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  1. #1
    PaulAr's Avatar
    S3 (8P)

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    VAG DMFs&Clutches - RUBBISH!!

    So, after only 8K or so with REVO stage 1 my clutch has started to slip. Pretty much the same as my Golf did after the same time and same map..

    My car is an Oct 07 so Im guessing it has the early non-Sachs version?

    Has anyone had this problem with a std or Stage 1 car and had it cured with the later SACHS DMF/clutch combo?

    Replicating the problem at the dealer on the stock map will be impossible as it will be a while before the clutch/DMF has deteriorated where it would slip when on a test drive with an AUDI Tech on board.

    Had this problem before, because it wouldnt slip on a test drive the dealer couldnt carry out any warrnaty work as I couldnt prove there was anything wrong with the car.
    Eventually after 3 visits I ended up paying a local independant to strip the clutch down to prove to VW that the DMF was completely knackered and get VW to replace everything under warranty.
    Which they did.
    Although it still cost me 50 labour and 50 recovery.

    Anyhoo, not wanting to go through this again, I was thinking about just taking the car in with the REVO map installed, replicate the fault, assume the tech wont notice (or care) that the car is a bit `pokier` than the norm and hopefully get the lot done under warranty.
    Is it a fair assumption that unless a Tech drives S3s all of the time he wont notice the extra power?
    And if he did, would they go to the trouble of running logs? Without ny prior consent?

    What say you guys?
    Ideas/comments appreciated.

    Oh, and the car is std except for REVO stage 1, no bolt ons etc. just a magic tree an chewies in the armrest


    cheers
    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

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  3. #2
    PaulAr's Avatar
    S3 (8P)

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    Bump.

    Anyone had experiences with DMF/clutch failure on a remapped car and had warranty issues?

    cheers
    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  4. #3
    just017's Avatar
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    Do you have the Revo switch?

    If so, you could try going out with a tech with the revo map on, get him to see the fault then flash the standard map back?

    Otherwise i'd just keep the Revo on.
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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    Bump.

    Anyone had experiences with DMF/clutch failure on a remapped car and had warranty issues?

    cheers
    Paul
    ive just had my 09 s3 with about 6000 miles done remapped with superships , bluefin ,and have noticed a slight slipping of the clutch too,,,,,,,,,,, gggrrrr

    lse s3

  6. #5
    Spin140's Avatar
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    We can't really complain the clutch is crap if we map and exceed its max, I get the odd slip but accept it as part of the the tuning process, having said that I'd take it in with revo on, demonstrate the slip on your initial visit then revert to standard when the work is being done as they are unlikely to test it for slip again, tech's really aren't that interested once its been rubber stamped by HQ.
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  7. #6
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just017 View Post
    Do you have the Revo switch?

    If so, you could try going out with a tech with the revo map on, get him to see the fault then flash the standard map back?

    Otherwise i'd just keep the Revo on.
    Will probably go this route, cheers
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  8. #7
    Staz's Avatar
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    Had no clutch slippage this end with Bluefin for 20k now so I guess it's not the same sort.

    It's all down to the tech on the day with regards to him noticing the remap. Even if he suspects something he's not exactly going to accuse you and you can just put the original map back on.
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  9. #8
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin140 View Post
    We can't really complain the clutch is crap if we map and exceed its max, I get the odd slip but accept it as part of the the tuning process, having said that I'd take it in with revo on, demonstrate the slip on your initial visit then revert to standard when the work is being done as they are unlikely to test it for slip again, tech's really aren't that interested once its been rubber stamped by HQ.
    Fair point, but its the fact the clutch & DMF are so marginal that I find frustrating.

    Historically you never had to be uprating clutches and flywheels until you were into more hardcore power increases.

    I would have though that a 12% power increase would be within the design limits of any of on S3s main components?
    Especially one of this marque and price level.

    It doesnt instill much confidence for long term durability even for standard cars.
    Especially with some decent standard std power anyway AND 4wd.

    I work in Engineering and you simply never supply equipment with such marginal components.

    End of whinge (again).

    Bit worrying that IswS3 and yourself are having probs on a facelifted car which Im assuming has the most up to date clutch/DMF.

    Think a visit te dealer with REVO map on.

    Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

    cheers
    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  10. #9
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    A lot is going to be down to the driving style as well as the overall torque,and mine lasted nearly 11000 miles on the OEM clutch before Revo Stage 2+ finally killed it.

    You would have to say that a nearly 40% torque increase on a stock clutch isn't too bad before it fails,but I know a lot of people have had problems with the (un)LUK(y) clutch.

    My driving style has generally been quite easy on clutches with uprated engines previously and maybe that's how I dragged a decent mileage out of it,but the overall view seems to be that the LUK is marginal at best.

  11. #10
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    A lot is going to be down to the driving style as well as the overall torque,and mine lasted nearly 11000 miles on the OEM clutch before Revo Stage 2+ finally killed it.

    You would have to say that a nearly 40% torque increase on a stock clutch isn't too bad before it fails,but I know a lot of people have had problems with the (un)LUK(y) clutch.

    My driving style has generally been quite easy on clutches with uprated engines previously and maybe that's how I dragged a decent mileage out of it,but the overall view seems to be that the LUK is marginal at best.
    Im guessing mine has the early LUK unit as its a Oct 2007 car?

    Reckon I will try and get a warranty replacement for (hopefully) the later SACHS combo.

    Previously VW claimed that the clutch was a `consumable item` and therefore only covered for the first 6months, so it will be interesting to see what AUDI say.
    That said, if its the DMF, (which is was last time on my Golf with identical symptoms) it will be covered and the clutch is changed at the same time as it usually suffers consequential damage due to the failed DMF.

    This is a right old De ja Vu for me, bit gutted.

    cheers
    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  12. #11
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Mine is a July 08 car and still had this LUK thing,so I don't know when the revision to Sachs as an OEM supplier occurred.

    It's certainly not a cheap job,and one reason why I loathe DMF's is having to replace both clutch and flywheel.

  13. #12
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    No problems with my clutch yet , at a total of 20k miles, the last 10k done with revo stage 1, this is on a nov 07 car.

    Driving style will have a big effect on the life of the clutch, if you're doing a lot of hard starts that will kill it pretty quick.

  14. #13
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julians View Post
    No problems with my clutch yet , at a total of 20k miles, the last 10k done with revo stage 1, this is on a nov 07 car.

    Driving style will have a big effect on the life of the clutch, if you're doing a lot of hard starts that will kill it pretty quick.
    Same here, 20K miles, 10K with REVO stage 1, 10K stock.

    Pretty much never trafffic light GPs and even then there is no heavy launches, the car does get `used` but it tends to be in the higher gears so the clutch doent get abused through the low gears.

    However I do spend most eves in heavy traffic so lots of low speed stop start driving but that would be the same with standard car and you would expect more than 20K from a clutch?

    There certainly seems to be inconsistencies in DMF and clutch life with S3s so hopefully a will get a good`un under warranty.

    cheers

    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  15. #14
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Spin140;808336]I get the odd slip but accept it as part of the the tuning process, QUOTE]

    Slip is intermitent at the minute, is yours more prone when the car is cold or has `just warmed up`?

    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  16. #15
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    Is the slip occuring in a particular gear or in a particular condition?

    I think mine is slipping at aroud 3-4krpm in third when i'm fully flat. Does this seem right?
    I'm not sure if it is clutch slip (it can't bee wheel spin) as i've never experienced it before but it seems that the revs spike for a bit and acceleration dips. I'm on revo stage 1 to be clear.

    Also, what is the DMF?

  17. #16
    just017's Avatar
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