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  1. #1
    gixxer600k4's Avatar
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    Reverse light upgrade

    Hi guys, been looking for a decent reverse light as I dont really think the one in the A3 is any good, can only see I little way behind. I found these. will they fit and work, how do you get around the bulb warning light with the bayonet style?

    http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/u2072w-15...te-p-2027.html
    Last edited by h5djr; 27th November 2009 at 09:05.
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  3. #2
    Staz's Avatar
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    I would go for a slightly higher power normal gas bulb before trying LEDs mate. To be honest I can't see them making much of a difference to your rear vision though.
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    mitch78's Avatar
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    LEDs will output LESS light than the standard bulb. They'll look brighter in colour, but that's all.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

  5. #4
    Staz's Avatar
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    I think that depends on the LED though doesn't it Lee? These have 3 LEDs in total so they could be brighter. Your DRL LEDs look brighter than standard!
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    mitch78's Avatar
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    They look it, but they're not. Like I said, it's just the colour. You can see SFA with them in the dark.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

  7. #6
    Staz's Avatar
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    Okie dokie!
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  8. #7
    mitch78's Avatar
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    BTW, mine have 30 LEDs.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

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  9. #8
    Staz's Avatar
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    Aha that's that theory blown out of the water! lol
    Last edited by Staz; 27th November 2009 at 12:39.
    8P2 S3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78 View Post
    They look it, but they're not. Like I said, it's just the colour. You can see SFA with them in the dark.
    Whoooah there neddy.

    -That's just as inaccurate a statement as declaring that a petrol engine will always make less torque than a diesel; It's an apples-to-oranges comparison, and actually quite wrong.

    Coloured incandescent bulbs are the only bulbs which meet your description. (see the Daniel Stern Lighting site for a more detailed explanation) but it is absolutely inapplicable to LEDs.

    Here's what I THINK you may have meant:

    White LEDs are equivalent to a higher colour temperature, and a higher colour temperature gives the IMPRESSION of being 'brighter' because as a light bulb increases in brightness, so too does its colour temperature.

    The correct way to measure brightness is in luminous intensisty, specified using the unit 'candela' (or often 'millicandelas which is a 1/000th of a candela).

    HOWEVER...

    It is perfectly possible to have LEDs which are much brighter than normal incandescent bulbs. Not only that, but they consume less power to create even MORE light than their 'hot-wire' counterparts.

    What makes them a poor-swap in terms of luminous intensity is the discrepancy between angular light dispersion. MOST incandescent bulbs radiate light equally in all directions (an exception is the PAR series which stands for Parabolic Aluminized Reflector). LEDs are 'lensed' to concentrate their light and -like the PAR bulbs- concentrate most of their light in a nominally 'forward' direction.

    Many vehicle lights ignore much of the 'forward' light of the bulb, and instead gather the 'side' light ejection (like a lighthouse light collector) and direct it in a single direction. The A3 sportback tail light is a perfect example of this -I can't speak for the hatch light arrangement as I've not examined one in person.

    Unfortunately there are several other variables which make comparison difficult, but the underlying fact is that if you get enough LEDs of sufficient power correctly lensed, their output will be VASTLY brighter than an equally-powered incandescent light. ALWAYS, AND WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

    Keith

  11. #10
    paddy's Avatar
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    Drive in forwards to the place you were going to reverse into and use your headlights as reversing lights
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    Khufu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    Drive in forwards to the place you were going to reverse into and use your headlights as reversing lights
    2003-2008 1998 Red A3 8L 1.8 Sport
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  13. #12
    mitch78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWAddict View Post
    Whoooah there neddy.

    -That's just as inaccurate a statement as declaring that a petrol engine will always make less torque than a diesel; It's an apples-to-oranges comparison, and actually quite wrong.

    Coloured incandescent bulbs are the only bulbs which meet your description. (see the Daniel Stern Lighting site for a more detailed explanation) but it is absolutely inapplicable to LEDs.

    Here's what I THINK you may have meant:

    White LEDs are equivalent to a higher colour temperature, and a higher colour temperature gives the IMPRESSION of being 'brighter' because as a light bulb increases in brightness, so too does its colour temperature.

    The correct way to measure brightness is in luminous intensisty, specified using the unit 'candela' (or often 'millicandelas which is a 1/000th of a candela).

    HOWEVER...

    It is perfectly possible to have LEDs which are much brighter than normal incandescent bulbs. Not only that, but they consume less power to create even MORE light than their 'hot-wire' counterparts.

    What makes them a poor-swap in terms of luminous intensity is the discrepancy between angular light dispersion. MOST incandescent bulbs radiate light equally in all directions (an exception is the PAR series which stands for Parabolic Aluminized Reflector). LEDs are 'lensed' to concentrate their light and -like the PAR bulbs- concentrate most of their light in a nominally 'forward' direction.

