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  1. #1
    boggysv's Avatar
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    I feel so slow in the S3 :(

    Maybe it's just me being a ****ty driver, but last weekend, I did a run along some back twisty roads with some friends, and couldnt keep up.

    There was a cayman S and a mini cooper s, although both have some suspension work done, I didnt expect them to pull away so quickly that I cant see the taillights anymore in 3-4 corners.

    Wasnt putting much hope to chase the cayman in the first place, but the mini had ~40 horses handicap from the S3!!! Quattro didnt seem to provide any advantage, and based on the brake lights (when they still can be seen), the guy was braking a whole lot less. I tried to brake later than I normally would and the tyres would scream for help in the corner almost plowing straight.


    few weeks ago we did another different drive and I was alright with the pace.




    p/s this is not a street race, just a run at some deserted hill route.
    </end of rant>


    Can someone say something comforting so I dont feel sad anymore?
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  3. #2
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    Try BSM.

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  4. #3
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    I think your asking rather a lot from an S3/A3 in std form. Its hardly renowned as a drivers car. I think we discussed this a week or so back when someone commented how quick it was on the track. I find on ordinary roads you need to be very brave or very stupid to really push it as it gets unsettled very easily by a few bumps on a fast corner ! that said with a few suspension mods most of this could be sorted (and i don't mean lowering it..lol).
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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwiggy View Post
    Try BSM.

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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by boggysv View Post
    Maybe it's just me being a ****ty driver, but last weekend, I did a run along some back twisty roads with some friends, and couldnt keep up.

    There was a cayman S and a mini cooper s, although both have some suspension work done, I didnt expect them to pull away so quickly that I cant see the taillights anymore in 3-4 corners.

    Wasnt putting much hope to chase the cayman in the first place, but the mini had ~40 horses handicap from the S3!!! Quattro didnt seem to provide any advantage, and based on the brake lights (when they still can be seen), the guy was braking a whole lot less. I tried to brake later than I normally would and the tyres would scream for help in the corner almost plowing straight.


    few weeks ago we did another different drive and I was alright with the pace.




    p/s this is not a street race, just a run at some deserted hill route.
    </end of rant>


    Can someone say something comforting so I dont feel sad anymore?
    GET IT REMAPPED!!! REVO!!! i did at the weekend and got 328bhp!! now the car goes like shi* off a shovel!!
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  7. #6
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    Now thats a good photo...Some bright colours! Is your car standard?

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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3RYE View Post
    GET IT REMAPPED!!! REVO!!! i did at the weekend and got 328bhp!! now the car goes like shi* off a shovel!!

    What other mods have you done to get 328bhp? that can't be with just a map!

  9. #8
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    When I took my A3 2.0TQ (with Bluefin) on the 'Ring there was a Cooper S on my tail all the way until Carousel where someone got in my way and the mini went past and I never saw it again. I was convinced it had been remapped but we chatted to the guys afterwards and it was standard!

    I guess Minis are just THAT good and THAT easy to push to their limits.
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  10. #9
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    Said it before, but the Cooper S is a quality little machine and is well suited to the twisties, plus it only weights around 1200 kg. I am sure there have been a lot of drivers - in more expensive and powerful machinery - thinking exactly the same, but yeah, get it mapped.

    Oh, has that Mini had its braked fettled too?

  11. #10
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    The mini's do handle and they drive well on twisty roads. If it was a new CooperS (turbo) it will tag you to about 50-60 where you will then start to pull away. The Audi is a heavy beast! In the wet you will be able to see a huge difference. But as everyone is saying, get it mapped and the Audi will shine in the wet or dry.
    Was it a Works Mini with diff?

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  12. #11
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    Weird this. Our other car is a Cooper S (Mk1 supercharged version) and it is much slower than the S3 - although my S3 is modified. If you throw the Mini at a corner too fast the wheels scrabble and you are thrown off line. The power band is also much less accessible than in a (remapped) S3.

