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Thread: Help car just died!

  1. #1
    DanV8's Avatar
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    Help car just died!

    ok yesterday, morning I get in the car start up, drive literally 1/4 a mile up the road turn a corner and it dies. No warning lights at all, turns over with ease.

    Educated guess is it's fuel related, has got 3/4 of a tank, cannot hear fuel pump whine when ignition on, and after pulling of the fuel return pipe under the bonnet its as dry as a bone. nothing when turning over. Have checked fuel pump fuse and is fine.

    Anyone know where the fuel pump relay is and what number it is, so I can check that next?

    Anyone else had this and thinks, yep I know what it is and can share with me?

    car is 2005 audi s4 cabriolet, just done 40487 miles.

    Many thanks
    Dan
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

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  3. #2
    bez101's Avatar
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    iv had a couple of pumps fail in my time
    and they dont give warning just die
    no idea where the realy is or even if they have 1
    have you got access to vcds ?

  4. #3
    DanV8's Avatar
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    no got no laptop or software.
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

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    Spoke to audi dealership they say it has a relay, but unless I can locate it they cant quote, even with my chassis detail etc they were unsure which or where it was.
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

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    Have you got a multimeter? Check if you have power to the fuel pump.

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    lift the rear bench seat and underneath there are two cover plates with 3 screws in
    remove the cover plates and the twin fuel pumps are underneath

    take the connections off one by one clean them (they sometimes go green and discoloured ) , if you have a multimeter handy or power probe check to see you have both
    a live and earth to the pump
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
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    where are you based dan ?
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  9. #8
    DanV8's Avatar
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    Great Yarmouth, Norfolk. The cars in the garage now, just didn't have the time to look at it what with work and everything so fingers crossed its not too bad and they can sort it Monday for me, till then cruising in the wife's micro machine 206cc..lol
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

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    Doesn't the s4 only have one fuel pump, and it's on the passenger side rear here in the US, the other side is the sender
    EBONY PEARL 2003 1.8T SPORT GMBH 190 AVANT 19" GALLARDO,S S4 SILVER SILK NAPPA HEATED RECARO,S MATT ALI MIRRORS,O.CT INTAKE PIPE, B7 DTM VOTEX SKIRTS, HYPERBOOST HX DIVERTER VALVE, RS4 DOORCARDS+TRIGGERS, AUTO-DIMMING REAR VIEW MIRROR, RS4 BRUSHED ALI TRIM, RS4 START BUTTON, PIPERCROSS PANEL FILTER, RIEGER INFINITY FRONT BUMPER:: NOW REMAP,D TO 240 ISH BHP OMG WHAT A DIFFERENCE

  11. #10
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    Spoken to the garage this morning, so far they found no power to the fuse, (like i had already told them). They found out that the relay is mounted underneath the ecu (there words not mine) and thats where they are at, trying to get to the relay.

    Thinking i should have just bitten the bullet and had it delivered straight to the dealership! As i think that's where its going to end up.
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  12. #11
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    Well, the garage dealing with my car has thrown in the towel, They have replaced the fuel pump relay with a new oem one, Performed various checks, manually tested the pumps and all working, but still can not get a live feed to the fuse box and get pumps to run with ignition? They even phoned an Audi dealership to ask if there was something they were missing, but all they got as a response is, "we do not divulge any repair information to anyone who isnt a Audi trained and qualified" (which i can understand, although a little harsh)
    So today its being trailerd in to the stealership, for diagnostics and repair. Which in hindsight, i should of had done in the first place.
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

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    I bought my car from Great Yarmouth

    Looking at one of the invoices it had work done at
    Contact Us

    If at audi it must be costing a lot on diagnostics
    Researching and potentially looking for a nice S4 B6
    Previous cars: Modded Toyota Celica 1.8 Vvtli, modded mk1 TT, standard mkv r32 dsg
    Current: family wagon diesel

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    I bought my car from Great Yarmouth

    Looking at one of the invoices it had work done at
    Contact Us
    Autotech Car Service | MOT Testing | Audi | Volkswagen | Seat | Skoda | LPG Conversion in Norwich, Norfolk.
    If at audi it must be costing a lot on diagnostics
    Researching and potentially looking for a nice S4 B6
    Previous cars: Modded Toyota Celica 1.8 Vvtli, modded mk1 TT, standard mkv r32 dsg
    Current: family wagon diesel

  15. #14
    DanV8's Avatar
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    Diagnostic is £99.88 at Norwich Audi. But if they do the repairs (which they are as i cant move the bloody thing) it then becomes part of the bill not as an extra if you know what i mean. So they said anyway, its still going to cost a small fortune.
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

