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  1. #1
    david_phillips95's Avatar
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    Forge Catch Can Kit Fitted Today :D

    Recieved my kit on thursday so decided i would get it on today as struggling for free time these days. Think it looks great, not really had a chance to take the car a good drive to see if there is a noticeable difference to the way the engine performs. Also bought the charcoal canister cover just to tidy that corner of the engine bay up. Anyway here's some quick photos i took earlier sorry about the poor quality was dark when i took them:




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  3. #2
    Staz's Avatar
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    Hi David, nice to meet you!

    Are you expecting a difference in performance then? I thought it was a preventative mod rather than enhancement.
    8P2 S3

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    N8
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    Why do you always appear offline Leon


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    david_phillips95's Avatar
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    its really just to stop the inlet gunking up with recirced oil as far as i know, i will let you's know if i notice any gains. i have heard that the engine runs slightly smoother after this mod but time will tell

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    N8
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    Nice one Dave!


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  7. #6
    david_phillips95's Avatar
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    cheers mate, do many people on here run the forge can?

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    N8
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    Warren's got the BSH catch can, how much was it Dave? If u don't mind me asking..


    "Will these wheel fit my car PM's will not be replied to, do you research & use the SEARCH button"

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  9. #8
    david_phillips95's Avatar
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    all in a few quids change from 400 for everythin you see there, for the catch can kit its around 300 i think, bit pricey but IMO it looks more at home than the BSH can.

    Cheers

  10. #9
    Staz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N8KOW View Post
    Why do you always appear offline Leon


    Quote Originally Posted by david_phillips95 View Post
    its really just to stop the inlet gunking up with recirced oil as far as i know, i will let you's know if i notice any gains. i have heard that the engine runs slightly smoother after this mod but time will tell
    I see! I'm interested!
    8P2 S3

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    N8
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    It would be lovely to see you modding the car Leon, even if it was offline


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    Quote Originally Posted by N8KOW View Post
    It would be lovely to see you modding the car Leon, even if it was offline
    I know mate! I want to do a lot to it but I am putting every spare penny into the house fund right now which is more important as my girlfriend is living in Germany still.

    I need a second job!
    8P2 S3

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  13. #12
    N8
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    Well done man, bet you miss her


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    For sure!

    But back to the catch can, as Nathan said, Warren has had this on his car for a while and hasn't mentioned any changes to the engine. But I would imagine they'd only be tiny anyway so perhaps he didn't notice
    8P2 S3

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  15. #14
    N8
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    Looks nice and shiny, but expensive at 400, but time will tell ey...


    "Will these wheel fit my car PM's will not be replied to, do you research & use the SEARCH button"

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  16. #15
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    To be honest,having run 400bhp+ cars with oil separatprs previously,you aren't going to notice a change in the way the engine runs,unless it was ingesting enough oil vapour to induce preignition etc.

    What you are doing,is to add to your engine's long term reliability at high boost.
    Nothing more.

  17. #16
    KRL
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    I installed the BSH catch can on my S3 as well. It is not a performance mod and is more of a engine longevity mod as has already be said.



    The factory PCV is fairly weak and can be prone to failure even at stock so in this case you would see a performance increase by installing a catch can or another pcv fix. When your pcv fails the cr will not be able to produce boost as it should hence a drop off in performance.

    How the PVC system works from Phil@BSH -

    The PCV system on the 2.0T is a complex one but nothing that's to difficult to figure out once you cut it apart on the bandsaw

    The first thing to do is identify what all of these ports are doing.



    PCV Gasses enter the valve cover through the port labeled Crank Inlet .

    Once inside the valve cover there are a series of chambers, baffles, and drains. As gasses move through these ports they will eventually come to the Vacuum Control Diaphragm and Diagnostic Port.

    The vacuum control diaphragm is used while the car is in vacuum. When vacuum is applied to the diaphragm it is sucked down to limit the amount of draw applied to everything behind it. In factory orientation if this diaphragm were to become ripped it would allow so much vacuum to be applied to the pcv system that oil would literally be sucked out of the head and into the motor.

    Heading towards the intake manifold there is a Check Valve This is the valve that is known for failing on these cars. When working properly this valve opens under vacuum and closes under boost.

    When in vacuum pcv gasses are pulled through the diagnostic port and into the intake manifold. When in boost the pcv gasses go out the other side of the diagnostic port and into a passage molded into the valve cover then out the Rear Outlet

    You can follow along with the flow of gasses through this image.