    Was the Mini a JCW or a turbocharged version perhaps ? Dunno ....
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  13. #12
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    I used to Drive a cooperS (supercharged) and recently upgraded to my S3
    My younger brother now drives the cooper So i still get to drive it.

    No offence, but there is no way the mini will keep up with the S3 in the twisties... So i'd have to say the problem was with the driver. in the S3 you can accelerate much MUCH earlier coming out of the turns, and your power is available right at the exit. The mini is an awesome little machine and I loved it... But on the same routes I take now in the S3 i can get much higher speeds in the corners with more control then the mini ever had....

  14. #13
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    I had a 2004 MCS (modded) prior to the S3. I would expect the MINI would be as quick in lower speed corners and on downhill sections, but the S3 (in theory) should be able to run a bit quicker than the MINI on more open and flowing corners and uphill sections.

    That said, the MINIs are awesome cars. It will change direction a lot more easily than the S3 and is a lot more nimble. Although, the comment above about being able to get on the gas sooner in the S3 is true. Haldex makes a solid difference, that's for sure.

    Did the other guys know the road better than you? That can make a big, big difference.

    I was out on one of my favourite twisties the other day in the S3 and I had a guy in a GTI driving the road for the first time. He dropped off pretty quickly as the conditions were wet and the road was unfamiliar to him. It wasn't the car either, as I was not pushing too hard and would have been able to match the same pace if I was in our GTI I reckon.
    Last edited by Lima; 26th October 2009 at 10:21.
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  15. #14
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    FWIW I am talking MK2 Turbo; but looking at the 'green machine' it looks like MK1.

    Irrespective of the vehicles in the comparison, the unknown quantity here are the drivers and their commitment to the drive on the day.
    Last edited by AuldReekie; 26th October 2009 at 11:50. Reason: typo

  16. #15
    Lima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuldReekie View Post
    FWIW I am talking MK2 Turbo; but looking at the 'green machine' it looks like MK1.
    Yep, that's an R53 (turbo is R56).
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  17. #16
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    I've shared tracks with several Mini's and have to say they are mega impressive at holding speed through corners but have yet to come across one that left the S3 behind, I think the weight disadvantage may have played a hand but a remap will certainly sort this out for you.

    A well driven Cayman S is a different matter, cracking car when driven well.
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  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydie View Post
    What other mods have you done to get 328bhp? that can't be with just a map!
    no other mods!

    went to Amd on saturday for a stage 1 revo remap..

    roliing road was..

    standard: 280 bhp
    after remap (run 1) 324bhp
    after remap (run 2) 328bhp

    having owned a modified cooper s i will tell you they are more than capable of keeping up with a lot of fast cars! and it doesnt suprise me at all that it was able to leave a standard s3....

    i had a 2005 cooper s with the same sort of spec as this one minus a few bits but it was running a healthy 230+bhp and it was very quick through bends with limited slipp diff and GTT strut brace!

    but no way is it faster than my S3 now! get yaself a revo now!!
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  19. #18
    Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    I'm currently driving an R56 with works tuning kit, mods ( 220hp )and suspension mods. I've ordered an S3 after test driving one for 24hrs.

    There is no way driven like for like that the MINI will get away, it'd struggle to keep up depending on the road. Mine turns in better and changes direction better but has far less grip than the S3 and is not as quick even in modded form.

    Throw in a badly rutted road nether mind wet conditions and the S3 will easily pull away. I could drive the S3 faster along known roads in that 24hr period than i can in my MINI.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japper View Post
    I'm currently driving an R56 with works tuning kit, mods ( 220hp )and suspension mods. I've ordered an S3 after test driving one for 24hrs.

    There is no way driven like for like that the MINI will get away, it'd struggle to keep up depending on the road. Mine turns in better and changes direction better but has far less grip than the S3 and is not as quick even in modded form.