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    So what needs doing?
    Researching and potentially looking for a nice S4 B6
    Previous cars: Modded Toyota Celica 1.8 Vvtli, modded mk1 TT, standard mkv r32 dsg
    Current: family wagon diesel

  17. #16
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    Don't know yet,
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  18. #17
    DanV8's Avatar
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    Well, they dealership received the car on Wednesday at 16.45,! they basically pushed it off the low loader in to the workshop, put a jumper pack on it and it fired up!! They spent all day on it yesturday, checking things over, connections, wiring etc and could find absolutely nothing wrong, The only thing in the memory of the ecu was something about communications lost! and the technician said that was almost certainly down to the the the battery had been run flat by the constant turning over. So i pick the car up today when i finish work, none the wiser but with it all up and running again. (cant wait to see the bill)!
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

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    Good news but yeah audi bill will be scary

    So a new battery for precaution?
    Researching and potentially looking for a nice S4 B6
    Previous cars: Modded Toyota Celica 1.8 Vvtli, modded mk1 TT, standard mkv r32 dsg
    Current: family wagon diesel

  20. #19
    DanV8's Avatar
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    Brand new one fitted in November, the only reason it went flat was the moron who originally turned up when i first called recovery just basically kept it turning over until the turn over speed began to gradually die, even though i had told him twice to stop! as it wasn't going to start with no fuel getting through. But hey, what do i know!!..lol
    Its like the first garage it went to, they fitted the new fuel pump relay, but then couldn't get a live to the fuel pump fuse, i asked them if they were turning it over and they said no just ignition on! I told them to turn it over because the engine had to be turning over in order for the cps to send the signal to the ecu so then that in turn would call for the fuel and there for put out a live through the various channels etc, but no, they ignored me as well, there loss as they were unable to return the relay which cost them nearly £50 so they told me.
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

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    Complete lack of product familiarity.......

    I can confidently say that people on this forum have saved me hundreds of pounds by simply knowing what they're talking about.
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  22. #21
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    Glad it is back on the road mate.
    Mike

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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakPak View Post
    Complete lack of product familiarity.......

    I can confidently say that people on this forum have saved me hundreds of pounds by simply knowing what they're talking about.

    Definitely, I'm a mechanical breakdown engineer by trade, i basically fix machines that break as long as its not electrical, so I'm pretty confident at disassembling and reassembling. But that doesn't make me a mechanic!, but it does mean i can read and understand guides! .lol, and the information i have read all over various forums for this and previous cars and have has saved me thousands, so paying the odd time for something like this isn't really so bad!, although i havnt actually had the final bill yet, my attitude may change slightly..lol
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  24. #23
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    Ok quick uipdate STILL NOT SORTED!!,

    The dealership had the car for 5 days, and couldn't find a fault, and to my surprise they said as they couldnt diagnose a fault and definitely couldn't repair anything and there had been 6.5 hrs spent on researching the car there final bill was £0! So i was over the moon, but they did recommend my rear pads to be replaced as during a health check they noticed they were quite worn approximately 80% so quoted me and i said to go ahead which was the plan for Saturday morning and then i collect the car. Well 10 mins before im due to collect the car i get a phone call to say that the car wont start!! and after taking the computer outside the fault they were getting was ECU communication failure, (battery 100% charged), so they pushed the car in to the garage where they proceeded to to test everything for voltage supplies and everything was showing as fine, so they turned it over and it fired up fine!!!!
    So they're now looking at 2 possibilities
    1) ecu control relay, which they are replacing today at £150 because they think that it is sticking and there for not sending the voltage through to the ecu hence why they keep getting the communication failure, due to no power supply when the ignition is turned on.

    Failing that,
    2) ECU need replacing!, but no price was quoted for that!.... Yet.
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  25. #24
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    Keep us informed.
    If the ECU requires replacing, it may be worth buying a 2nd hand unit from eBay (by searching the part number) and having someone local with VCDS code it (will be a damn sight cheaper than a new ECU from the dealers)

    To be honest, to me it sounds like it could be the first possibility - if the ECU were to be faulty, I would expect it to die and not come back online.

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  26. #25
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    That was my thoughts as well, i know my bro in law had and ecu die in his 300c, and once that went it went! So hoping it is just the relay suffering pmt or something, still an expense that couldn't have come at a worse time, but then hey, is there ever a good time?!

    I already mentioned about a 2nd hand unit as i'm dreading what a new one will set me back!, and the dealership basically said in not so many words, that they wouldn't fit a 2nd hand unit! so i would have to get it back home myself and then try to find someone who could do it.

    Fingers crossed, new relay is in today sometime, then they want the car for further testing another 24 hrs, Still at least i'm more than happy with my courtesy car at the moment. (thanks Mum)..lol

    Last edited by DanV8; 15th April 2014 at 15:15.
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    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  27. #26
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    Did find these people, don't suppose anyone had any dealings with them?

