PD 130 Injector problem

[pauldazzle]

My A4 threw a code today 17669 cylinder 1 maximum range exceeded.
Been logging my injectors this afternoon on VCDS, & injectors 1 & 4 are reading 127 all the time. It's had a new injector loom last year so I doubt that's the problem.
Anyone got any experience with PD injectors?

 

[dale86]

I had this on mine it slightly idles a bit lumpy very slightly on start up but touch the accelerator and it goes I too ahd an injector loom fitted to no avail still did it then the mechanic exsplained that he was a trained audi tech and that there was sum kind of problem on the 02 plate a4s snd it was gna cost too much to fix so i just deal with it .

 

[Audi Doodah]

When you say 127 do you mean 1.27mg/st. General consesus is over +/- 1.0 suggests an issue even though VCDS suggests +/- 2.5. Check cam lobes for signs of wear and run some diesel purge through them then check for any improvement.

I've linked to a recent thread on that other forum describing a very similar issue to yours!

 

[pauldazzle]

Well I disconnected my Van Aarken smart box, & got a totally different set of readings in measuring blocks 013, & 023. Engine was at idle with the occasional blip of the accelerator.
I can't work out whether I have 3 problem injectors (1,2,&4) or just 1 on injector 3.
Can anyone shed any light?

Wednesday	8	May	2013	12:17:17
038 906 019 LJ		1.9l R4 EDC G400SG 4910
	Group A:	013				Group B:	018				Group C:	023
		Cyl 1	Cyl 2	Cyl 3	Cyl 4		Cyl 1	Cyl 2	Cyl 3	Cyl 4		(no units)	(no units)	(no units)	(no units)
	TIME	-2.8 to +2.8 mg/H	-2.8 to +2.8 mg/H	-2.8 to +2.8 mg/H	-2.8 to +2.8 mg/H	TIME	0	0	0	0	TIME
Marker	STAMP	mg/str	mg/str	mg/str	mg/str	STAMP					STAMP
	0.7	-0.28	-0.26	0.61	-0.09	0.01	0	0	0	0	0.32	12	9	-19	20
	1.87	-0.24	-0.21	0.56	-0.14	1.08	0	0	0	0	1.46	9	9	-17	19
	3.03	-0.26	-0.14	0.52	-0.12	2.25	0	0	0	0	2.64	3	13	-12	16
	4.22	-0.21	-0.16	0.49	-0.09	3.42	0	0	0	0	3.83	5	9	-16	17
	5.38	-0.21	-0.14	0.45	-0.12	4.6	0	0	0	0	5.01	9	12	-14	20
	6.54	-0.21	-0.12	0.4	-0.09	5.78	0	0	0	0	6.16	8	10	-13	19
	7.72	-0.24	-0.12	0.42	-0.07	6.95	0	0	0	0	7.34	7	13	-16	21
	8.9	-0.26	-0.21	0.52	-0.05	8.12	0	0	0	0	8.5	11	13	-17	24
	10.02	-0.26	-0.19	0.52	-0.05	9.28	0	0	0	0	9.66	10	10	-14	22
	11.09	-0.24	-0.24	0.54	-0.07	10.38	0	0	0	0	10.73	8	13	-15	23
	12.17	-0.26	-0.24	0.54	-0.05	11.45	0	0	0	0	11.82	8	12	-15	20
	13.37	-0.28	-0.26	0.54	0	12.55	0	0	0	0	12.95	10	15	-15	19
	14.56	-0.31	-0.28	0.54	0	13.77	0	0	0	0	14.17	8	12	-13	18
	15.74	-0.31	-0.26	0.59	0	14.95	0	0	0	0	15.34	10	9	-20	22
	16.92	-0.35	-0.19	0.52	0	16.14	0	0	0	0	16.52	14	10	-16	18
	18.08	-0.35	-0.21	0.54	0	17.3	0	0	0	0	17.7	5	14	-11	14
	19.23	-0.28	-0.19	0.52	-0.12	18.48	0	0	0	0	18.86	10	11	-17	15
	20.32	-0.28	-0.19	0.52	-0.12	19.6	0	0	4	0	19.96	-3	-3	-45	-12
	21.43	-0.26	-0.16	0.56	-0.07	20.68	4	4	4	4	21.05	-3	-3	-45	-12
	22.6	-0.42	-0.52	0.87	0.05	21.81	0	0	0	0	22.2	5	8	-17	9