    Many vehicle lights ignore much of the 'forward' light of the bulb, and instead gather the 'side' light ejection (like a lighthouse light collector) and direct it in a single direction. The A3 sportback tail light is a perfect example of this -I can't speak for the hatch light arrangement as I've not examined one in person.

    Unfortunately there are several other variables which make comparison difficult, but the underlying fact is that if you get enough LEDs of sufficient power correctly lensed, their output will be VASTLY brighter than an equally-powered incandescent light. ALWAYS, AND WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

    Keith
    Oh FFS.

    Yes you are technically accurate, however, you find me a replacement LED unit suitable for plug and play use in the reverse light of an 8P A3/S3, which has both a similar luminous intensity to that of an OEM incandescent bulb AND correctly oriented LEDs to make similar use of the light output via the OEM reflector. It might technically produce more light, but if none of it is focussed in the right direction he'll see less than he does now, and as his desired outcome is to see more, that's pretty pointless "upgrade".

    So as I said, in layman's terms, the LED replacement will NOT be as bright as his OEM bulb.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

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    gixxer600k4's Avatar
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    but still, would that bulb fit?

    it is stating that it has 50 lumens which is pretty bright, i know LEDs may not work as well as a filament bulb due to the light being dispersed more, but nowadays, LED technology is pretty good at the moment. take for example the new CREE Q5 type LED which is much bright than any bulb will ever be, but unfortunately, it is not available for the automotive world. with my work (retained firefighter) when we get called out we all drive round back of station and then reverse down a long, unlit drive/road and my reverse light is shocking, can barely see behind me or to my side! just looking for a better alternative.

    STAZ- what are these higher powered bulbs like and where can i find them?

    thanks
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    mitch78's Avatar
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    The base would fit, but I'm not sure the bulb would fit through the hole in the reflector.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

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  16. #15
    gixxer600k4's Avatar
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    good point, hey ho. no doubt it will throw up stupid warning lights too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78 View Post
    Oh FFS.
    ...
    So as I said, in layman's terms, the LED replacement will NOT be as bright as his OEM bulb.
    ...Except that's NOT what you said. What you said was technically inaccurate. Hence my correction.

    Most people don't understand LEDs, I'm trying to help that.

    You didn't frame your comment as being set out in 'layman's terms'; you introduced the notion of 'apparent brightness' and thus took it AWAY from bare facts...

    So I'm sorry it of qualifies as deserving an 'FFS' comment, perhaps I'll just try and be vague and inaccurate in future.



    Keith

  18. #17
    devonmikeyboy's Avatar
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    I have an LED reverse light that i got from HIDS4U as i wanted a brighter reverse light as well. http://www.hids4u.co.uk/382-led-extr...er-pr-122.html
    To be honest it`s not much better then the stock bulb.
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  19. #18
    mitch78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWAddict View Post
    ...Except that's NOT what you said. What you said was technically inaccurate. Hence my correction.
    I'm sorry Keith, but most people would understand the two phrases I used to mean the same thing, whether technically accurate or not.

    And here is what I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78 View Post
    LEDs will output LESS light than the standard bulb. They'll look brighter in colour, but that's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78 View Post
    ...the LED replacement will NOT be as bright as his OEM bulb.
    But ignoring that...

    Quote Originally Posted by VWAddict View Post
    Unfortunately there are several other variables which make comparison difficult, but the underlying fact is that if you get enough LEDs of sufficient power correctly lensed, their output will be VASTLY brighter than an equally-powered incandescent light. ALWAYS, AND WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
    Just to be technically accurate, the replacement wouldn't be a 21W LED, would it? So your statement is technically accurate, but VERY MISLEADING.

    Last edited by mitch78; 27th November 2009 at 17:27.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78 View Post
    I'm sorry Keith, but most people would understand the two phrases I used to mean the same thing, whether technically accurate or not.
    People's understanding - whether correct or otherwise- in no way makes your statement accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78 View Post
    Just to be technically accurate, the replacement wouldn't be a 21W LED, would it? So your statement is technically accurate, but VERY MISLEADING.
    In this instance yes. It would have to be for your statement to be in ANY way correct.

    And there's nothing misleading about my statement. It's precisely accurate and I'm being as scrupulously careful as I can be, so as to be in NO way misleading. (which I would point out stands in sharp contrast to your attempt to defend a casually-written point.) kindly don't accuse me of being misleading.

    Keith

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    mitch78's Avatar
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    But it IS misleading, as you seem to be implying that the replacement bulb would be based on LEDs of equal power to the original bulb, which they simply are not, and as far as I'm aware, a 21W LED bulb to fit the reverse light of an A3 isn't available. I understand that that isn't what you're saying, but it could be read that way, and as such may mislead some.

    Anyway, have fun, I'm going out.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78 View Post


    But it IS misleading, as you seem to be implying that the replacement bulb would be based on LEDs of equal power to the original bulb, which they simply are not, and as far as I'm aware, a 21W LED bulb to fit the reverse light of an A3 isn't available. I understand that that isn't what you're saying, but it could be read that way, and as such may mislead some.
    Well, if you're going to resort to THAT line of reasoning, there's really no putting it right, is there?

    I'm NOT saying that, nor did I ever introduce hard numbers (that was your doing) I merely pointed out the -perfectly accurate- fact that your original statement was incorrect. Your original post included NO numbers nor any reference to relative power...

    The facts however, are that comparably powered LEDs output MORE light (and less heat) than their incandescent counterparts, which is quite at odds with your original assertion.

    In case you've forgotten, permit me to remind you:
    LEDs will output LESS light than the standard bulb. They'll look brighter in colour, but that's all.
    Now, tell me how your short (and distinctly oversimplified) post is somehow in any way LESS misleading than my carefully-reasoned comments aiming to show its inaccuracies. -And I mean WITHOUT resorting to tenuous "well... someone might, possibly, conceivably, take it the wrong way" sort of thing" lines of reasoning.

    Really. -I'd be fascinated.

    Keith

  23. #22
    Hammer it!

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    Doh! buy a decent maglight and when revering tell the wife to get out and illuminate your path! Maglights do have many other uses as well and would prove to be a good investment.

    A3 3.2 V6 Sport Quattro, Thinking about changing but whats the point?

  24. #23
    Hammer it!

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    VW Addict, is this an LED Bulb? or can we get one to fit?
    A3 3.2 V6 Sport Quattro, Thinking about changing but whats the point?

  25. #24
    mitch78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWAddict View Post
    Well, if you're going to resort to THAT line of reasoning, there's really no putting it right, is there?

    I'm NOT saying that, nor did I ever introduce hard numbers (that was your doing) I merely pointed out the -perfectly accurate- fact that your original statement was incorrect. Your original post included NO numbers nor any reference to relative power...

    The facts however, are that comparably powered LEDs output MORE light (and less heat) than their incandescent counterparts, which is quite at odds with your original assertion.

    In case you've forgotten, permit me to remind you:
    Now, tell me how your short (and distinctly oversimplified) post is somehow in any way LESS misleading than my carefully-reasoned comments aiming to show its inaccuracies. -And I mean WITHOUT resorting to tenuous "well... someone might, possibly, conceivably, take it the wrong way" sort of thing" lines of reasoning.

    Really. -I'd be fascinated.

    Keith
    You honestly can't see how a technically accurate post could be misleading, can you?

    Anyway, thanks for reminding me of my original post, I had forgotten as it's proving to be quite a long night.

    Maybe I should expand for those unable to read a comment in context.

    The LEDs suitable for replacing an OEM reversing bulb on an 8P A3, while there is a possibility that they may be technically producing more light, will output LESS light which is of any use in illuminating the correct areas of the lamp's reflectors and is highly unlikely to be specifically focussed in a way which illuminates both the nearside kerb and objects behind the vehicle, therefore producing a far less practical illuminated area than the standard bulb. They'll look brighter in colour, but in practical terms that's all.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

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    THERE you go.

    Now that's accurate and non-misleading.

    I've got a spare Sportback rear-light set here, and a bag of 1,000 white 1-Watt LEDs. Together with a CCS driver circuit, I reckon I can make something which draws about 21Watts per side, but produces about as muck light as the average dipped headlight ...only pointing backwards!

    Keith

  27. #26
    mitch78's Avatar
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    Ex 8L S3 driver

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    Cool. -If I was still there, I'd share a beer with you... (-just flew back here this week).



    -MY there were a lot of A3's over in Blighty... Compared to here, I mean. (I see one every 5 or 6 days, that's about all)

    If I do make a reversing light LED frenzy, I'll post pics.



    Keith

  29. #28
    Caesium's Avatar
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    its all about the lumen rating, if you could get LED's to emit the same amount or more lumens as the incandescent original then it would be useful, however the cost of these would be prohibitive.
    LED's are NOT normally an upgrade, just a gimmick at the moment, until their efficiency and cost go in opposite directions
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  30. #29
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    im hoping they start fitting the CREE LED's into car bulbs, that would be really good, but pricey, the only issue i really have with LED's is that they always throw up warning lights.
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    Have you tried using your rear fog to light it up a little more? I know it's red and it probably wouldn't really help, but I've never tried it and thought I'd put the idea out there.

 

 

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