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Thread: AUDI A4 Hybrid turbo Build

  1. #1
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    AUDI A4 Hybrid turbo Build

    Really following on from a thread started last week on hybrid turbos for the A4, I thought I would actually get round to starting my thread as I've started to make some head way on the turbo build.

    So I'm normally found lurking on the 8L forums and have been building hybrid turbos for a little while, mainly again for the 8L and 8N platform. In the course of learning as much as I can about Hybrids and the like I found that there really is a limited choice of decent Hybrid for the A4 1.8t engine. S4 and RS4 all seem to do well but the poor 1.8t seems to have got left behind.

    Most of the companies that offer hybrids for the S3/TT etc do offer them for the A4 but simply not on the same level, now whether this be demand or mechanical issues I don't know but when you think the 1.8t engine is the same throughout the VAG range the question has to begged why can you now get a 320bhp hybrid for an S3 but not an A4? they are the same engine, maybe different spec but none the less based on the same thing.

    One of the biggest draw backs of the A4 turbo is it's small size, in the K03 spec its a 150bhp unit and in the K03s spec it's 163 or 190bhp, same turbo just mapped differently, obviously twin intercoolers are used but mainly the tunning seperates these engines.

    With a remap the 150bhp will get you 190bhp and the k03s will get you 220bhp-ish, good figures, but when the best hybrid on the market at the moment for the A4 claims 260-280bhp you have to ask where is the 50bhp that the others get? ( power claims are made on what the turbo could theorectically flow not actual figures )

    So why is this? well for starters the best A4 hybrid is basically an S3/TT turbo in the A4 housings, when you add S3 injectors, maf and tuning you get a stage 1, Audi S3 engine in your AUDI A4 AVANT. Due to the layout and engine orientation it's impossible just to fit a K04 turbo and manifold from an S3 and make it work, it would be considerably cheaper so we are left with having to make the most out the K03 turbo on the A4.

    Limiting factor on the K03 is definately the turbine housing, ideal at making boost quickly, not so good at moving large amounts of air, but with all this said it is still possible as shown recently with new manifolds and exhausts to get considerable power increases by just fitting some well choosen upgrades. Turn up the boost, turn up the power.

    So where does all this fit in with my plan.

    Well I am in the process of building a K03 turbo from an Audi A4, to it will be added the RS6 turbine as found in the new TFSI K04 and also the majority of hybrids for the S3 and to that add the 2280 compressor which is larger than the 2275 found in the S3 K04 turbo and has the added benefit of ETT. Extended tip technology. This combo, on paper and in a K04 turbo, is more than adequate for over 300Bhp with supporting mods.




    Here's the Turbine housing machined out to take a K04 turbine from the S3 we di this initally to see if there was going to be enough metal left for it to take the larger RS6 turbine. The inducer on both these are the same so it was only the internal bore that needs to be machined futher to take the larger exducer the Rs6 turbine has. I plan to take as much as I can out from here to allow extra flow and also stop me from having to clip the turbine wheel to make it work...

    At this point I just want to thank Kev ( aka Aragorn ) for his help so far and his pressure for me to keep this going :-)
    seany26 likes this.

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  3. #2
    AlexGSi2000's Avatar
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    I will be keeping my eye on this - I still need to have my 2.5 180 turbo done by you, but funds are low at the minute!

    2002 A4 Avant Quattro Sport 2.5 V6 TDi - 219Bhp - Votex
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  4. #3
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    Very nice!

    My 1.8t (150) is currently:

    K03s
    sports cat
    cat back
    bigger injectors
    carbonio intake
    apr stage 2 remap

    Really need more go, 300bhp would be ideal

  5. #4
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    Smile

    So the plan is to fit this exhaust manifold

    AUDI A4 PASSAT 1.8T K03 K04 STAINLESS STEEL EXHAUST EQUAL MANIFOLD LONGITUDINAL | eBay

    And this DP
    Audi A4 Stainless Decat & Downpipe with Flexipipe Exhaust Front Pipe De Cat | eBay


    Anyone who has seen the s3 thread will know the tubular xs power manifold has produced nearly a 10% power increase just by fitting it when fitted to hybrids.

    So here we have a picture of the compressor immgoing to use.

