slight loss in power....

[J45SON]

Hi Guy's,

I hope you can help. I have recently bought a B6 1.8T Quattro, which was advertised at 225BHP - however, i have had it on the RR and it only produced standard figures of around 165BHP.

Now my problem today is, is my clutch starting to slip? On full throttle, the car accellerates well to about 4000 RPM, then it seems to slow down, whilst the rev counter still carries on going right round to the limit. Inbetween 4000 & the limit, the car does pick up a bit and then slow down again - having never owned a petrol turbo before, it seems to me to be the clutch, but if anyone else has experienced this I'd be gratefull of any advice.

Also, how much is it to replace a clutch? My local dealer charges £80 + vat per hour - which doesn't sound like value to me, but then again I don't want problems in the future.

 

[dan_b]

Do you know who did the re-map to get to the claimed 225BHP?
Does your rev phenomenon happen in every gear?

I'd say it's unlikely to be a clutch, probably a boost problem.

 

[J45SON]

I have only had the car coming on a month now and I haven't had time to contact the previous owner. As I have a dispute going on with the garage I bought it from and now having to involve Trading Standards, it is getting difficult to get info. When I challenged the garage on the power claims, they said it was what the previous owner had told them - obviously here-say doesn't verify actual claim, this is why i am involving TS on one of the problems that I have found.

The RR I took it to gave the car 4 power runs and there was slight fluctuation in the power, but that was down to trying different tyre pressures. I have replaced 2 breather pipes on the manifold, as I wasn't happy with the way they looked and like I say, upto about 4000 RPM the car runs sweetly. Normal driving doesn't mean that I need to go above this rev, it's only on a special occasion that I put the foot down.

I have spoken to the parts dept of Stirling Audi and they are going to get back to me to give me ideas. I get on well with the parts guy so will hopefully use his experience to solve the problem.

 

[dan_b]

Do you have access to VAGCOM - would definitely be worth seeing if there are any error codes being thrown by the ECU as a starting point.

 

[J7USS]

Might be worth checking your Divertor vlave as I had similar symptoms.
Also the N75 Valve close by should be checked aswell.
When I changed both mine, My cars Boost came back as it should have been. Felt like I had it remap'd again!!!

 

[J45SON]

cheers mate, i'm a novice to this side of the force - can you advise me where the N75 valve is and what it does as well as the divertor valve?

 

[dan_b]

The N75 valve is the link in the chain between the positive boost pressure generated by the compression of the incoming air by the turbo and the wastegate valve; when your ecu sees the boost level it wants, it opens the N75, which then opens and controls the wastegate.

The wastegate is also known as the diverter valve, this is what actually physically vents off the excess exhaust pressure once the boost threshold is reached.

If you didn't have a wastegate, the boost pressure would continue to build and the engine would ultimately go BANG.

Does that help?

 

[J7USS]

cheers mate, i'm a novice to this side of the force - can you advise me where the N75 valve is and what it does as well as the divertor valve?

Dan_b has explained it as it is mate.
The N75 is a little fiddly to change, Its located down the front left side of your engine bay about mid level. I had to take my headlight out for easier access even though its still a pain. If you have small hands like a child then it would be pretty much easy. The divertor valve is next to it. all in all they took me couple of hours to change over, thats taking your time and checking all Pipes around that area aswell for loose fitment.

You can change these valves by going underneath but I didnt bother as my front is stoned hence the Jacking up wouldnt be safe.
If you got use of a set of ramps then its an Hrs Job!!

Ill see if I can dig some pics out...

 

[J7USS]

http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng70.shtml

Theres one I found...

 

[J45SON]

guy's, what can i say? many thanks for the advice. i have it booked into stirling audi on friday 7th - i am considering calling out the RAC to get an opinion just to ensure the engine doesn't go bang!! the whole situation is doing my head in.

 

[J7USS]

Friday 7th??? What, march...??
It does do your head in mate, Mine was like it for 2 weeks,I guess I was just hoping it would go away.

 

[J45SON]

Friday 7th??? What, march...??

well, i meant 11th jan - had a few beers tonight. i have googled N75 and there are a few posts on the seat cupra forum saying the same problem - just a case of getting audi to quote me on a new part, which i'll find out the cost tomorrow and a price for fitting - and go from there. i hope they don't charge anymore than £200 all-in. i would hope the diagnostic test will show this up.

cheers again - i'll let you all know the outcome tomorrow.

 

[J7USS]

Vagparts for your bits mate. Sure the N75 valve cost me £50 ish... have a check on their site.

 

[J45SON]

just off the phone to the parts dept at stirling audi - as usual, they don't hold it in stock so it is on order - almost £50 + vat. if this is not the problem, then they will send the part back and it wont cost me a penny!!

if it wasn't for you guy's i would no dounbt need to order the part on friday and wait for delivery then have to re-book the car in to get it done.



cheers, will let you know the outcome on friday.

 

[J7USS]

Thats good of them. They'll do the checking anyway so they'll find the problem. Just tell them not to spend all day looking and bill you the labour..gosh that would be pricey!!

Defo keep us posted!

 

[J45SON]

well, i dropped the car off tonight - asked them to ensure a full pressure check was done also. as it happens, i have managed to get some really good advice from the parts guy, peter and i met him in tesco last night (whilst making a last minute run to buy my wife's birthday card :icon_thumright: ). he said he would look out for the car being in and ensure it was looked after - no doubt that means about an extra 2 hours labour . lol

the workshop foreman is going to test drive the car first and in typical style, the valve started to work a bit better, so it better not work tomorrow as if i get it back on friday night and get the line "we couldn't find anything wrong with it" i'll crack up.



i did get a brand new 2.0 TDI avant though as a courtesy car, but to be honest, i miss the quattro already. the front wheels spin with no effort due to the torque, so i'd imagine front tyre ware is bad. it is the s-line, in red - looks really nice as i fancied a red A4, but didn't manage to get one in my price range. if the car is ********, then i'm going to ask the question.... can i trade it in for another, but perhaps a A4 tdi - 2.5 quattro - i think that would be sweet?

 

[J45SON]

so the car was in the garage today and audi called me to say the car was ready. i missed the call and when i picked up the message, there was no mention of cost though. when i called back, the service folk were either with someone or on the phone.

so the good news....
when i got there, i was told the car had been checked for a previous recall on the "plenum chamber grommet" which was replaced free of charge!!! very nice of them.

and now the bad news....
it is the clutch that has gone. without stripping everything down, it is more than likely to need the clutch as well as the flywheel. the strange thing is after driving the new car i got on loan from them, i now feel it slipping from take-off, however i never noticed it before. probably due to not driving an A4 for ages.
the next thing is the oil pressure check was ok, but they have advised replacing the pipe at a cost, see below.
i also have corroded rear discs, so when i change the pads next time, they are advising to change the discs, which i would do anyway... but not what i wanted to hear.

the costs they are quoting:

new clutch: £637.63 incl vat
clutch & flywheel: £1,160.77 incl vat
new breather pipes: £419.16 incl vat
rear discs & pads: £252.04

i am going to check prices with a4audi and hunters of linlithgow, does anyone have any better prices fro another place, or advice?

cheers
jason

 

[J7USS]

Jesus Christ,Thats Harsh!!!
Thats way over the top
Are thes prices including fitting?????
Why are they telling you to change the breather pipes?

Your best option is to source the parts yourself and get a Mechanic who knows what they are doing to do the Job. Well I would anyway..

 

[46TheDoctor]

Remember your 165bhp will be bhp at wheels, the quoted 225 bhp will be at flywheel, you will lose best part of 40bhp through 4wd drivechain anyhow, by the time you stop the clutch slip you wont be far wrong.

 

[J45SON]

Thats way over the top
Are thes prices including fitting?????
Why are they telling you to change the breather pipes?

that is the total price. i ahev spoken to Hunters of Linlithgow, who are Audi specialists and they would do the job at a discount at £1k. they buy the same parts as audi at the same price. they were amazed at how cheap i was getting quoted. so i called audi back and they confirmed that is the full price incl of labour etc.

with regards to the pipe, aparently it is a metal pipe with numerous smaller pipes connected to it, including the filter pipe. they suggested that this be replaced. i didn't ask too much about it as i wa smainly concerned about the clutch. if i decide to go ahead with it, i'll ask in detail.

if i were to source the parts myself, the only other place to go is euro carparts and tbh i can't be bothered saving a few quid if it were to give me problems. i know a mechanic who said he wouldn't touch it, but he has a mate who is audi trained so he is going to speak to him and get back to me. the parts are about £530 for the flywheel and about £200 for the clutch assembly, so even if someone took £200 for doing the job, it's not too far away from stealership prices - i get a better courtesy car and better warranty.


my other thought is trading the car in and buying a new one - perhaps a b7 - not sure yet - not made up my mind. will speak to trading standards first on monday for their advice. i'll keep you all updated.

 

[J45SON]

Remember your 165bhp will be bhp at wheels, the quoted 225 bhp will be at flywheel, you will lose best part of 40bhp through 4wd drivechain anyhow, by the time you stop the clutch slip you wont be far wrong.

the figures you get at 163bhp are at the fly - not the wheels, you are almost right, but believe me, the car doesn't have 225bhp anywhere on it.

 

[J45SON]

had a call earlier tonight from Andrew at A for Audi in clydebank - he says it is unlikely that i'll need a new flywheel, but he is going to test drive the car tomorrow and give his opinion, as he is sure all i'll need is a clutch.

will wait and see.

jason

 

[dan_b]

Hi Jason
Sounds like you're having a bad time of it here, good luck!

D

 

[J45SON]

Hi Jason
Sounds like you're having a bad time of it here, good luck!

D

cheers mate - i'll make up my mind tomorrow as to what i'm doing - either keeping it or trading it in.

 

[J7USS]

Like I said before mate, It does knock you for six when ***** like this happens to any of us,We've all been there.
Hang in there Jason,Dont jump.. :icon_thumright:

 

[46TheDoctor]

Jase i wasnt talking about the standard 163 flywheel hp, i was referring to the 165bhp you had it rolling roaded at mate, which would be at the wheels. Therefore you prolly lost 30-40 hp through drivetrain, but you being told its 225 hp will be flywheel ponies, a mate of mine has a 225 TT and i gotta say its *****, audi's 225hp is a pretty poor attemp compared to the likes of a 225bhp wrx scoob. You gotta put another 80-100 hp through an A4 to get a quick car. There soooo damn ****** heavy.

 

[J45SON]

Jase i wasnt talking about the standard 163 flywheel hp, i was referring to the 165bhp you had it rolling roaded at mate, which would be at the wheels. Therefore you prolly lost 30-40 hp through drivetrain, but you being told its 225 hp will be flywheel ponies, a mate of mine has a 225 TT and i gotta say its *****, audi's 225hp is a pretty poor attemp compared to the likes of a 225bhp wrx scoob. You gotta put another 80-100 hp through an A4 to get a quick car. There soooo damn ****** heavy.

hiya bud, the car had average 160BHP at the fly - the bhp at the wheels was less!! can't quite remember just now but once i get a minute to check i'll post it up. i know what you are meaning but the car was advertised at 225BHP which means at the fly - the car hasn't been re-mapped at all. but i intend to get it done soon though.