	23.74	-0.45	-0.42	0.82	0	22.98	0	0	0	0	23.38	9	9	-15	17
	24.92	-0.38	-0.35	0.82	-0.07	24.12	0	0	0	0	24.52	11	14	-15	14
	26.08	-0.33	-0.26	0.75	-0.12	25.3	0	0	0	0	25.7	13	15	-17	14
	27.28	-0.38	-0.26	0.73	-0.09	26.49	0	0	0	0	26.88	12	11	-14	22
	28.46	-0.42	-0.26	0.78	-0.07	27.68	0	0	0	0	28.06	10	8	-20	20
	29.62	-0.42	-0.26	0.75	-0.07	28.84	0	0	0	0	29.24	12	16	-14	22
	30.78	-0.42	-0.33	0.8	-0.07	30.02	0	0	0	0	30.4	8	13	-17	20
	31.96	-0.4	-0.31	0.78	-0.07	31.18	0	0	0	0	31.56	9	14	-14	21
	33.12	-0.4	-0.31	0.8	-0.09	32.36	0	0	0	0	32.74	6	13	-36	8
	34.19	-0.4	-0.31	0.8	-0.09	33.47	0	0	0	0	33.83	-10	-7	-43	2
	35.27	-0.4	-0.31	0.8	-0.09	34.55	4	4	4	4	34.91	-10	-7	-43	2
	36.4	-0.4	-0.31	0.8	-0.09	35.64	0	0	0	0	36.01	-4	4	-30	-8
	37.61	-0.4	-0.31	0.8	-0.09	36.81	4	4	4	4	37.21	-16	-21	-39	0
	38.78	-0.4	-0.31	0.8	-0.09	38	4	4	4	4	38.4	-16	-21	-39	0
	39.96	-0.42	-0.14	0.78	-0.19	39.18	4	0	4	0	39.56	-4	-4	-21	7
	41.12	-0.4	-0.09	0.68	-0.19	40.34	0	0	0	0	40.74	6	2	-16	14
	42.3	-0.47	-0.14	0.78	-0.16	41.52	0	0	0	0	41.9	6	5	-13	18
	43.37	-0.4	-0.07	0.68	-0.21	42.66	0	0	0	0	43.02	12	8	-16	15
	44.49	-0.38	-0.07	0.73	-0.28	43.74	0	0	0	0	44.1	12	8	-15	23
	45.66	-0.42	-0.07	0.75	-0.26	44.87	0	0	0	0	45.26	12	11	-21	21
	46.82	-0.38	-0.05	0.73	-0.33	46.04	0	0	0	0	46.43	8	13	-17	22
	47.93	-0.42	-0.12	0.8	-0.21	47.2	0	0	0	0	47.55	14	16	-15	19
	49.11	-0.49	-0.21	0.87	-0.16	48.33	0	0	0	0	48.7	15	14	-17	16
	50.26	-0.52	-0.28	0.96	-0.16	49.48	0	0	0	0	49.88	17	11	-19	22
	51.44	-0.49	-0.33	1.04	-0.21	50.66	0	0	0	0	51.04	15	10	-16	18
	52.6	-0.42	-0.33	1.04	-0.31	51.82	0	0	0	0	52.2	10	12	-18	21
	53.76	-0.38	-0.33	1.04	-0.35	52.98	0	0	0	0	53.38	13	10	-15	11
	54.95	-0.31	-0.26	0.99	-0.45	54.16	0	0	0	0	54.54	5	11	-18	19
	56.1	-0.28	-0.21	0.94	-0.45	55.32	0	0	0	0	55.72	10	9	-17	17
	57.21	-0.42	-0.26	1.01	-0.28	56.5	0	0	0	0	56.85	8	7	-14	14
	58.29	-0.59	-0.16	0.92	-0.16	57.57	0	0	0	0	57.93	6	10	-10	19
	59.38	-0.52	0	0.73	-0.26	58.65	0	0	0	0	59.01	6	11	-12	18
	60.56	-0.35	-0.12	0.85	-0.38	59.78	0	0	0	0	60.16	13	12	-15	19
	61.74	-0.31	-0.12	0.85	-0.42	60.96	0	0	0	0	61.36	8	8	-16	22
	62.9	-0.31	-0.05	0.78	-0.42	62.12	0	0	0	0	62.52	7	12	-12	19
	64.08	-0.31	0	0.75	-0.42	63.3	0	0	0	0	63.68	10	8	-16	22
	65.24	-0.38	0.02	0.71	-0.38	64.46	0	0	0	0	64.86	13	9	-17	22
	66.38	-0.47	-0.09	0.8	-0.26	65.64	0	0	0	0	66.01	10	14	-14	22
	67.49	-0.49	-0.09	0.82	-0.26	66.73	0	0	0	0	67.1	13	12	-16	20
	68.63	-0.45	-0.07	0.78	-0.33	67.87	0	0	0	0	68.26	11	17	-15	15
	69.78	-0.45	-0.07	0.78	-0.33	69.02	4	4	4	4	69.4	0	-3	-46	-3
	70.91	-0.42	-0.05	0.8	-0.33	70.18	4	4	4	4	70.56	0	-3	-46	-3
	72.04	-0.33	-0.07	0.8	-0.42	71.28	0	0	0	0	71.66	6	10	-23	8
	73.22	-0.28	-0.28	0.99	-0.38	72.44	0	0	0	0	72.82	10	9	-17	14
	74.42	-0.42	-0.33	0.96	-0.24	73.62	0	0	0	0	74.02	10	10	-16	13
	75.62	-0.45	-0.26	0.87	-0.16	74.82	0	0	0	0	75.22	9	8	-16	17
	76.78	-0.35	-0.33	0.89	-0.24	76	0	0	0	0	76.4	6	9	-12	17

​

 

[pauldazzle]

When you say 127 do you mean 1.27mg/st. General consesus is over +/- 1.0 suggests an issue even though VCDS suggests +/- 2.5. Check cam lobes for signs of wear and run some diesel purge through them then check for any improvement.

I've linked to a recent thread on that other forum describing a very similar issue to yours!

In measuring block 023 injectors 1 & 4 read 127 continuously, which changes cylinder depending where the jumpers are in the Van Aarken smart box. So as I mentioned in my last post I removed the VA smart box completely, & logged again. It now looks like injector 3 is constantly reading minus. I guess that could be because the other 3 are overfueling?

 

[Audi Doodah]

Doesn't look to be anything wrong with those figures. The four numbers in block 13 should add up to approximately 0, which yours do. See here

And going off what's said here it looks like it's your smart box causing problems in blocks 18 and 23

Just took reading of mine, cold engine & no revs - +0.6, -0.8, +0.2, +0.0 mg/st. These have been my approximate figures over the 7 months I've had the car and with and without my remap. My engine has never missed a beat and has never thrown up any fault codes.

 

[pauldazzle]

Do you get any minus readings in block 023?

 

[Audi Doodah]

Didn't look on mine but the link I gave you shows a range of +/-0.25 ms. If the car runs fine and doesn't throw fault codes without the box installed then it's clear where the problem lies.

I got a blacksmoke remap and a dodgy lead for £65 and get better quoted gains than your £350 box of resistors.

 

[pauldazzle]

The car has always felt a bit sluggish compared to other PD 130 VW's that I've owned. It has moments when it goes like stink, with or without the VA box then just goes back to normal.
The VA box has been on for months without any issues, & makes a big difference to performance & mpg.
It's not one of those cheap tell the ECU the engine is cold jobbies, it actually plugs into the injector harness. New it cost over £400 but only cost me £50, & it's saved me that & more in fuel costs. I'm not defending tuning boxes against remaps as I've had all of my past VAG (7)cars mapped.
I've been suspecting an injector issue for a while, & I think the VA box is just exaggerating the issue.
The car only just scraped through emissions on its MOT last month (without the VA box connected)
Thanks for that link by the way.

 

[Audi Doodah]

Just out of interest, have you checked your timing? Look for synchro angle in engine measuring blocks. I forget which block but it should be 0

 

[pauldazzle]

Yeah synchro reads between 0.5 to 1.0.

 

[pauldazzle]

Ok I adjusted the injector lash on Friday, they were all out spec especially 1 & 3. & it's made a big difference to performance. The cam lobes looked good so fingers crossed on that. However injector 3 still reads minus figures in block 023 all the time. so it looks like injector 3 has a problem so I'm going to swap it out & see what happens.

 

[Audi Doodah]

Be interested to see if you find any further issues. Just checked my and i get values between -5 and +25 in block 23 that vary constantly.

What do you mean by injector lash?

 

[pauldazzle]

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...d-tdi-injector-adjustment-clearance-lash.html

 

[Audi Doodah]

Ah, was familiar with the procedure but never heard it called lash before.

Every day is a learning day!

 

[pauldazzle]

Put a new injector in 3 this morning & no more minus figures in mb 023

 

[pauldazzle]

It would appear that injector 3 was goosed when I bought the car, but must of fallen off the cliff recently. Car is running absolutely great now.