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  1. #1
    david_phillips95's Avatar
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    BDM CAI -ITG Intake Lookalike??

    Came Across this on ebay, looks very similar to the ITG intake bar the pipercross filter.

    ebay link: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BDM-2-0-FSI-TF...item1c10ce1965




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  3. #2
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Apart from the fact there appears to be no heatshield protecting that unnecessarily massive filter from soaking in engine bay heat. Just get the ITG mate - they are the business and (along with the Twintake) a real step up from the EVOMs / Forge / Dbilas systems of old. I know - I swapped mine out and the difference is very real. And the heatshield with the ITG is very effective too.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  4. #3
    V6Pete's Avatar
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    Backdraft are well respected with TFSI tuning, so I certainly wouldn't dismiss this kit as a knock-off ITG. I am sure a lot of time and development went into it.

    It's a shame it's not a bit cheaper, as both this and the ITG seem too expensive for what you get.
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    looks nearly the same to me and prob less money
    GIAC pump & race map WITH CONTROLER, VF ITAKE ,AUTOTECH HPFP,MV DOWNPIPE & MILTEK CAT BK,RS4 REG,UPRATED OEM DV, CUSTOM ENGINE COVER, BOOST GAUGE & POD, H&R SPRINGS, OEM BLACK WHEELS, FORGE CATCH TANK AND WASHER BOTTLE ,RNS-E SAT NAV BLUETOOTH,FLAT BOTTOM, BUCKETS,PRE-FACE TAILLIGHTS TINTS



  6. #5
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Laird View Post
    looks nearly the same to me and prob less money
    They are more expensive than ITG.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  7. #6
    KRL
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    I do not know much about BDM and I have never bought any of their products so this is only my opinion but......

    This is the second product of I have seen from BDM which looks like a blatant copy!!! Here is the other:

    KMD HPFP Vs BDM HPFP:

    KMD:


    BDM:
    Ice Silver S3 + every single option + REVO + BSH Street Can + Forge Twintake + Autotech


  8. #7
    S.
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    that's nice copy.
    s3 Ibis White ... Build Thread

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  9. #8
    warren_S5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRL View Post
    I do not know much about BDM and I have never bought any of their products so this is only my opinion but......

    This is the second product of I have seen from BDM which looks like a blatant copy!!! Here is the other:

    KMD HPFP Vs BDM HPFP:

    KMD:


    BDM:
    Ah, by laying it differently in the picture they may have fooled us all and avoided a law suit

    The filter was advertised by BDM on SCN a few months back and I spoke to Andy at ITG as to whether they had collaborated on this. Supposedly they haven't, and Andy wondered whether someone who had bought an ITG had inadvertently used BDM for some other tuning and it had slipped into their hands to be copied. I'm inclined to agree, so own up!!! (Only joking).

    I think its sad when Andy put a lot of time into developing this for it to be copied SO blatantly, but then imitation is often an indirect form of flattery. It's barely worth ITG even thinking of putting it through the courts given the volume of sales. Bare faced cheek!
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  10. #9
    V6Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrencox View Post
    I think its sad when Andy put a lot of time into developing this for it to be copied SO blatantly
    I keep hearing this, but looking at the kit, I really can't believe a lot of time went into it - it's a collection of universal hoses and pipework.

    As for the fuel pump, do you not think it's most likely that BDM are just selling a KMD pump but not using the KMD brand? It's not right to assume they've copied it.
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  11. #10
    devonmikeyboy's Avatar
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    Tuning companies have always copied each others products nothing new there. As to the CAI how else would you design one to fit in the engine bay as the inlet pipework has to follow that route then just stick a air filter one the end of it, simple really. There is a tuning company up north who buys intercoolers from a company in Gloucester and has the well known company in Gloucester remove their name plate and fit a plate with JB sorry i mean the tuning company from up north on it so they can say it`s their intercooler.....
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

  12. #11
    V6Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devonmikeyboy View Post
    Tuning companies have always copied each others products nothing new there. As to the CAI how else would you design one to fit in the engine bay as the inlet pipework has to follow that route then just stick a air filter one the end of it, simple really. There is a tuning company up north who buys intercoolers from a company in Gloucester and has the well known company in Gloucester remove their name plate and fit a plate with JB sorry i mean the tuning company from up north on it so they can say it`s their intercooler.....
    And likewise companies in Gloucester buy products from elsewhere, put a sticker on it and charge a premium! As you say, everybody does it...
    A3 3.2 V6 S-Line | Brilliant Black | Full Votex Kit | 18" Cades Bern / 19" Bentley 5 Spokes in flat grey with 215/35 Falkens | Custom Code Remap
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  13. #12
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    Hi Guys, We have never kept it a secret that we sell KMD fuel pumps and KMD uprated followers. Great product. We love the ITG intake kit, but prefer to use our own filters which are non oiled and have a choice of hose colours. There is no need for a heatshield as the intercooler cools the air to the same intake temps with or without the heatshield. The dyno figures showed no difference between having one or not. I would love to make the intake kits cheaper, but they arn't that cheap to make and quite time consuming to put together. The kits are prices at Ł295 + Vat for both the K03 and the K04 cars which makes us slightly cheaper that the competitors.

    Many companies name products as their own. MV exhausts/Mongoose are made by Blueflame etc etc.

    Cheers, Alex
    Last edited by Backdraft Motorsport; 11th March 2010 at 09:12.

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  14. #13
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backdraft Motorsport View Post
    There is no need for a heatshield as the intercooler cools the air to the same intake temps with or without the heatshield.
    That is interesting - as it suggests that EVOMs, Forge and ITG are all cynically ripping off their customers by supplying and charging for heatshields which have no purpose. Is that the case ? Worrying if so ...
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

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    lve known this for some time now that there is no need for cai cooling as the temps get regulated thru the intercooler. At present l have taken my cai off all the way back past the maf unit. l have fabricated a new maf recepticle out of a coca cola can, one end of the can goes to the system and the other end is covered by charim kitchen wipes which l only need to replace every 5-10 years and dont need an aqua guard for. Only cost me the price of the kitchen roll as l picked a used can of coke out the bin, to add to that l made a profit when selling my cai on to some dipstick who thought it would give him increased performance. lve also cancelled my twintake order as l now see that there is no need for it. But l do feel that there should be some way of cooling the air so lve removed my bonnet and have emigrated to greenland. l did think about moving to the moon but the relocation charges are horrendous.

    On a more serious note. If you fit a twintercooler is there a need for the heat sheild? Or even better still, what would happen if you put two heat sheilds in one above the other, mm mm. Now that would really give the heat something to think about..

  16. #15
    KRL
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    My opinion is that the colder the air entering the intercooler then the cooler it will be leaving the intercooler. I don't think this can be argued. Here is an excellent explanation of how this works:

    The following calculation is how you arrive at the discharge temperature of the compressed air leaving the turbo. As you can see, part of that calculation requires you to know the inlet temperature of the incoming to the turbo. This alone, means that turbo inlet temperature does have a bearing on the turbo exit temperature or the overall efficiency of the turbo in regards to compressing the air(making boost).

    Tout = Tin + Tin x [-1+(Pout/Pin)0.263]
    ______________________
    efficiency

    Tin= 70 deg F (this is the turbo inlet air temp) + 460 = 530 deg R
    Pin= -0.5 psig (turbo inlet air pressure) + 14.7 = 14.2 psia
    Pout= 19 psig (acheived boost pressure at turbo exit) + 14.7 = 33.7 psia
    Pout/Pin = 33.7/14.2 = 2.373 (this is the compression ratio)

    Tout = 530 + 530 x (-1+2.3730.263 ) = 717.8 deg R - 460 = 257.8 deg F
    ___________________
    0.72




    So, this turbocharger above which has an efficiency of 72%, inlet temp of 70deg, inlet pressure of -.5 psig, a 2.373 compression ratio and an acheived boost pressure of 19 psig results in turbocharger exit temperatures of 257 deg.

    Now, let's test the affect of inlet temperature on the exit temperature of the turbo. Leaving everything else static, let's change the inlet temperature to 80 deg.

    Tout = 540 + 540 x (-1+2.3730.263 ) = 731.38 deg R - 460 = 271.3 deg F
    ___________________
    0.72


    So, a 10 deg increase in turbocharger inlet temperature will result in a 13.5 deg increase in turbocharger exit temps for this particular turbo.

    Also, please feel free to check my math as I don't consider myself a mathematician by any means, I work in Sales/Marketing.

    Please note the original formula calls for .263 to be an exponent of (pin/pout). I couldn't get that correctly formatted for the post. Please reference the original article found here for the correct formula and more information http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

    Interesting notes in regards to the A4 is that the above turbocharger is 72% efficient at 19 psig. Our ko3's are nowhere near that efficient at those boost levels. Perhaps at 10 psig but certainly not at 19. Therefore, an interesting calculation would be to view the ko3 compressor map and determine its efficiency at 16-18 psig and the affect a 10 deg inlet temperature change would have on the turbo exit temperatures.

    As we are discussing the benefits of cold air induction to turbocharged engines I have left alot of other useful data from this article and calculation out. For those of you who are really interested and play around with the formula you will see alot of interesting properties associated with turbocharger efficiency. One of special consideration in regards to intake systems is the turbocharger inlet pressure. We'll get to that in future posts as well as several other variables used in the above.

    So, to answer your question, more incoming grams per second through the maf doesn't allow more boost to be made but it is denser air which means more oxygen molecules. Sure, the manifold and combstion chambers are limited in size but temperature does affect the density of the oxygen molecules and the cooler the air in the intake mani and combustion chamber, the more oxygen molecules you have in there. The turbocharger heats up the incoming air through the above calculation and then the intercooler will attempt to cool it back down. However, the lower your starting temps, turbo inlet temps, the lower your turbo exit temps and the less heat the intercooler has to exchange therefore increasing the efficiency of both the turbo and intercooler and resulting in denser air in the combustion chamber.
    So IMO a sealed system with heat shield is the best you can do here.
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  17. #16
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRL View Post
    My opinion is that the colder the air entering the intercooler then the cooler it will be leaving the intercooler. I don't think this can be argued. Here is an excellent explanation of how this works:
    This was my understanding too KRL - so are we to assume Backdraft are talking crap ?
    We can't both be right ...
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  18. #17
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    The main point in us trying our intake without the heatshield was to obtain the extra airflow from the original airfeed on the top of the bumper which is sectioned off with the shield. When trying this we found the airflow to the filter to be more substantial than before and give a few extra g/s throughout the rev range with no increase or decrease in intake temps. The only time you get heatsoak is generally when the car is stationary and this affects the inlet manifold, intercooler, intercooler hoses and intake hoses which as soon as you start moving again will cool down due to the increase of airflow. In an ideal world the best way to decrease intake temps is to add air feeds to the filter from the front bumper rather than block off a good one or run water meth!!! The twintake is a great example of getting air from both the origial intake position and the air from the wing, but as we all know from BMC filters on 1.8T's, that a small filter is quite a restriction. I have never said that i disagree that the colder the air entering the intercooler then the cooler it will be leaving the intercooler.

    This is a dyno plot of an S3 with our intake, twintercooler, BF turbo back with decat, KMD fuel pump with uprated follower and Revo stage 2+ software just to show the figures that can be had from these upgrades:



    Cheers, Alex

    Steve @ BDM
    Milton Keynes VAG Independant Specialist
    Phone: 01908 648081 / Email: info@backdraftmotorsport.com

  19. #18
    KRL
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    Thanks for the info Alex.

    A little OT but I have a question about the dyno you posted. There is a slight dip/flat spot at ~4400 rpm, do you know why this is? The reason I ask is because my car was recently on a MAHA dyno and I had the same kind of dip in the same place.
    Ice Silver S3 + every single option + REVO + BSH Street Can + Forge Twintake + Autotech


  20. #19
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    Can be due to a slight torque shift between the front and rear wheels because of the standard Haldex. Much more noticable on the MK1 haldex equiped cars which have a veru bumpy graph and usually low overall figures on Maha's. Performance controllers elimiate the issue by bringing in power to the rear wheels under throttle position. Some FSi cars also get an unknown flatspot on some dynos where they dump a load of fuel then have to build boost again.

    Steve @ BDM
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    Phone: 01908 648081 / Email: info@backdraftmotorsport.com

  21. #20
    warren_S5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRL View Post
    Thanks for the info Alex.

    There is a slight dip/flat spot at ~4400 rpm, do you know why this is? The reason I ask is because my car was recently on a MAHA dyno and I had the same kind of dip in the same place.
    Similar to you, but slightly different range: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=243738
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