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  1. #1
    audipardner's Avatar
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    Bleeding Brakes!!

    Hi, think this is my first thread (eventually) but getting loads of useful info in my quest to turn my A4 sport into what it should be!!

    I have posted this on another forum, so apoligies to those who have seen before.

    Please bear with me on this one, dont mean to sound rude......

    My B6 2.0 went in for what was probably its first ever brake fluid change, poor thing and I'd asked the indy to do a flush too. Went to pick the car up and he said that the car's check Brake red warning light is permanently on after it gives its standard 3 beeps on ignition start up. It was never there before and the pads were new 2k ago. He said the fluids were all good, pads, even the ABS speed sensor was checked and he even tried to bridge the gap to the wires, all to no avail. Total head scratcher. He does know what he is doing, I can tell that from the plethora of S2/S4/RS6 he has queing up for engine work etc to be done! So he drained it again and repeated, carrying out differing methods of bleeding the system afterwards?? I only knew of one, which is pumping the brake peddle??!! To that end, how many different Bleeding procedures are there? I have since heard that there is also a machine that will do it all in a onner, to include the ABS (or something like that?)

    After doing quite a bit of in depth research on varying forums this is what I'm now left with as possible fault and repair action:
    1. Wire sensors - New pads?
    2. Low battery - new battery? Battery been checked and all OK
    3. Could the brake fluid ressie be knacked? Is that a new ressie or just a sensor needed? Could it be possible for an air pocket to be around the sensor making it think that its empty or below minimum?
    4. There has never been an ABS/ESP light on since the warning came on.
    5. Been told today that there is a sensor on the rear driver side caliper on some older models???

    I'm totally fubarred on this one. Like I said before, it was never there before the fluid change and flush was done. Could it have developed from the bleeding procedure?

    Feel like just taking it and getting new pads but the underlying fact is that this was never a problem until the flush was done. Should I have had to fork out more money because of this fault and subsequent unsuccessful correction??

    All I can think of is is that the sensor in the ressie has gone??? Do I have a brake switch which could be broken..And a Bomb type thingy too??...My power steering liquid isnt that far from empty though?? Does this have a factor on it? Maybe too much reading is sending me mad
    Sorry its a long one with loads of questions!! Hopefully someone out there can advise.

    Two months of Audi ownership and its doing my bleeding head in.

    Many thanks

    I J

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  3. #2
    arthurfuxake's Avatar
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    What are the VAG-COM error codes?
    53 A4 2.5TDi Quattro Sport 180 Tiptronic. Heated Buffalino leather, DVD Sat Nav RNS-E, TV, Bluetooth, 6 cd, BOSE, Colour DIS, Cruise Control, Auto lights and mirrors, Interior light pack, Heated mirrors.

  4. #3
    audipardner's Avatar
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    Hi, there are no codes whatsoever on the VAG - COM. All I can think of is how it has been bled.

    The other Audi Indy I spoke to two days ago said things about this guy and of which 1 is quite possibly true. Not going into detail about that one, but he did say that others have had similar probs when they've had there's done by him before??? Now dont know either of them from Adam. So not wanting to make assumptions or slanderous comment.

  5. #4
    1st Gear

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    Sounds like you will have to replace one or more of the brake pad sensors (inspect them).

    If there is no obvious contact, there may be a faulty sensor.

    Disconnect each in turn until the light goes out.
    Last edited by inigoj; 12th July 2007 at 12:37.

  6. #5
    Teutonic_Tamer's Avatar
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    Hmmm, I had a very similar prob to this on my last S4.

    It happened after I bled the brakes after cooking them on a track day. A Snap-On fault code reader couldn't even interrogate all the relevent modules, and a subsequent VAG-COM scan did throw some codes, but none relevent to the brakes.

    Flummoxed, I took it into the local stealer, and they cleared the Priority 1 DIS warning, and said it was a low brake fluid level. Now I'm 99% certain that the fluid never fell below the minimum, but maybe if the level gets near the minimum (whilst bleeding, or during normal use), even if it then gets topped up to the max, maybe the relevent ECU actually needs resetting ????

    Still not 100% sure on this issue!
    Sean - Independent Motor Vehicle Technician (retd)
    ------
    2007 Audi B7 (8EC) RS4 quattro saloon 4.2 FSI V8 32v (BNS) (with ceramic brakes ) - V-max = 9.8mpg @ 172 mph - WOW
    2006/7 VW A5 (1K) Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr 2.0T FSI (BWA) DSG, fully loaded, colour coded,
    1998/9 Honda CBR600FX - the blueberry trifle

    2003 Audi B6 (8E) S4 quattro saloon 4.2 V8 40v (BBK) 6sp man, fully loaded (gone, but not forgotten)

  7. #6
    audipardner's Avatar
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    Oh dear, how much would an ECU reset cost me?! Yes, well that's what i've been thinking; that the ECU has detected a drop in brake fluid whilst the bleed has been in progress. Could this only happen if the ignition was on during? Surely it would make sense not to have any power whatsoever going to it during a procedure like that??
    Thanks for the input guys

  8. #7
    Teutonic_Tamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audipardner
    Oh dear, how much would an ECU reset cost me?!
    I dunno. My local stealer did it FOC during the routine service.

    Quote Originally Posted by audipardner
    Yes, well that's what i've been thinking; that the ECU has detected a drop in brake fluid whilst the bleed has been in progress. Could this only happen if the ignition was on during?
    I think that was where I went wrong. I had the ignition on during the brake bleed, simply to use the low fluid light and DIS chime, more as a belt and braces back-up. My guess is that the ECU must have logged and abnormal/rapid drop in fluid level, and hence stored a permanent log in the relevent ECU.

    Unfortunately, not even the mighty VAG-COM can clear this - it has to be the main stealer 'puter only. They didn't tell me it was difficult for them to diagnose, so I presume this must be a fairly common occurance!

    Quote Originally Posted by audipardner
    Surely it would make sense not to have any power whatsoever going to it during a procedure like that??
    Thanks for the input guys
    Yup, in future, I'll be bleeding my brakes with the ignition off and the battery disconnected.
    Sean - Independent Motor Vehicle Technician (retd)
    ------
    2007 Audi B7 (8EC) RS4 quattro saloon 4.2 FSI V8 32v (BNS) (with ceramic brakes ) - V-max = 9.8mpg @ 172 mph - WOW
    2006/7 VW A5 (1K) Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr 2.0T FSI (BWA) DSG, fully loaded, colour coded,
    1998/9 Honda CBR600FX - the blueberry trifle

    2003 Audi B6 (8E) S4 quattro saloon 4.2 V8 40v (BBK) 6sp man, fully loaded (gone, but not forgotten)

  9. #8
    audipardner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutonic_Tamer
    I dunno. My local stealer did it FOC during the routine service.



    I think that was where I went wrong. I had the ignition on during the brake bleed, simply to use the low fluid light and DIS chime, more as a belt and braces back-up. My guess is that the ECU must have logged and abnormal/rapid drop in fluid level, and hence stored a permanent log in the relevent ECU.

    Yup, in future, I'll be bleeding my brakes with the ignition off and the battery disconnected.
    OK, Thanks. What does the low fluid chime and dis light have as a benefit knowing that the fluid is coming out anyway? And what do you mean as a back up. Sorry in total idjit mode now!!

  10. #9
    Teutonic_Tamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audipardner
    OK, Thanks. What does the low fluid chime and dis light have as a benefit knowing that the fluid is coming out anyway?
    Huh - when you change the brake fluid, you don't drain the system completely like you drain the oil from your sump. You just leave the existing fluid as is, but simply pump fresh fluid through the entire system - Audi recommend 250ml from each caliper, but I usually pump double that, just to make sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by audipardner
    And what do you mean as a back up. Sorry in total idjit mode now!!
    Righty, I use the "old fashioned" method of bleeding the brakes - using the 2-man method. Fill the master cylinder resevoir to the brim, pump about 15 full strokes of the pedal from a caliper, check the level, top up the level, move onto the next caliper, etc. If you "forget" to check the level in the master cylinder resevoir, then my back up method was to rely on the DIS/chime for the person pumping the brake pedal. I think we have now established that this might be the cause of the errant warnings though!
    Sean - Independent Motor Vehicle Technician (retd)
    ------
    2007 Audi B7 (8EC) RS4 quattro saloon 4.2 FSI V8 32v (BNS) (with ceramic brakes ) - V-max = 9.8mpg @ 172 mph - WOW
    2006/7 VW A5 (1K) Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr 2.0T FSI (BWA) DSG, fully loaded, colour coded,
    1998/9 Honda CBR600FX - the blueberry trifle

    2003 Audi B6 (8E) S4 quattro saloon 4.2 V8 40v (BBK) 6sp man, fully loaded (gone, but not forgotten)

  11. #10
    audipardner's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for all your input. Well, resigned myself to taking the car to Audi today. Very nice chap actually, only took 15 mins reducing me to tears!! They said the cheapest route I could go down first is replacing the brake sensor in the reservoir. But that would probably incur me additional cost of them partly bleeding the system ( ok i'll do that but not at your prices). I did ask if they could just do an ECU reset, but as the VAG COM hadnt come up with any errors, they said that it wouldnt be worth it as there wouldnt be an error to reset. Concluding that it was either a) Sensor probs, b) wiring signal from brakes to ABS sensor?? I'm sure thats what he said..it was after a night shift so head a bit groggy
    SO, to that end, and to prevent me paying even more money into it unnecessarily on this brake problem, (as i've got that money saved for the new maf/lambda problems/ head unit refurb /new rear speaker how easy is it to fit a new sensor, or do I need a complete new reservoir??
    Thanks in advance for any more valuable input!!

  12. #11
    audipardner's Avatar
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    Bleeding Brakes...RESOLVED!!!

    Hi all, well, thanks for all your input guys but thought I'd better let you know that I eventually got the problem sorted. Annoyingly though it is quite a common problem I was told, so spent an additional 133 for nothing when it first appeared and they still couldnt sort it- JOY!!

    Apparently its a magnetic brake switch?? that when the Indy was rubbing with a magnet it was intermittently working??? Either way, a new part was 7.50 and doing a couple of other things to the car incurred me an hours labour - SORTED!! No more Blackpool illuminations - well, not till Sep anyway!!
    http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/e...7/DSC02810.jpg

    http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/e...7/DSC02809.jpg

    its got TRW and PA6 on it with 32662510 on the underside if anyone can elaborate any more on it.

    Ta

 

 

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