    Throw in a badly rutted road nether mind wet conditions and the S3 will easily pull away. I could drive the S3 faster along known roads in that 24hr period than i can in my MINI.
    only ever driven a std r56 which no offence was pants... but that was coming from my heavily modified r53 oh well who cares its all about s3's mate they r the shi*
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  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3RYE View Post
    roliing road was..

    standard: 280 bhp
    after remap (run 1) 324bhp
    after remap (run 2) 328bhp
    Dont you have Figures for ATW?

    How are you getting 280HP standard? when the car is rated at 260 ?

    I got 260HP at the wheels with Stage 1 SW (not revo), Forge CAI, 76mm DP, Decat.
    Last edited by KeepItTidy; 26th October 2009 at 10:54.

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    Power is nothing without control. Do a proper driver training course, i did this one.

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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japper View Post
    I'm currently driving an R56 with works tuning kit, mods ( 220hp )and suspension mods. I've ordered an S3 after test driving one for 24hrs.

    There is no way driven like for like that the MINI will get away, it'd struggle to keep up depending on the road. Mine turns in better and changes direction better but has far less grip than the S3 and is not as quick even in modded form.

    Throw in a badly rutted road nether mind wet conditions and the S3 will easily pull away. I could drive the S3 faster along known roads in that 24hr period than i can in my MINI.
    soz to hear about your experience boggy but I have to agree with some of the guys and sounds to me like the other drivers knew the road better and were more confident than you...

    As japper says there's now way an R56 MCS will out run the S3 with similar skilled drivers behind the wheels... The MINI does become unsettled very quickly if you go off line, lacks the torque and ability to accelerate out of corners faster and doesn't give you the same levels of confidence behind the wheel. Some cool pics there though and sounds like the run was good fun! Once you get to know your cab you'll be able to exploit her full potential....
    Last edited by gabrialboy; 26th October 2009 at 12:01.
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  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepItTidy View Post
    Dont you have Figures for ATW?

    How are you getting 280HP standard? when the car is rated at 260 ?

    I got 260HP at the wheels with Stage 1 SW (not revo), Forge CAI, 76mm DP, Decat.

    KiT, not having mine dyno'd standard I can't speak from personal experience, but there have been a lot of threads on here recently (the AMD group* buy for one) which report the 'bogo' S3 bhp figure as being extremely conservative for the most part. Mitch has posted some figures on here with some standard S3 RR figures and almost to a car they were far higher than the manufacturers figures - that said your figures would suggest otherwise. Who knows the reason for that, but I would imagine the variations in RR testing will be a factor.

    *Post 205> AMD Technik Group Buy (KRL also did a separate thread)
    Last edited by AuldReekie; 26th October 2009 at 12:14.

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepItTidy View Post
    Dont you have Figures for ATW?

    How are you getting 280HP standard? when the car is rated at 260 ?

    I got 260HP at the wheels with Stage 1 SW (not revo), Forge CAI, 76mm DP, Decat.
    dont know really.. ask shaun at Amd.. they arew the figures i have the printout infront of me!! and unless Amd secretly put on some extra stealth parts i dont know!??

    when he told me the figures i was like woahh! he said it was prob cause i been runnning v power its whole life..

    ive also heard when manufacturers put out bhp figures they are based on the average fuel grade across regions being sold. E.g in america i think the economy fuel is 91ron? (i stand corrected) here its 95ron.. if runnin v power over standard unleaded (a difference of 4ron) makes such a difference then they have to take the average grade fuel and base it on that.. imagine they based the BHP on 91ron fuel.. maybe we would get 300bhp standard on RR??

    i dunno maybe its a myth but all i care about is Amd are a very renouned tuning company.. they do hundreds upon hundreds of remaps a year and i think theyre a pretty safe bet in terms of RR figures... im happy! it sure goes like a 330hp car!!
    Last edited by S3RYE; 26th October 2009 at 13:14.
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  26. #25
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    There quite a few guys on here who S3 are standard and running more than 265bhp easy. Check these two threads out
    Question for S3 owners....
    And below is Prosport Rolling Road, it seems to be pretty common S3 showing over 280bhp.
    Prosport Rolling road day results


    Quote Originally Posted by KeepItTidy View Post
    Dont you have Figures for ATW?

