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Thread: Dyno Dissapointment!

  1. #1
    AlexGSi2000's Avatar
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    Dyno Dissapointment!

    Took the A4 on the dyno for the first time today.
    A local tuners were holding a club day, so went along.

    The car made a whopping 176bhp & 291ft/lb - its supposedly 180bhp standard!

    The worst part is, its been re-mapped. The guy stated another 2.5 had made 225bhp from the same map.
    The car did feel abit more "alive" once it had been done, but after running a few logs earlier, the pedal is requesting 40% throttle after 10% pedal travel - so looks like the values for the pedal have just been upped! - scandalous.

    The car runs perfectly (cams replaced last year) - boost and maf values are all consistent.
    Im guessing all the AKE engines are all 180's too? - so not like I've got a 160 engine.

    Will be getting the map changed asap! - anyone have any recommendations?

    Cheers.

    2002 A4 Avant Quattro Sport 2.5 V6 TDi - 219Bhp - Votex
    BCS Automotive Turbo-Back - Remap -
    19" RS6 Reps - B6 S4 Brakes - Symphony II+
    - Weitec GT
    - 2001 Honda CBR600-FS1 -

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  3. #2
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    Stock turbo and injectors won't flow past 210Bhp, there are sneaky fuel limiters so the IQ is limited to about 45-50Mg/stoke...
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

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    wesmaster's Avatar
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    Who remapped it? Even my 155bhp made over 190 on the dyno with stock turbo/nozzles.

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    AlexGSi2000's Avatar
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    Would be nice to have anthing close or over 200bhp Chris - reckon thats acheivable with a turbo-back free flow exhaust? (and a decent map!)

    The company who mapped it was the "remap wizard" based in Wigan - he is franchised and basically uses "file maps"

    A lad local to me maps for EVO chips - he is pulling my existing map tonight to take a look over it.
    Hopefully in a few days I will be running abit more power! - im fairly exited to be honsest, but still a little peeved with my existing map.
    I will me calling the company tomorrow to see what they have to say about it.
    neilA4 likes this.

    2002 A4 Avant Quattro Sport 2.5 V6 TDi - 219Bhp - Votex
    BCS Automotive Turbo-Back - Remap -
    19" RS6 Reps - B6 S4 Brakes - Symphony II+
    - Weitec GT
    - 2001 Honda CBR600-FS1 -

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    Free flow exhaust will get the turbo "on boost" quicker but it won't do that much for the power- the pipes are rather small but the cats/precat are rather restrictive ! As Wes said above, the mapper must have been a con artist, the v6 tdi are rather hard to tune and with so many parallel maps they are rather hard to tune properly ! Modifying the driver's wish is one way to do it !
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

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    Love you signature Alex !
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  8. #7
    AlexGSi2000's Avatar
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    Dyno Dissapointment!

    Had the map pulled off and briefly looked over earlier. There wasn't a standard file to compare it to but he stated it was pretty much standard and flat, the areas changed were "odd".

    File is going to be looked at tomorrow and will hopefully be back on the car shortly with some decent changes made.

    Current results:


    2002 A4 Avant Quattro Sport 2.5 V6 TDi - 219Bhp - Votex
    BCS Automotive Turbo-Back - Remap -
    19" RS6 Reps - B6 S4 Brakes - Symphony II+
    - Weitec GT
    - 2001 Honda CBR600-FS1 -

  9. #8
    EssexAvantii's Avatar
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    feeling your pain, hopefully you will get it sorted soon. Be interested what the guy who did the map has to say! i learned years ago when dealing with bike engines that there is no substitute for dyno time, before and after as its the only way to make sure you get what you pay for. On the plus side only 4 ponys gone so no major damage done

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    Alex, do you have a copy of the file ? I would love to look at the map myself...
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

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    Willenium's Avatar
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    Interesting to see this result from a map. I've had someone urging me to have mine mapped but I've held off as I had heard from a local source that the 2.5TDI isn't capable of taking more than 210bhp reliably. Any truth in that?

    As she stands the only mod I've made is taken a weird meshed frame out of the top airbox intake. Essentially it should be getting air more freely now. Made exactly 182bhp on the dyno last September.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willenium View Post
    Interesting to see this result from a map. I've had someone urging me to have mine mapped but I've held off as I had heard from a local source that the 2.5TDI isn't capable of taking more than 210bhp reliably...
    The v6 tdi will take 350 Bhp without bother mate, it's the Turbo that's maxed out at about 220-240Bhp and the pump is limited to 50Mg/stroke which means that the only way to tune it is by fitting larger nozzles, effectively cheating the pump !
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamss24 View Post
    The v6 tdi will take 350 Bhp without bother mate, it's the Turbo that's maxed out at about 220-240Bhp and the pump is limited to 50Mg/stroke which means that the only way to tune it is by fitting larger nozzles, effectively cheating the pump !
    That's good to know. Cheers

    Anyone here owned the 2.5TDI Sport at all? Wondering what the stock map is like. Apparently a power hike to 210bhp. A colleague of mine says his nephew might be able to equip me with said map but if it's not worth it then I won't bother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willenium View Post
    That's good to know. Cheers

    Anyone here owned the 2.5TDI Sport at all? Wondering what the stock map is like. Apparently a power hike to 210bhp. A colleague of mine says his nephew might be able to equip me with said map but if it's not worth it then I won't bother.
    What year is your car and what's the engine code ?
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  15. #14
    Willenium's Avatar
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    2003 on a BDH engine.

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    ive had my hybrid (originally a bdg till it exploded) rolling roaded and have a printout,will look for it and upload it,

    ive a ake engine with a 180 pump but 163 pump electrics, mild remap, straight through pipes with only the cat near the turbo left on and a panel filter


    it made 186hp on the rollers bags of linear power on the road and its touched 144 flat out(private runway of course)

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    David, add a proper turbo (less than 10 years old) and a set of larger nozzles and you'll be amazed how well they can pull ! My a6 has in excess of 300Bhp and 700Nm of torque, pulls as well as my s4 with a remap, we are talking a lousy v6 diesel against a 340Bhp+ v8 !
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamss24 View Post
    David, add a proper turbo (less than 10 years old) and a set of larger nozzles and you'll be amazed how well they can pull ! My a6 has in excess of 300Bhp and 700Nm of torque, pulls as well as my s4 with a remap, we are talking a lousy v6 diesel against a 340Bhp+ v8 !
    the ake i have came from a a6 allroad 180, i have the turbo from it in the garage as i think when the engine was fitted it got the 163 turbo back on,
    what will it cost me for parts and fitting inbox me if you like,
    ive had the car 5 years so may aswell keep it another 5 and play with it as its at the point where its not worth a great deal now

    cheers

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    As a general rule:

    stage 1: hybrid turbo 2056 (plug and play) good for 250Bhp, +40% larger nozzles and custom remap

    stage 2: hybrid 2060 (plug and play) good for 270Bhp +80% larger nozzles, custom remap- might need clutch if on last legs as it might slip

    stage 3: custom gtb2260vk (not plug and play), +130% nozzles, custom map, Sachs SRE organic clutch + DMF, FMIC + free flow exhaust 320-350Bhp

    stage 4: custom hybrid gtb2566vk (not plug and play), +130% nozzles, remap, Sachs SRE paddle clutch + SMF, free flow exhaust, modded pump +400Bhp

    Take your pick...
    Last edited by adamss24; 16th November 2013 at 07:19.
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  20. #19
    davidfox280585's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamss24 View Post
    As a general rule:

    stage 1: hybrid turbo 2056 (plug and play) good for 250Bhp, +40% larger nozzles and custom remap

    stage 2: hybrid 2060 (plug and play) good for 270Bhp +80% larger nozzles, custom remap- might need clutch if on last legs as it might slip

    stage 3: custom gtb2260vk (not plug and play), +130% nozzles, custom map, Sachs SRE organic clutch + DMF, FMIC + free flow exhaust 320-350Bhp

    stage 4: custom hybrid gtb2566vk (not plug and play), +130% nozzles, remap, Sachs SRE paddle clutch + SMF, free flow exhaust, modded pump +400Bhp

    Take your pick...
    stage 2 sounds about spot on what does the 2060 turbo come on? what will my 180 ake turbo do?

  21. #20
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    Stage 3 and 4 will have so much torque that you need to limit it to keep the gearbox in one piece, my a6 cries from all joints when i do launch it hard...It's still a work in progress ! Working on my other allroad which has a unlimited pump so can inject up to 90Mg/stroke of fuel but i have fitted +80% larger nozzles for good measure. The allroad has solid factory FMIC which is a little bit too small but still efficient enough, hybrid gt2060 turbo, 4Bar map sensor, rs4 b7 brakes, ABT rs6 exhaust and much more. I have yet to fit a Sachs SRE/Loba clutch as the current one it slips under boost...
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  22. #21
    davidfox280585's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamss24 View Post
    Stage 3 and 4 will have so much torque that you need to limit it to keep the gearbox in one piece, my a6 cries from all joints when i do launch it hard...It's still a work in progress ! Working on my other allroad which has a unlimited pump so can inject up to 90Mg/stroke of fuel but i have fitted +80% larger nozzles for good measure. The allroad has solid factory FMIC which is a little bit too small but still efficient enough, hybrid gt2060 turbo, 4Bar map sensor, rs4 b7 brakes, ABT rs6 exhaust and much more. I have yet to fit a Sachs SRE/Loba clutch as the current one it slips under boost...
    yours sounds a weapon,
    mines a 163 cab MANUAL BOX
    180 ake engine and pump with bdg pump top,
    panel filter
    ful straight throughs only first elbow cat left on
    mild remap

    so what £££££ am i looking to spend on some injectors and turbo? can i pick up used?

    i love the way the v6 screams on and its only 186hp at the minute lol

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidfox280585 View Post
    stage 2 sounds about spot on what does the 2060 turbo come on? what will my 180 ake turbo do?
    Turbos are custom built, only the housings are retained. New VNT ring, new GTB22 turbine and choice of cast/billet compressor wheel with ETT (extended tip technology) all machined to fit original housings for plug and play. They are not as efficient as the gtb series but does away with fabrication and look just like factory ! Turbos are balanced and flow tested on high speed VSR machines and they all are rebuilt with new seals and bearings for longevity. They are not cheap but quality costs...

    There's no major difference between the 180 Bhp turbo and 163 BDG turbo, they are just set-up differently, you will find the BDG has the stop screw further in to come on boost quicker ! Depending on year the allroad turbo might have the older VNT ring but most likely they are identical internally...max power 210 Bhp with a healthy engine !
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  24. #23
    davidfox280585's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamss24 View Post
    Turbos are custom built, only the housings are retained. New VNT ring, new GTB22 turbine and choice of cast/billet compressor wheel with ETT (extended tip technology) all machined to fit original housings for plug and play. They are not as efficient as the gtb series but does away with fabrication and look just like factory ! Turbos are balanced and flow tested on high speed VSR machines and they all are rebuilt with new seals and bearings for longevity. They are not cheap but quality costs...

    There's no major difference between the 180 Bhp turbo and 163 BDG turbo, they are just set-up differently, you will find the BDG has the stop screw further in to come on boost quicker ! Depending on year the allroad turbo might have the older VNT ring but most likely they are identical internally...max power 210 Bhp with a healthy engine !
    im going to have to save some money and come see you with a boot full of goodies by the sounds get everything sorted,
    heres the car,

  25. #24
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    Stock vs hybrid turbo:










    2056 vs stock:








    GTB2260 vacuum converted:

    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  26. #25
    davidfox280585's Avatar
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    where is the best place to get one of those from? and rough costwise?

    its like comparing my t34 to ny std escort t3

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    Nice car you have there mate ! I just sold an engine to a chap from wembley, he's got a similar cabriolet like yours with some tasteful mods. His BDG engine hydrolocked due to a cold air intake mod ! He went trough a puddle of water and bent a few rods- sold him a low mileage BDG engine- all running sweet now !
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidfox280585 View Post
    where is the best place to get one of those from? and rough costwise?

    its like comparing my t34 to ny std escort t3
    Come by with your cheque book ready and i am sure you'll leave with a massive smile on your face ! If i get used bits (genuine Garrett) i could build a turbo for about £650, i don't make any money as the machining is what takes a big chunk of money- looking for cheaper machinist but hard to find quality work done cheap ! If i have to buy new parts it's a bit more, the VNT assembly on it's own is 100-150 quid then the CHRA is 200-250 depending on quality, then machining, bearing/seal kit + balancing,VSR set-up + adjusting on a flow bench it all adds up to about £800-900 ! The turbo is a mix and match of Garrett bits from different cars that work very well together and really wake up the car ! For example the 56mm compressor wheel is spec-ed from factory to flow 211Bhp and the turbine flows 244Bhp on it's native mercedes engine in standard spec, the gt2056 will do 300Bhp with a map on a merc 320 CDI so in our cars they are not stressed at 250-260Bhp !
    FOR SALE:
    -Golf mk 5/audi a3 1.6 FSI fuel pump, brand new genuine part boxed + seals
    -audi a3 (1998 to 2003) genuine clutch slave cylinder to fit 1.6 engines BRAND NEW
    -Rear bush press tool to fit new rear axle bushes on Golf Mk3/4, Audi a3/S3, Seat Leon/Toledo, Skoda Octavia mk 1/2 used once

  29. #28
    davidfox280585's Avatar
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    sounds like something worth looking into,i am very torn whether to sell the cab as i think i should get £4500 for it and put some more money and buy a mk1 focus rs as te audi will loose money while the focus will rise,
    thanks for the replies

  30. #29
    wesmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidfox280585 View Post
    sounds like something worth looking into,i am very torn whether to sell the cab as i think i should get £4500 for it and put some more money and buy a mk1 focus rs as te audi will loose money while the focus will rise,
    thanks for the replies
    But it will always be a Ford!
    kanecullen89 and DieselJake like this.

  31. #30
    DieselJake's Avatar
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    Your car lies to me with it's S4 badge lookin' good though.

 

 

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