JMB RetrofitsEM Tuning
Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. #1
    AndyC's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    716

    AP Brake kit - B5 S4 - POSSIBLE GROUP PURCHASE

    Hey Guys

    thinking of developing a decent brake kit for under Ł1000...

    345mm Discs
    AP calipers
    Adaptor Brakets
    hopefully fit under std 17" wheels.

    I will get it done it there are about 5 people who would like to join in.....

    anyone interested.?

    Andy
    there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!!

  2. # ADS
    ADS
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Global
    Posts
    Many
     
  3. #2
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    15,320
    TBH for that money i'd be looking at using Porsche Cayenne calipers and either the 345mm merc disks or theres a yank company (JHM) that makes a two piece rotor for the same caliper.

    B7 RS4 brakes are around the same money too.
    Last edited by aragorn; 9th January 2011 at 19:30.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC ÂŁ999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  4. #3
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
    staylowmovefast

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    wycombe
    Posts
    1,395
    He did say under a Ł1000. Could come in considerably lower! Besides AP are the best in the bizz. Kev, if you reply, please for the love of god don't have a baby or go all techy articaly on your reply. XXX
    IT COULD ALWAYS BE WORSE SO KEEP ON SMILING

  5. #4
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    15,320
    The Porsche calipers (6 piston brembos) are about 400quid for a pair, and bolt streight up to the S4 uprights.

    Then you can choose whether you want to use the cheap option of the merc disks or go for JHM two piece items.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC ÂŁ999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  6. #5
    AndyC's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    716
    its simply an idea.

    I have been trying to get a decent priced upgrade, I cant find anything in the breakers yards etc etc from a newer car.....

    this would be using the B6 S4 discs which are very inexpensive and pad choice would be massive. So its not just initial price its about ongoing.....
    there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!!

  7. #6
    N8
    N8's Avatar
    Kowalski Details

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Salford, Manchester
    Posts
    17,129

    My Social Networking

    Add N8 on Facebook Visit N8's Instagram Channel
    AP are epic epic brakes.

  8. #7
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
    staylowmovefast

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    wycombe
    Posts
    1,395
    Quote Originally Posted by N8 View Post
    AP are epic epic brakes.
    If there good enough for F1/RALLY/TOURING there good enough for anyone or anything with 2 or 4 wheels. Would prefer these over Brembos, even if it meant a couple of ton over.
    IT COULD ALWAYS BE WORSE SO KEEP ON SMILING

  9. #8
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    15,320
    There are two sides to every coin though.

    Most "race" calipers dont have any dust seals, so after a couple of years of road driving they end up knackered and need rebuilt. This isnt an issue in the race world, the calipers are probably overhauled after every race and fully cleaned etc, but that doesnt happen on a road car, and they dont see manky salt covered roads either.

    What would perhaps be a more viable option, would be improving the options available for the already used calipers, IE a cheaper disk setup for the Cayenne Brembos, or brackets to allow the 996GT3 4 pots to sit round the B6 S4 disks mentioned earlier.

    That way theres more choice, and i can choose how expensive i want to make the kit. I could buy some used porsche calipers, a set of solid S4 disks and the adaptor brackets if i wanted the budget option, or i could buy some fully reconditioned or new calipers, some nice 2 piece floating disks and the adaptor brackets if i wanted to splash out etc.

    Personally, if i was looking at a big brake kit, i'd be looking at basing it around either the B6 S4 disks Andy orginally mentioned, or the two piece disks from the VW Pheaton (although these need a bit of messing around to fit on their original bells)

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC ÂŁ999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  10. #9
    jcb
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    4,077
    even with a group buy I would be surprised if you can get AP kit for that little.

  11. #10
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,214
    A thousand quid is a lot of money...i bought my ATE power kit(4 pot calipers, 2 piece discs, brackets and bolts) for 300 quid brand new on ebay ! It was only 10 minutes away from me. I had to buy brake lines as they were missing from the kit and i just bought a new set of pads. Next i will price a set of rotors.
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  12. #11
    AndyC's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    716
    yes Ł1000 is alot of money...

    The AP calipers I was looking at would have dust seals.

    Suggestions are very welcome.....