    How are you getting 280HP standard? when the car is rated at 260 ?

    I got 260HP at the wheels with Stage 1 SW (not revo), Forge CAI, 76mm DP, Decat.
    Last edited by Ash B; 26th October 2009 at 13:17.
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    Here in SA, we get a seriously detuned version..
    Its rated at 250HP at the Fly, and on the dyno here (at altitude) it makes
    215HP atw.

    Proabably has alot to do with our **** quality 95RON fuel.

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    S3RYE, i believe you mate. Just shocked at the Standard performance you guys get!

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    Ouch! Not good!

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepItTidy View Post
    Here in SA, we get a seriously detuned version..
    Its rated at 250HP at the Fly, and on the dyno here (at altitude) it makes
    215HP atw.

    Proabably has alot to do with our **** quality 95RON fuel.
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  30. #29
    S3RYE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepItTidy View Post
    S3RYE, i believe you mate. Just shocked at the Standard performance you guys get!
    lol sorry if i came across a little asssyyy! im not sayin you dont believe me! its just another member has great results myself last week and a few members started bein funny sayin Amd's figures are blown up and a load of BS! maybe i got a little defensive
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  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3RYE View Post
    lol sorry if i came across a little asssyyy! im not sayin you dont believe me! its just another member has great results myself last week and a few members started bein funny sayin Amd's figures are blown up and a load of BS! maybe i got a little defensive

    I don't think that was the case to be fair, and in any event the guy with the 'blown' figures remark appologised to AmD - you can't say fairer that that, sleeping dogs and all that...

    I don't think anyone - on any post - is inferring the OP is lying, but the variation in results in naturally confusing and I could see their point: forever and a day Revo 1, 2 and 2+ figures were at a sort of standard and everyone knew what to expect, then the last set of figures have completely blown those "normal" figures out of the water, so no wonder people are confused/excited/sceptical (delete as appropriate).

    I am pleased that you (and the other guys) have had such good results; the last AmD tuning GB is producing some excellent results, so more power to them.

  32. #31
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    You have to remember you have posted this on an AUDI forum, the majority of replies will say the S3 is faster and it's the driver at fault. Post the same thing on a MINI forum and everyone will say the MINI is quicker because it's a quicker car.

    To the OP, you know yourself if your a capable driver or not, if you don't think it's your fault, then theres no reason to be shocked at the fact the other two pulled away.
    The mini is a lighter, better handling car with a similar power to weight ratio, I wouldn't be surprised if it pulled away.

    People forget that the S3 is a fast executive hatchback, not a track car, big bhp means nothing.

  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    You have to remember you have posted this on an AUDI forum, the majority of replies will say the S3 is faster and it's the driver at fault. Post the same thing on a MINI forum and everyone will say the MINI is quicker because it's a quicker car.

    To the OP, you know yourself if your a capable driver or not, if you don't think it's your fault, then theres no reason to be shocked at the fact the other two pulled away.
    The mini is a lighter, better handling car with a similar power to weight ratio, I wouldn't be surprised if it pulled away.

    People forget that the S3 is a fast executive hatchback, not a track car, big bhp means nothing.
    I have to agree crunch thats why i said this morning that the S3/A3 is not really going to match a Mini or a Caymen on the twistys in std trim. you can turn my A3 in hard on some bends and you never really know if it will under steer, over steer or just not steer . 99% of the time its fine as it happens but there is little or no feed back through the steering wheel.Especiallyy in the wet !. It is still a good car for what it is designed for but the fact that you have to chip it to 320bhp + to match a quick std mini speaks volumes.
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  34. #33
    DeckedS3's Avatar
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    I personally think, stick the same driver in each car on the same road, Mini/S3 and you'll find the S3 is quicker.