    As far as what the pcv fix cans do it is probably best explained from the horses mouth -

    Phil@BSH
    Allow me to help you with this. Crank case pressures and blowby gasses are a natural part of the combustion process. In order to achieve a smooth running, efficient motor these pressures and gasses need to be vented as otherwise the engines rotation would have to work against these pressures. Emissions requirements for all modern vehicles require these gasses to be recirculated and burned off. The process of how this is done on the 2.0T FSI is explained in the first post of this thread.

    The problem with the factory design is it gives a clear path for positive pressure (boost) to act on the crank ventilation system. In theory the design should work, however in reality the factory check valves leak even on brand new from the dealer parts. This leads to a poor idle, loss of performance, oil being blown all over the place etc. The stage 1 system we offer maintains the factory routing as if the car was always in boost. It utilizes the twin oil separators (one in the oil cooler housing, one in the valve cover as seen above) these are the factory provisions which are decently affective but not even close to perfect. The gasses that are recirculated go through the intercooler piping instead of the alternative is to expose them directly to the intake manifold and intake valve which have no cleaning agent (fuel) passing through do to the direct injection will lead to build up on the valves which creates a huge list of running and performance issues and is an absolute pain to clean.

    This brings us to the catch can systems. The catch can systems take the initial design of the stage 1 kit with its benefits of removing boost from ever acting on the pcv system and the other preventative measures and takes it a step further by providing a baffled container to hold blowby gasses to prevent them making its way back into the motor. Our systems are substantially better than the ebay type parts as not only do they come with necessary vehicle components but also a properly designed baffled catch can. We offer three options, Street, Competition, and Race. Each of these systems have their own sets of charecteristics that allow customers to tailor their part selection to their individual needs.

    Both the Street and Competition systems are recirculating systems. Meaning, the pressures are returned to the intake after passing through a can designed to separate oil blowby. The path to the intake also has the benefit of creating a draw to the crank case which pulls pressure out. The caveat is that the recirculated system will still allow a small amount of blowby to pass, clearly nothing close to what would of otherwise ended up in the motor however.

    The race system is a Vent to Atmosphere (VTA) and has completely different design which utilizes the pressure differential between the crank case and the atmosphere to vent the pressure. Since vacuum is no longer applied to the system we made the very important design decisions to bring in a second port (one for the block, one for the head) to properly vent all the pressures just using the difference in pressures. Properly designed VTA systems will allow 0 blowby to re-enter the motor and is the best choice in this regard. The trade off for this system is since the gasses are vented to atmosphere there is a scent associated with it and the car will not pass a visual emissions inspection in areas where recirculated crank case gasses are required. This is the system we use on our 500 bhp 2.0t FSI.

    As you can see, each of our pcv solutions has their own target market allowing all customers to cater their project needs with our parts. This info should be found helpful for anyone who is in the researching stage.
    I spent a lot of time researching this so if you have any other questions then please let me know and I will try to help.

    As always with Forge products the solution looks well engineered and very good.
    Last edited by KRL; 22nd November 2009 at 10:20.
    Ice Silver S3 + every single option + REVO + BSH Street Can + Forge Twintake + Autotech


  18. #17
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    @david_phillips95. I don`t see any sight glass/pipe on the can so how are you going to see how much oil is in the can and when to empty it? I hope there are some very good baffles in that can to divert the incomming fumes downward as both the inlet and outlet pipe are at the same level. If not the gasess will just blow straight into and around the inside of the tank and back out the outlet pipe. Where is the drain off on the can and looks like you are going to have to remove the can to empty-check the levels constantly.
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
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    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

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  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by devonmikeyboy View Post
    @david_phillips95. I don`t see any sight glass/pipe on the can so how are you going to see how much oil is in the can and when to empty it? I hope there are some very good baffles in that can to divert the incomming fumes downward as both the inlet and outlet pipe are at the same level. If not the gasess will just blow straight into and around the inside of the tank and back out the outlet pipe. Where is the drain off on the can and looks like you are going to have to remove the can to empty-check the levels constantly.
    you can see the sight glass in this picture


    Internal Baffling

    Heres a cut open view


    Its easy to remove when it does eventually need emptied it will be a doddle, the drain plug is on the bottom of the unit.

    Cheers

  20. #19
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Excellent description David.....many thanks for the breakdown of the PCV system.