    The one on the right is a 2275 compressor from the Audi s3/TT exducer on this 2.2" and the inducer is 75% of that. On the left is the 2280, this has a larger inducer 80% and also the extended tip which basically means it has the smal exducer but the tip extend up and over so not changing the backplate size needed.



    Here we have the k04 turbine v the rs6 on the left is the rs6 turbine. As you can see its bigger.the bigger the turbine the more power it had to drive the compressor. Balancing the the compressor to turbine is key. You can have a massive compressor but if th turbine can't power it then the compressor won't be efficient.



    Due to the compressor being considerably larger than the original a k04 compressor housing will have to used to accommodate the larger wheel.

    Heres a quick picture of the k03/k03s and k04 compressors for comparison

    Last edited by beachbuggy; 14th June 2012 at 22:13.

  6. #5
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    All looking good, nice write up.

    I have often wondered about the manifold and decat you have linked. I always assumed as it was relatively cheap it would not be any good. I'd be interested to here what you think of then when you get hold of them.

  7. #6
    docurley's Avatar
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    Nice work but why not use the K04-15 turbo as a base for your project?
    Black Audi RS4 2006 Exclusive edition, Black optic option (stock for now)

  8. #7
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Because its not actually very good, and almost all of it would end up in the bin anyway!

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
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  9. #8
    docurley's Avatar
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    fair enough
    Black Audi RS4 2006 Exclusive edition, Black optic option (stock for now)

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    Keeping a close eye on this thread :-)

  11. #10
    carl-1968's Avatar
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    Me too, only had my hybrid in for a month but by eck the difference is very noticable :-)

  12. #11
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl-1968 View Post
    Me too, only had my hybrid in for a month but by eck the difference is very noticable :-)
    Carl

    Can you give me a spec of your hybrid please and other mods you've got fitted as well. Mapped what sort of power you getting?

  13. #12
    carl-1968's Avatar
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    Sure thing, im not at home till tomorrow and i'll get the specs off the guy who built it for me, i'll list all the mods at the same time and graphs for the last rolling road in feb but due another next month

  14. #13
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    Spoke to the guy and basicaly the inside is the same as the 240 bhp 3.0 tdi hope this helps :-)

  15. #14
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    Do you have a 1.9tdi?

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    No I have 2.7, V6 :-) and now the mapping is sorted it goes like stink

  17. #16
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    Sorry for being dumb is that petrol or diesel?

  18. #17
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    I am watching this with hope of a solution for the Avant

  19. #18
    boost-addict's Avatar
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    how much would some one build a hybrid like this for? id like a hybrid with the same compressor and turbine wheels, any ideas?

    also that decat and downpipe is only stock 2.25" give the seller a message becasue i was going to buy that then decided having a downpipe made and then buying a decat from here was the best way

    THS 1.8T Decat A4/A6 Passat - FR&R Tuning| MAHA Dyno Rolling Road Tuning| Stage 1, 2 & 3 Engine Performance Upgrades - (Powered by CubeCart)
    Last edited by boost-addict; 23rd June 2012 at 14:51.

  20. #19
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    Diesel my man with nitrous oxide!, im going to put it on the rolling road on Monday and do 2 runs, one with nos and one without and record the sessions, will post them on ut and link it from here

  21. #20
    carl-1968's Avatar
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    Beechbuggy, you wanted the full list of engine mods?, ok here we go

    K & N cone filter with cold air feed, stock airbox removed
    Custom made heatshield for air filter
    Fmic with custom hardpipe and silicone hose
    Hybrid turbo with heat jacket insulation
    3" stainless turboback straight through exhaust with 4" oval tips heat wrapped for 1st 4 ft
    Nitrous oxide (w.o.n) street blastet 150 dry kit with 100 shot (50bhp) single nozzel
    Custom remap with EGR and DPF deleted
    Custom power steering cooler
    To fit
    Exhaust gas temp gauge
    Nitrous bottle pressure gauge
    Oil pressure and turbo boost gauge

    Thats the engine stuff but the car has other mods if you are interested I can list them?
    Cheers
    Carl

  22. #21
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost-addict View Post
    how much would some one build a hybrid like this for? id like a hybrid with the same compressor and turbine wheels, any ideas?

    also that decat and downpipe is only stock 2.25" give the seller a message becasue i was going to buy that then decided having a downpipe made and then buying a decat from here was the best way

    THS 1.8T Decat A4/A6 Passat - FR&R Tuning| MAHA Dyno Rolling Road Tuning| Stage 1, 2 & 3 Engine Performance Upgrades - (Powered by CubeCart)
    Good find. I knew the other one was stock, reason behind choosing it was that I wanted initially something that could be bought of the shelf and something to bench mark against when I fitted the hybrid. Then I could look into uprated 3" dp and decats or cats. Also I fit went for a 3" dp then I would probably look into using a k04 turbine housing from the s3 and get the manifold modified to accomodate this as the k04 loves the 3" dp. But then we are looking at the larger 2283 compressor wheel and potentially 330bhp, which at the moment is just one step ahead :-) at the moment I'm really looking at an "off the shelf" setup and seeing what we can achieve, then once that's sorted explore other possibilities.


    While I know " a lot " about the transverse s3/TT im
    still learning on the longitudinal engines and thus any info is great recieved!

  23. #22
    carl-1968's Avatar
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    There seems to be alot more aftermarket upgrades available for other engines, the 2.7 Tdi is rearly listed?, hence me using so much custom stuff, I will be taking it to Aitp this year and hope to check out what's available for it although there is not much more to be done, little touches here and there

  24. #23
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    So just a little update as have been busy with other things. The 1st hybrid is now ready, Rs6 turbine and the 2280 compressor wheel, It took alot of work to get the turbine housing to a stage that would be good and healthy to accept the large in comparison to the K03 turbine, A lot of porting was needed to get a good airflow around the turbine and out into the Downpipe, thankfully there was more than enough meat on the housing that I wasn't worried about it becoming too thin. Infact where I ended up machining and porting there was plenty of material.

    Here's a few pictures of the finished item it still have a stock actuator on it as I needed it to line it all up properly but this will be replaced with an uprated 10 psi actuator which will be more than adequate for this setup.

    As you can see a stock K04 compressor housing had to be used to cater for the larger compressor wheel, and this means that the inlet end has moved, but as an uprated FMIC will be needed anyway this shouldn't be an issue as custom pipe work will be on the cards anyway, the other issue is the fact this now needs a S3 3" maf and as such a new TIP will need to be made to accomadte the larger inlet and 3" maf. I am going to try a stock K04 one and see if I can manipulate it so it all faces the correct directions where needed otherwise I'll have to make one up from scratch,



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    Hi guys,

    I'm going to build a hybrid turbo for my a4 1.8t based on my k03-029. I want to make it the same as k04-023 (tt/s3). So I have a big wondering if the turbine housing will be enough for the tt compressor wheel or I need k04 housing (are the k03 and the k04 housings the same?), for the k04-015 wheel there is no problem. I know that the turbine housing is enough for the bigger wheel.

    Thank you!
    Last edited by caspar; 16th August 2012 at 14:37.

  26. #25
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    S3 compressor wheel will not fit in the original housing you will need to use a k04 housing .

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    Do you know what other brands use the same k04 housing as OEM? I could find it used.

  28. #27
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    will the 1.8 decat kit fit the 1.9tdi diesels on the a4, heard that they do??

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    Are there any news from this application?

  30. #29
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    Does anyone have the dimensions of the Loba "2580" wheel?
    http://www.loba-motorsport.com/shop/...69_720x600.jpg
    Looks to me like a 2283 6-blade? Just curious.
    1998 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro, dark blue, K03/K04+ hybrid, Carbonio CAI, APR Inlet Tubes, APR R1 diverter, Turbo+Intake, T.A.P. 50 HP Chip 2, stock fuel, 20x6x2.75 FMIC, 18.5 psi @4000 rpm, Straight Pipe, 'sport' cat, Milltek CB Exh, Podi Boost Gauge, 17" OZ F1 225/45-17, PowerSlot Rotors, Hawk Pads, SB Stage III clutch

  31. #30
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    2580 =
    2.5" exducer by 80% inducer

    63.5mm exducer by 50.8mm inducer..

  32. #31
    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    As for update. I finally fitted the turbo to my a4 cab. Currently it's running around 210bhp but only on 15psi as the injectors(stock) are maxed.. Fitting 380cc ones tomorrow
    olly quattro likes this.

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    keep us posted :-)

 

 

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