    IT CAN be done for less than Ł1000, already priced it up with the designers and suppliers.
    there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!!

  13. #12
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    15,320
    Its also the sort of money that buys you a set of 8 piston brembos from a B7 RS4 that bolt streight up with 365mm disks giving a complete OEM solution...

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC ÂŁ999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  14. #13
    AndyC's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    716
    yea, except future discs are expensive
    there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!!

  15. #14
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    15,320
    Pheaton disks are about Ł150 each, not too bad i didnt think?

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC ÂŁ999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  16. #15
    AndyC's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    716
    B6 S4 discs are about Ł70 for the pair!!! ;-)
    there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!!

  17. #16
    IN 2 Deep's Avatar
    Hoonigan

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    379
    B7 RS4 calipers & those Porsche Cayenne calipers really are heavy and you will feel that extra mass, I considered both of those calipers for mine but once I had them in my hand and realised just how heavy they are I looked else where. Out of interest AndyC what are the piston sizes in those AP's?
    2000 Audi A4 B5 Quattro Sport - My build thread - Click
    2004 Volvo S60 D5 - Daily smoker & race car tow truck
    1993 Audi S2 ABY - Dead & buried
    1990 Audi Coupe 2.2E - Dead & buried

  18. #17
    AndyC's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    716
    not got that far yet.... would be matched to the M/C though
    there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!!

  19. #18
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
    staylowmovefast

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    wycombe
    Posts
    1,395
    And lets not forget you would need much larger wheels to accomodate 8 pistons! Now that would kick it up to well over a grand all in not forgetting the discs!
    IT COULD ALWAYS BE WORSE SO KEEP ON SMILING

  20. #19
    AndyC's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    716
    The idea is to make a GOOD performing kit and then keep ongoing servicing costs down...

    I wouldnt be happy paying out initially then having to pay out another Ł300 for discs in 12 months.... (or whatever)
    there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!!

  21. #20
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    15,320
    The Merc disks folk use with the cayenne calipers are probably similar money to the S4 ones.

    Ł300 for bells and rotors rather than solid disks seems a fair price to me? If you could make a 345mm bell and rotor replica of the B6 S4 disk for sensible money that would probably be a good buy. 2 piece disks handle a thrashing a LOT better than solid ones do.

    Weight is a fair shout, but then the stock S4 calipers are bloody huge cast iron things anyway, and when going up to a 345-360mm disk your always going to end up with a weight increase. You need a physically larger caliper to fit round the disk and that means more metal. The B7 RS4 setup comes with bells and rotors as standard however, which will save some weight over a traditional solid disk.

    I guess part of the issue is that everyones budget and requirements are slightly different, and where everyone draws the line ends up in different places.

    Perhaps if you posted some prices, we'd have a better idea of the cost:benefit ratio of the proposed kit?

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC ÂŁ999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  22. #21
    jcb
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    4,077
    I got RS7 B7 8pots for just over Ł800 discs and calipers. have been running them for probably 15k miles without any significant wear

    but they weigh more than the car and I totally agree, whilst the braking is phenomenal, proper retina wrenching stuff, they alter the feel of the car's handling significantly.
    When I ran coilovers, PS2's on 18"s with stock brakes the handling was at its best...I just couldnt stop in a hurry.
    Now I have good handling, much better than stock but I do miss that lighter feeling.

    out of interest what are the specs of the AP's? four pot Aluminium one piece calipers? If it is under a grand I would be interested, I could get that back flogging my 8 pots with the SS lines I have.

  23. #22
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    15,320
    JCB: why not fit some B6 alloy uprights?