  21. #20
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    Sorry if it seemed i was having a go at you david_phillips95 no insult intended just asking and thanks for the very imformative reply. Any reason you went for this type of catch can over other makes/models as Forge do a much cheaper can i have seen on a lot of other peoples cars which is ment to be baffled etc.
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

  22. #21
    KRL
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    Excellent description David.....many thanks for the breakdown of the PCV system.
    It was me that posted the breakdown of the PCV system
    Ice Silver S3 + every single option + REVO + BSH Street Can + Forge Twintake + Autotech


  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by devonmikeyboy View Post
    Sorry if it seemed i was having a go at you david_phillips95 no insult intended just asking and thanks for the very imformative reply. Any reason you went for this type of catch can over other makes/models as Forge do a much cheaper can i have seen on a lot of other peoples cars which is ment to be baffled etc.
    Dont worry about it no harm done, After looking at the BSH vs Forge i decided to go with the forge, i just prefer how it looks, where it is located and the fact it is larger so will hold more waste. Im sure the BSH catch can will do the same job just didnt appeal to me cosmetically. I havent seen any other forge catch cans listed for the 2.0tfsi? are you refering to a universal kit? The kit i bought comes with everything needed to install to the 2.0tfsi, here is the kit below in black.



    Cheers

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    In laymans terms, what the hell is it??????????????

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonstarS3 View Post
    In laymans terms, what the hell is it??????????????
    A forge catch can kit, read the thread lol

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    Its far to technical for me pal lol, was hoping for a brief description instead of trying to decipher all the technical wizardry and diagrams.

  27. #26
    N8
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    LOL @ Ron


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  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRL View Post
    It was me that posted the breakdown of the PCV system
    That'd be thanks to you then!...and my apologies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonstarS3 View Post
    Its far to technical for me pal lol, was hoping for a brief description instead of trying to decipher all the technical wizardry and diagrams.


    Quote Originally Posted by david_phillips95 View Post
    its really just to stop the inlet gunking up with recirced oil as far as i know.

  30. #29
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  31. #30
    G"MAN's Avatar
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    with my 2ltfsi.. ive been having abit of a problem with boost issues and was reading this and it kinda makes sence. all the old oil vapur is going back into the engine cousing clogging a problems and a result could be b boost problems so i belive... is this right??

    .if that is right do you reckon the catch can pcv system will help the boost isues.
    i allready have the forge dv fitted so i know that is in good working order..

    could someone just advise if that is the problem
    thanks graham.

  32. #31
    KRL
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    The build up of gunk is unlikely to be causing you boost issues. Much more likely is that the factory PVC may have failed. Therefore you could fix it by installing a catch can or one of the other pcv fixes.

    Bear in mind that boost problems could be caused by many other things as well like boost leaks or a diverter valve being on the way out. So before spending your hard earned make sure you know what the problem is first.
    Ice Silver S3 + every single option + REVO + BSH Street Can + Forge Twintake + Autotech


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    ive checked all the boost pipes and i already have the forge dv fitted so uprated allready and thats all tight so its more than likley that then i would have thought..

    i think i shal order the BSH kit wotht he trues seal induction aswell . lol

    i shal let you know if it works thanks buddy.

    G

  34. #33
    KRL
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    Sounds good!

    Good luck and give me shout if you have any more questions
    Ice Silver S3 + every single option + REVO + BSH Street Can + Forge Twintake + Autotech


  35. #34
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    The Forge catch can is designed specifically for the VAG engines , you will find that the internal baffleing works very well . we only supply the kits with Flourosilicon hoses as in time the oil will cause the hose to deteriorate
    have a look here to see what will come out of your catch can

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVRad3aPdVA

    a good review here
    http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=244397

    and here
    http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/show...98#post2713498

  36. #35
    KRL
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    Nice or should I say yuk!!

    For me installing the catch can is a no brainier if you plan on keeping the car for any prolonged length of time.
    Ice Silver S3 + every single option + REVO + BSH Street Can + Forge Twintake + Autotech


  37. #36
    Forge's Avatar
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    yes its nasty mess

  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forge View Post
    yes its nasty mess
    Forge be aware that Borat seems to have hacked your ASN account.

  39. #38
    Forge's Avatar
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    I do not understand...sorry

  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forge View Post
    I do not understand...sorry
    Just a lame joke mate, don't worry though I ordered my own taxi.

  41. #40
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    got it ...sorry ...bit slow in the head down in Gloucester this morning

 

 
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