    Meteor S3, APR Stage 3, APR HPFP, Milltek TBE, LOBA/Sach's Clutch, Bilstein PSS10's, H&R ARB, Gen4 Haldex PP, EVOM's DV & CAI, Forge TB with Pro-Alloy IC, BBS CK 19" My S3

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeckedS3 View Post
    I personally think, stick the same driver in each car on the same road, Mini/S3 and you'll find the S3 is quicker.
    I do - regularly. And it is.
    I own both cars so feel pretty well placed to comment. Even before my S3 was modified it was quicker than our Cooper S in every situation. Not sure what else there is to say.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  36. #35
    Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    You have to remember you have posted this on an AUDI forum, the majority of replies will say the S3 is faster and it's the driver at fault. Post the same thing on a MINI forum and everyone will say the MINI is quicker because it's a quicker car.

    To the OP, you know yourself if your a capable driver or not, if you don't think it's your fault, then theres no reason to be shocked at the fact the other two pulled away.
    The mini is a lighter, better handling car with a similar power to weight ratio, I wouldn't be surprised if it pulled away.

    People forget that the S3 is a fast executive hatchback, not a track car, big bhp means nothing.
    I'm not in an S3 yet, but have owned two mini's R53 & R56's both tuned to 220hp and my first drive in the S3 proved to be faster. The mini's are good but ride very hard and so on broken brittish black top they are compromised..................but fun on every roundabout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    I do - regularly. And it is.
    I own both cars so feel pretty well placed to comment. Even before my S3 was modified it was quicker than our Cooper S in every situation. Not sure what else there is to say.
    enough said and agree totally.

  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by boggysv View Post
    Maybe it's just me being a ****ty driver, but last weekend, I did a run along some back twisty roads with some friends, and couldnt keep up.

    There was a cayman S and a mini cooper s, although both have some suspension work done, I didnt expect them to pull away so quickly that I cant see the taillights anymore in 3-4 corners.

    Wasnt putting much hope to chase the cayman in the first place, but the mini had ~40 horses handicap from the S3!!! Quattro didnt seem to provide any advantage, and based on the brake lights (when they still can be seen), the guy was braking a whole lot less. I tried to brake later than I normally would and the tyres would scream for help in the corner almost plowing straight.


    few weeks ago we did another different drive and I was alright with the pace.




    p/s this is not a street race, just a run at some deserted hill route.
    </end of rant>


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  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanoir View Post
    How much do you weigh??


    Very good point!

    Meteor S3, APR Stage 3, APR HPFP, Milltek TBE, LOBA/Sach's Clutch, Bilstein PSS10's, H&R ARB, Gen4 Haldex PP, EVOM's DV & CAI, Forge TB with Pro-Alloy IC, BBS CK 19" My S3

  39. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    The mini is a lighter, better handling car with a similar power to weight ratio.
    .



    Do you own/drive both regularly? How do you figure that?

    Cause As I've said, (and I drive both), the S3 is a better car in all aspects.
    Breaking,cornering speeds,exit speeds,acceleration.
    and every1 who drives both cars agrees with me on this one, except you?

    Oh, and we still havent heard if that mini that pulled away was standard.
    By the looks of it.. it looks far from Stock

  40. #39
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    Done any track driving before?

    Experience counts for about a billion times more than anything else. Seriously.

    I've done a few trackdays in my 400hp Nissan Silvia with semi-slicks, race suspension, the works...and dudes there who've been track racing for years and years equal or better my times in a worn out old 89 Honda Integra. Such is life.

    After experience, the next factor would be committment. Then comes actual stuff like the speed of the car etc!

  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitor View Post
    Done any track driving before?

    Experience counts for about a billion times more than anything else. Seriously.

    I've done a few trackdays in my 400hp Nissan Silvia with semi-slicks, race suspension, the works...and dudes there who've been track racing for years and years equal or better my times in a worn out old 89 Honda Integra. Such is life.

    After experience, the next factor would be committment. Then comes actual stuff like the speed of the car etc!

    +1

 

 
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