiet, and that the oil stayed clean after the second flush! Will also need to check that the turbo isnt fubar.

    I think i'll do another change with just fresh clean oil, and run it up again to check the oil pressure and turbo before stripping the engine out, that way i know if i need to look at changing the oil pump etc when the engines out the car.

    Last edited by aragorn; 14th November 2011 at 10:16.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  10. #9
    6th Gear

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    Be good to see what weight you can get it down to. Being a base model fwd 1.8t mine will be one of the lightest starting weight models so i`d like to see what it can be shaved down to.

    Whats on the cards for the chassis/brake upgrades?

    Cactus green 8L S3 - B5 TIP + Jetex, Revised 007p, R32 rear ARB, AP Coilovers, Compbrake rear arms, Full Powerflexed dogbone.

  11. #10
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Just found this on the MOT database which typifies buying old cars unseen on ebay:

    Date of test:
    05/07/2007
    Certificate issued (Pass)
    Odometer reading:
    160,999 Miles

    Date of test:
    12/07/2010
    Certificate issued (Pass)
    Odometer reading:
    127,433 Miles

    Some closer investigation in the service history theres a receipt from "HDJones Auto Repairs" from the 3rd of april 2008 for a cambelt job, which shows the mileage as 167742, then another receipt from the same company on the 4th of april 2008, for some bottom arms, and the mileage is then noted as 116142 miles.

    So it lost 50k overnight Looking at the stuff i've got here, that happened two owners before the guy i baught it from though. I guess that means the cars done about 177k.

    Jason: i'm hoping for 1200kgs. I recon the Quattro system adds around 150kg tops. A chap over on SRS apparently had his S4 down to 1290kg, and thats with huge brakes, and the huge lump of an S4 engine and box nailed up front.

    As for chassis and brakes, will just have to see what i have the budget for. I suspect its going to end up on stock 288mm/240mm disks with some aggressive pads all round though, unless i can find some 312mm carriers that arent stupid money. Springs will be difficult, no off the shelf kit is going to work well due to the weight reduction, so i'll just have to cobble something together. I'll probably run two standard ARB's on the rear somehow too.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  12. #11
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    I know you dislike them but what about some cheap coilies and just lower it to around 30/40mm. Gotta be better than 170k standard dampers and whatever springs you find?

    Hmm i did look at using a front ARB on the rear some how but couldnt really figure out how i`d mount it. What about making a custom beam brace? Similar to the SRS/Obar the Americans used to use? I was thinking about getting one made when the Neuspeed RARB was still £300 but now its dropped to £200 i think i`ll just get one of those and see what its like.

    Tarox Strada pads are supposed to be on par with DS2500`s and are cheaper so could be worth looking at those with some ducting and a fluid change.

    Battery relocation to the boot will shift some weight from the front and doesnt cost much also. Might be worth doing if you`re sorting all the wiring and so on at the moment.

    Cactus green 8L S3 - B5 TIP + Jetex, Revised 007p, R32 rear ARB, AP Coilovers, Compbrake rear arms, Full Powerflexed dogbone.

  13. #12
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    For this, i'd be in about the cheap coilovers in an instant, unfortunately they're not available for quattros. Well they are, but they're ~£400, and i'm sure as damn not paying £400 for rubbish coilovers when the FWD versions from the same companies are £170!

    Quattro cars have independent suspension on the rear, and a proper ARB with drop links. I plan to make some brackets to allow me to mount another bar below the first one, and join them both to the drop link. I have a spare bar already anyway.

    I was looking at mintex M1155's, theyre just under £100 for the fronts and under 50 for the rears, and i think on par or slightly better than DS2500's

    Battery will be getting swapped for an 063 (small corsa spec thing) and will likely be going behind the passenger seat. That way the weights inside the wheelbase, and means i need a few meters less of heavy copper cable!

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  14. #13
    JtotheD's Avatar
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    This plan sounds more intrigueing the more i read!
    S3 8L Ming Blue 273bhp & 294lbft h


    Build/project thread
    check it out!


  15. #14
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    Forgot it was all going to be a quattro! That`ll be why im talking fwd haha. Thinking of the donar car too much and not the shell its going into.

    I`ve seen Saab owners piggybacking the rear ARBs with a good result so would be pretty cool if you managed it.

    Cactus green 8L S3 - B5 TIP + Jetex, Revised 007p, R32 rear ARB, AP Coilovers, Compbrake rear arms, Full Powerflexed dogbone.

  16. #15
    B5QUAT's Avatar
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    What a cool thread! Good luck with the build. Will be watching this with interest. That's a real bummer about the mileage clocking. There are some dodgy folk about.
    1999 B5 k04'd S4. Eibach coilovers, RS6 front brakes, RS4 Rears.

  17. #16
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
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    Thats very true Aragorn.......Renault 21 turbo, now theres a thought! A stripped out one with stock performance ran a 13.2 second quarter a few years ago (and when I say stripped out I mean bloody everthing!). This was in "quadra" guise. Renaults attempt at the quattro throne. Back in the day it was dupped "the french cosworth". I owned one for a year. Absolute bloody lightening! They are defo worth checking out if you havnt seen one, being extremely rare these days. However you can still pick one up for sub £1000.......The porkers doing nicel. I didnt actually end up purchasing that silver one as there was something amiss with the service history. Bought a midnight blue one instead for 20k. Have fun on the challenge buddy! You know what I actually have some half decent rubber I can send your way if you pay the courier cost. 225/40/18. For past services renedered of course mate..........

    Ollie




    http://21toc.com/forum.php
    Last edited by phoenixv6quattro; 19th November 2011 at 16:10.
    IT COULD ALWAYS BE WORSE SO KEEP ON SMILING

  18. #17
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Love this thread Kev,

    For brake pads, see if you can find some mintex 1177's, they're a race spec pad that's no longer made, I got mine SILLY cheap for my brembo calipers, well under £100, and they're incredible.

    As for track rubber, I just picked up SIX part worn yoko A048R's in 225/45/17 for £98 all in! the cheapest full set were £59. ebay can be a wonderful place at times! they would go straight onto a set of B5 S4 rims....
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  19. #18
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Yeh i believe if i'm patient and hold out for bargains i can build a pretty decent car within budget.

    I've not done much over the past couple of weeks, but a small update.

    My oil pressure guage arrived, so i ran the engine up to temperature and monitored the pressure. I got about 0.8bar at idle and 3.5bar at 3k. This is somewhat below spec, audi specify 1bar minimum at idle and 5bar minimum by 3k. I happened on ebay and discovered a 2000mile old used oil pump on there for £10, so i stuck a bid on and won it

    eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

    So when i pull the engine out i'll drop that in and hopefully that'll give me sensible pressure.

    A friend also happened to have a 1/2 used set of Ferodo DS2500's for the front calipers laying in his garage, so i bought them from him for 40quid!

    More ebay shopping discovered a guy with a pair of passenger side MK5 Golf GTI calipers/carriers. Realising the carriers fit my uprights and they're not handed, i made an offer of £30 for the lot. This will mean i can use 312mm front disks, which should help somewhat with fade! I might even stick the calipers back on and see if i can get a few quid back, as they're of no use to me!

    eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

    Coming along nicely

    I need to get the engine out of the donor, strip off any useful parts and get it scrapped, which will a) get it off my drive and give me some room back, and b) give me some cashflow from being able to sell the wheels and hopefully getting some scrap money for the shell.

    I'm also going to draw up a webpage with the budget and expenditure on it, so people can see whats been spent where and how the budget is going.
    Last edited by aragorn; 30th November 2011 at 11:08.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  20. #19
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Well dragging this back up from the mists of time with a bit of an update.

    The golf GTI calipers turned out not to be golf GTI carriers, they were just normal 288 golf ones, furthermore, the golf caliper tiself is different and the slider pins are offset, so they didnt work with the B5 calipers either. Ended up launching all the golf bits in the scrap pile, and fitting a set of B6 288 carriers, calipers, some used disks i had spare, and the DS2500's. Rear brakes are stock quattro rears, new disks and some ferodo premier pads for now. I suspect the brakes will be particularly woeful, but at this point i'd rather have a working car with **** brakes that i can revisit later!

    Engine and box is mounted, front and rear driveshafts are in.

    A lot of it was thrown together to enable me to move it as we've just moved house back to scotland. Somewhat usefully very near to knockhill race circuit!


    Jobs still to do:

    Install propshaft, and tighten up various suspension and drivetrain components properly.
    Fit exhaust, and probably make a decat downpipe for it.
    Sort out track wheels (my brother has them) and get them fitted instead of my winters its currently sitting on.
    Sort out some intercooling; it doesnt have the bracket for the stock 1.8T cooler, so i need to either get one of those, or nail in a FMIC.
    Finish wiring, some tidying up inside is required, battery needs relocated, finish engine loom, get ECU installed and paired with the immo.
    Fuel pump needs some o-rings that have swollen and wont go back on, once they're installed and the pumps back in the tank, i need to plumb in the fuel lines (they might need replaced as i caught them on the trailer and ripped them off the bottom of the car)
    Rear coilovers need adjusted to an even height (i dont have a spanner!)

    And i think thats about it. Once that lots done, it should run and drive.

    Its actually not that much, and TBH if i got a good day or two working on it i'd probably have most of it done!

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  21. #20
    Soupie69uk's Avatar
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    Nice one! Hopefully see this up at Knockhill sometime. Dont see many A4's on trackdays up there.

    Welcome back to Scotland too!
    A4 1.8T Quattro

  22. #21
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    Iam a pretty avid reader of PPC myself and have always loved to have a stab at this challenge, it looks great, its just choosing the right motor as you say, I was considering a SAAB myself then thought 4x4 maybe an early old impreza or like, it would have to be good quality car, I wouldnt be doing it in the likes of a Granada or Vectra or like, then I thought E30 325i.

    Also finding the space and the nicenesss of the neighboutrs as it would have to be built in my rear yard, they aint moaned about my recovery trucks yet so may be ok, maybe involve a couple as there are a few car nuts down my street plus I live in a semi rural area so noise wouldnt be a problem. Iam seriously giving good thought

  23. #22
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    So i fitted the fuel pump o-rings last week and got that nailed down. Checked out the fuel lines and it seems only the vent pipe was damaged, the two main lines are fine, so thats great news!

    Then discovered this:




    Drivers side sill, complete rusted out. And i thaught Audis didnt rust!! Have ordered a new sill off ebay, will have to get it welded in!

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  24. #23
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    How did you find the rust was it obvious or did you have to peal back the under seal?

  25. #24
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    underseal was bubbled up and had broken thru in a few small patches around the round holes, once i started poking the underseal all fell off in sheets. Underseal is really thick, probably 2-3mm thick! Not sure if its been accident damage or what, the floors pretty bashed and dented, looks like folk have been putting jacks in stupid places.

    Passenger side looks completely solid.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


 

 

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