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC ÂŁ999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  24. #23
    IN 2 Deep's Avatar
    Hoonigan

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    379
    Uprights are not rotational mass, heavy calipers & rotors are hard to offset. Those B7 two piece disks are not that light either as far as two piece disks go. Its a shame the B5 RS4 discs are so expensive because they are very very light as they have a fixed alloy centre section. ECS tuning do a B6 S4 two piece disc and these are very light, I have them on the front of my B5 but there also quite expensive. Hopefully one day carbon ceramic discs will become much cheaper as im told the weight saving makes a monumental difference in acceleration & handling, I was also told you will never wear them out, who knows how true that is.
    2000 Audi A4 B5 Quattro Sport - My build thread - Click
    2004 Volvo S60 D5 - Daily smoker & race car tow truck
    1993 Audi S2 ABY - Dead & buried
    1990 Audi Coupe 2.2E - Dead & buried

  25. #24
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    148
    i dont wish to rain on your parade but ap already do a brake kit for the s4 and it is nowhere near that cheap no prices on the website but have a look at one stockist AP Racing Kit - AUDI S4 Quattro Front 1998- 6 pot 330 mm disc 7.5x17 inch wheel

    however i can vouch for how good these are, i bought a set and was going to sell ( AudiSRS.com :: b5 ap 6 pot 330mm full brake kit ) but as no interest i fitted them, 6 pots, they are fantastic car stops so hard now, loads of pedal feel, very progressive, once bedded hard stops make seat belt hurt!

  26. #25
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
    staylowmovefast

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    wycombe
    Posts
    1,395
    Mate, if you can get a kit together for under a grand then fair play!
    IT COULD ALWAYS BE WORSE SO KEEP ON SMILING

  27. #26
    jcb
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    4,077
    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    JCB: why not fit some B6 alloy uprights?
    ha, on my list of things to do with this bloody car lowering the unsprung mass is at the bottom.
    sort suspension - check
    sort brakes - check
    sort fuelling - check
    sort cooling - check
    build a forged block with tubular vband mani and biggish turbo for 400bhp fun - check
    find time to fit the b@stard - fail........

  28. #27
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    15,320
    Quote Originally Posted by IN 2 Deep View Post
    Uprights are not rotational mass, heavy calipers & rotors are hard to offset. Those B7 two piece disks are not that light either as far as two piece disks go. Its a shame the B5 RS4 discs are so expensive because they are very very light as they have a fixed alloy centre section. ECS tuning do a B6 S4 two piece disc and these are very light, I have them on the front of my B5 but there also quite expensive. Hopefully one day carbon ceramic discs will become much cheaper as im told the weight saving makes a monumental difference in acceleration & handling, I was also told you will never wear them out, who knows how true that is.

    The disks may be rotational mass but the calipers arent, they're bolted to the upright, so saving weight on the upright will have the same effect as saving weight on the caliper. I'll defo be going alloy at some point, especially if your going to change to S4 uprights anyway.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC ÂŁ999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  29. #28
    AndyC's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by electricracer View Post
    i dont wish to rain on your parade but ap already do a brake kit for the s4 and it is nowhere near that cheap no prices on the website but have a look at one stockist AP Racing Kit - AUDI S4 Quattro Front 1998- 6 pot 330 mm disc 7.5x17 inch wheel

    however i can vouch for how good these are, i bought a set and was going to sell ( AudiSRS.com :: b5 ap 6 pot 330mm full brake kit ) but as no interest i fitted them, 6 pots, they are fantastic car stops so hard now, loads of pedal feel, very progressive, once bedded hard stops make seat belt hurt!
    Your missing the point

    using std discs (of some size), less expensive calipers etc etc

    keeps the overall purchase cost down and the long term costs down and has less development time involved as well....

    its simply looking at options rather than going "hi there is Ł1500 +++ thank you"...
    there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!!

  30. #29
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    148
    your right i did miss the point sorry. i thought because you mentioned ap calipers you would be using everything from ap,

    which calipers would you be using? as the ap kit for the s4 has the 6 pot calipers (expensive new), if you were trying to keep the prices down would you be going for smaller calipers ie4 pots, if so would they have enough piston area to give enough braking. as aragorn said porsche brembo 6 pots are about 400 and if bolt on no need for caliper brackets like the ones in the ap kit on mine so no cost for brackets




  31. #30
    AndyC's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    716
    cheers :-)

    looking at an AP 4Pot, the swept area will be fine...

    its mainly giving a light caliper, spreading the pressure over 4 pots, not two and a two sliders.

    MASSIVE pad choice (this is the main thing TBH)

    larger (maybe) disc...


    Honestly I am looking at other options as well for cost....
    there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!!

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO

Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO