Had my 2.0tdi remapped at AMD!

rickyquicky · Dec 9, 2009

Anyone else had a rolling road done at AMD essex?

Just had an AMD re-map and a pipercross panel filter and the rolling road read out was 195 bhp lol!

Its a tdi140 2005 model by the way.

The 'before' graph even showed like 165 bhp or something as standard. So either their rolling road is reading well over, or my car is like Britains fastest standard/chipped A3 tdi140. :moa:

On a serious note though, do you think the rollers are just well out and more car is more like 170-180 bhp now (assuming 140-150 bhp standard). I really cant see how its possible to be that much over as standard, and then go all the way up to 195 with a panel filter and AMD remap.

I'll try to post up the graph later this evening. :racer:

SAiLO · Dec 9, 2009

I wanted to go to AMD Essex and do the rolling road tests but what's the point if the readings are not accurate? :think:

rickyquicky · Dec 9, 2009

Maybe they are, im not saying they're not - but if someone told me they got 195 bhp from a remap and panel filter I would usually laugh!

evocos · Dec 9, 2009

Rolling roads are good to check how you car is running,but figures quoted are not always to accurate.
I would say with what you have had done,it would be about 175 bhp and obviously up on torque.

N8 · Dec 9, 2009

evocos said:
figures quoted are not always to accurate

You could probably get 30bhp differences between different ones on the same day, for me its all about how the car drives on the road..

rickyquicky · Dec 9, 2009

Well I must admit my car has always felt much quicker as standard than the quoted 140 bhp. To be honest it did feel more like the 165 as standard, which was why I was worried about getting it remapped in the first place, because I thought it might already have been done.

I mean they seem like a great company, and maybe the figure is accurate, I will just be VERY surprised if my car is a genuine 195 bhp! :happy:

N8 · Dec 9, 2009

rickyquicky said:
I will just be VERY surprised if my car is a genuine 195 bhp!

If you get 195bhp from those 2 things then:

rickyquicky · Dec 9, 2009

Just a little update:

AMD insist that they have seen cars like mine with an exhaust sytem around the 200 bhp mark, and that there can be a lot of variation between the cars they have had on the rollers, and insist their rolling roads are accurate. So if mine is a genuine 195 I will be well happy.

Anyone know of any other rolling roads in London or South East that have a reputation as being accurate? It would be nice to be able to confirm my figures 100%.

AMD offered another rolling road if I wanted at half price, but its not really worth it for confirmation, it would be better to try an entirely different set of rollers.

N8 · Dec 9, 2009

rickyquicky said:
It would be better to try an entirely different set of rollers.

Indeed

S3Alex · Dec 9, 2009

Just a few thoughts on rolling roads......

Obviously,they are a bit of a lottery,and depend to a degree on tyre pressures,how well your car is tied down etc etc,but I've had my own car on AMD's one a few times,and I would say that it seems pretty accurate.

The first time,after fitting a Miltek exhaust,mine barely made 265bhp(before the remap),and to be honest from stock I would say that it felt like it.

On subsequent occasions the car delievered on the road,much what the RR said(by comparison with other cars I've owned),and the 360bhp that AMD say it has now fits pretty well with another car of similar weight and power that I had,which had the engine dyno'd.

In any case,whether or not the RR is totally accurate is probably less important than what the car drives like,and it also has it's uses in setting the car and map up.

You also have to factor air temperature into the mix,and right now with early morning temperatures down below 10C,you will see a bit more power.

devonmikeyboy · Dec 9, 2009

AMD remap the most powerful cars in the country which just have very basic mods fitted if you want to believe their dyno.... :whistle2:

sammi · Dec 9, 2009

Are you sure the car isnt a 170bhp model?

S3Alex · Dec 9, 2009

devonmikeyboy said:
AMD remap the most powerful cars in the country which just have very basic mods fitted if you want to believe their dyno....

FWIW,it took an exhaust,CAI,fuel pump,and a couple of remaps to drag 360bhp out of mine.

Maybe it was just reluctant....

...if I could have got the same with less input I'm sure I'd have been happy,and to be honest so would AMD,given the time and effort they put into solving the misfire problems(at their own cost I might add).

My comments re the accuracy were only based with reference to other similarly powered cars I've owned which actually were dyno'd.
Obviously the best way is to get the engine itself dyno'd,and failing that,to hawk it around a few RR's and see what the average is,but as I've said,it's not the last bhp that really matters,but the torque,and how the car goes on the road.

I would rather have 360lbs of torque and 300bhp than the other way round!

rickyquicky · Dec 9, 2009

devonmikeyboy said:
AMD remap the most powerful cars in the country which just have very basic mods fitted if you want to believe their dyno....

Well who knows? Im very sceptical myself (as i've said all along) but ive spoken to 2 or 3 different people there and they dont seem surprised and said they have seen a few other 'fast ones'.

Plus AMD seem to have a good reputation, they said they use their rollers for other tuning companies/race builders so they must have at least some sort of standards. Thats what im confused about. If it was a set of portable rollers i'd take it with a pinch of salt and say there were about 15-20 bhp out.

It certainly feels like 190-200 bhp now, but then that doesnt exactly prove anything does it lol.

And im pretty certain its a pd140, they didn't do a pd170 in my model year (2005, 05 plate) did they?

paddy · Dec 9, 2009

If you can get to Crawley then try Austec Racing, their rollers have a calibration cert of +/- 2% I had my 246bhp 3.2 run on there with a piper cross and it gave 251bhp which is exactly what i would expect.
As N8 says its really down to how it drives. an increase of 10% on torque is far more useful than BHP at 6000 rpm.

N8 · Dec 9, 2009

paddy said:
As N8 says its really down to how it drives

He's a clever man, prolly why he said it :idea:

rickyquicky · Dec 9, 2009

Well it drives perfectly and feels powerful - of course im happy!

But thats not the point of this thread, its that headline power figure and whether its likely to be correct or not...

NHN · Dec 9, 2009

I'd be very surprised if your car is running 195 from just what you've done, amd RR's do seem to always report back OTT power, I'd say goto another RR as Pat says, there one seems more accurate & TBH take RR results with a pinch of salt overall, they're so different from place to place.

You'd be lucky to get anything at 6k on a 140 tdi lol, its all over by 4-5, lol

robos rado · Dec 9, 2009

Redline chipped a 140 and got almost the exact same figures, i think it was 160 as standard and 195 once chipped! Cant remember which rolling road they used. Quite fancy doing this to mine.

DJM1982 · Dec 9, 2009

I had my 1.8t LCR remapped and RR's at AMD and i actually got less BHP than i was expecting, but it was a very very hot day (which probably explains it). AMD essex do RR days and most people i have spoke to regarding them seem to say they are pretty accurate. But at the end of the day, if you happy with the way it drives then who cares about figures, just enjoy the added power and drivability.

smbAudi · Dec 9, 2009

why don't you go ask for the calibration details from the horses mouth??

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=134184

ben@amdessex · Dec 15, 2009

Morning All,

As we told Ricky on the day, alot of 140 and 170's come up high as standard. So we are not suprised by this. The car started high as standard and then increased 30+ bhp unadatped after the re-map. Its not as if it was 140 then got 195 after being re-mapped..........

As for the acuracy of our rollers. KTM X-bow driven straight from the factory to here was 0.4bhp off the claimed power output. We have a standard fiesta 1.25 here which has been dyno'd twice, 74bhp one time and 75bhp the other time. Standard out put for this car is 75bhp. We get standard 1.8T's on there making the right power or there abouts.

Our dyno is also TUV approved and a certain large manufactorer use our dyno to test there dealer upgrade packages. Im sure if our dyno was a crazy as it has been made out to be then they wouldn't come to us as it would cause them a whole load of trouble.

Hope that helps,

Ben

NHN · Dec 15, 2009

Thanks Ben, but do you really think the 140 can be some 20 over stock with stock map as such?

smbAudi · Dec 16, 2009

NHN said:
Thanks Ben, but do you really think the 140 can be some 20 over stock with stock map as such?

I don't mean this in a bad vibe but don't you think he's already answered your question? With their turn around of cars I would imagine 1 in 5 are VAG diesels so I would guess they are unsurprised by what he has said...

That said my mum's 2.0TDI PD140 doesn't feel like it has 160bhp but it's certainly better to drive than my 1.9TDIe!!

or perhaps it's these new CR's that have the higher OEM output?

NHN · Dec 16, 2009

smbAudi said:
I don't mean this in a bad vibe but don't you think he's already answered your question? With their turn around of cars I would imagine 1 in 5 are VAG diesels so I would guess they are unsurprised by what he has said...

That said my mum's 2.0TDI PD140 doesn't feel like it has 160bhp but it's certainly better to drive than my 1.9TDIe!! or perhaps it's these new CR's that have the higher OEM output?

1st of all, any tuner can turn cars around if they show success, but I'm not putting the guys down here, just opinions.

I would have thought you would of seen the rhetorical question I posed, I was saying this is disbelief that it is such a high percentage over stock, audi cant be that far out, given audi spend billions on these things & tuners spend thousands on R&R's, who would you doubt out of the 2, not saying amd are lying just questioning the readings, be interested to see a comparison with another RR though or even 3 then goto audi with the results.

Understand though I have respect for Shaun & crew as they obviously do good work, but 20bhp more at stock via an RR, seems unlikely, though I will admit anythings possible, but this opens a can of worms where if your turbo blew on stock car out of warranty & you went to them with an RR showing 160 output instead of 140, would you have a case for a claim for audi outputting to much power since they sold you the car, do you see the POV I'm trying to put across, still finding it hard to believe.

2.0tdi are better anyway than a 1.9tdi from my drive experience, plus the CR's are much better overall.

N8 · Dec 16, 2009

Well said nige.

smbAudi · Dec 16, 2009

it does seem a grey area as to why manufacturers qoute BHP figures but be different in reality. Then this issue spreads across a lot of the manufactuers out there...I watched a video on EVO pitching the Focus RS MK2 against the upcoming Megane RS250. They RR'd them both before test driving and the Focus was down by 22bhp!! from 300 to 278 and the Megane was up 20bhp!! fro 250 to 270...

I understand the Nissan GTR has a diverse output from one to the next also however this is down to the fact the engines are hand built.

I wonder how people feel when they find out their car has less BHP than qouted...I know i'd be pretty hacked off after paying 26K on a Focus!! Not that 278bhp is slow of course... lol

NHN · Dec 16, 2009

smbAudi said:
I wonder how people feel when they find out their car has less BHP than qouted...I know i'd be pretty hacked off after paying 26K on a Focus!! Not that 278bhp is slow of course... lol

I seem to recall (iirc) some S3's have found the power down from stock figures & this is without any mods etc, so its not unheard of atm & the cars were functioning properly iirc

But what do you think of the issue of warranty etc if the car has been over mapped as such by the manufacturer, you can see why it would not be in there interest to do this for claims purposes, that creates a clear path for claims even outside of warranty.

paddy · Dec 16, 2009

I can believe a 10% variation on a 140 but that would be +/- 7 bhp. In my experience of tunning motorcycles very small differences can make a difference to power on the rollers. a 140 with 25psi in the tyres and poor diesel in the tank. a tightish engine at say under 10k miles, might well give off 10% less than a loose engine on premium diesel and 38psi in the tyres.
My personal opinion on RR's is that they are great for showing percentage changes in out put after modifications. ie: a base run of 100bhp and then a run with a new map that gives 110bhp is a pretty accurate 10% improvement but not necessarily accurate start and finish totals......if you get my drift.
When i ran my car the other week i found 10bhp on a change of petrol. I can believe this but not necessarily the 240 start and 250 finish figures....just the 10bhp improvement.

Is this making any sense ?

smbAudi · Dec 16, 2009

NHN said:
But what do you think of the issue of warranty etc if the car has been over mapped as such by the manufacturer, you can see why it would not be in there interest to do this for claims purposes, that creates a clear path for claims even outside of warranty.

As you've said peviously manufacturers spend a fortune on R&D so you would expect that the outputs that their cars are achieving are sustainable in a reliable and robust manner for a mixture of driving. I think the queston is a matter of whether the manufacturers under or over state the output in their official figures if not accurate depending on what reasons they drum up...

So based on this principle does the term overmap exist if you get where I'm coming from? Is it just a case of providing official figures based on unrealistic test conditions?

A similar point is the MK2 Focus ST boys struggle to get anywhere near the MPG figures so is this another situation where the official figures are set under test conditions rather than actual real life circumstances. For example do manufacturers limit the power on test models for emissions tests etc?

This is why I am lead to not be surprised by AMD's claims and trying to get the point across that manufacturers don't always tell the gospel about their cars... :thumbsup:

Caesium · Dec 16, 2009

There is a rolling road at Sanspeed in Bexleyheath, if that's close enough.

Had my 2.0tdi remapped at AMD!

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