    AUDI QUATTRO 4.2 ECU (ENGINE MANAGEMENT) - Part No: 301799 / 0261S02165
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  28. #27
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    Does dealer have vagcom?

    If not get someone in the know how
    Vagwerkes are good I hear
    Researching and potentially looking for a nice S4 B6
    Previous cars: Modded Toyota Celica 1.8 Vvtli, modded mk1 TT, standard mkv r32 dsg
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    dan

    you need to do a little research just in case it is the ecu that is faulty
    i cannot be 100% but i seem to remember someone having a similar issue and swapping out the ecu
    even though the ecu was exactly the same code it was not straight forward as there is something to do with the immobiliser
    in the ecu itself
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
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  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dualmono21 View Post
    dan

    you need to do a little research just in case it is the ecu that is faulty
    i cannot be 100% but i seem to remember someone having a similar issue and swapping out the ecu
    even though the ecu was exactly the same code it was not straight forward as there is something to do with the immobiliser
    in the ecu itself
    Isn't it the case that the Immobiliser is actually in the back of the speedo cluster? You're right tho - the ecu will need coding to the car, and the immobiliser is a bit*h to do as IIRC the VAS diagnostics the dealer uses makes a call back to VAG group in Germant to get the 7 digit code to recode the immobiliser - and I'm pretty sure that even if the part numbers are the same the automatic cars have different maps.

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    if i remember rightly nick it was something else in the immobiliser that stops the new ecu being coded to the car
    i have tried finding the thread but no luck so far
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  32. #31
    DanV8's Avatar
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    Well, So far so good (touching wood). The new voltage supply relay has been fitted and every time they've tested it, its showing a healthy power supply and no starting issues. As for the ecu, the Audi dealers where its at, would fit it and code it etc, they just wouldn't entertain me getting a second hand unit! They were fine with me getting my one repaired or me supplying a new unit, only they said obviously it wouldn't be covered by there warranty on parts, but then the company i listed above, gives a life time warranty. Fingers crossed it won't need to go that far. Only thing now is finding the time to go and collect it, what with hours I'm working etc, i don't think i will get the time to collect it until Saturday, they said at least it will give them plenty of time testing it starting etc.. and fit my rear brake pads..
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  33. #32
    DanV8's Avatar
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    Dualmono21, I see in your signature you have had your S4 remapped!, May i ask if it made much of a difference?
    I had both my Subarus remapped and it made a huge impact with them being Turbo's, but don't know how it would be on an NA motor?
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

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    the secret to normally aspirated tuning is getting the car to breathe properly
    a chip or tune in itself wont do hardly anything
    BUT... combine it with a good free flowing exhaust system and remove the pre cats and it transforms the car into a differant animal

    the biggest improvement was made by removing the pre cats
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
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  35. #34
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    Do you know what sort of figures your getting power wise etc, just trying to weigh up the if its worth the expense or not.
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  36. #35
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    Dan we had a b6 s4 re mapped last summer. It's made a huge difference but now I'm so used to it I forget it's done until I drive our b8 s4 which definitely needs to be re mapped & reminds me how quick our b6s4 is! Defiantly the best mod I have done do far :-)

    Fingers crossed yr cars fixed too!

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    with the right bolt on bits and a good exhaust
    its possible to get over 400bhp at the crank from it with a good map
    mine hasnt been on the rollers but it has got the correct bits and a good map
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  38. #37
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    Another update, picked car up from dealership, with confirmation the car had undergone extensive testing and everything was 100%. The £700 bill was paid and keys returned. All was well, well it was for 5 miles! Then the dashboard lit up like an Xmas tree warning lights, traction control, speed dropped down from 70 to 55, no power and slowly died!!!!! , do phone call back to Audi, who promptly sent out 2 technitiens to retreave it, leaving me and the wife luckily in still with the range rover to carry on our journey, so the plot thickens!
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  39. #38
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    Still no joy, Frustrating to say the least!. If a dealership cant fix it how is anyone else supposed to.
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

  40. #39
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    Fingers crossed.. I feel yr pain! So frustrating!

  41. #40
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    OK just had confirmation ECU is dead or dying!

    3 options,
    New audi part £947 5-8 days currently on back order, unknown warranty.
    New non oem £410 2-3 days need old unit for exchange > lifetime warranty
    Repair mine, £310 5-7 days tunr around once received > lifetime warranty, (also has been noted that this unit has had some sort of repair in the past due to excess sealant, as seen on the casing from Audi technician).

    What would you guys do?
    "Speed Never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson

 

 
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