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Thread: 170 Vs 140 TDI

  1. #1
    piers90's Avatar
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    170 Vs 140 TDI

    this evening (on a private road) me in my 2.0tdi 170 quattro, and my mate in his new shape golf 2.0tdi 140 did a drag to see what the difference would be like. to my surprise he was basically in my boot and i wasn't able to pull away AT ALL up to the speed of around 69mph (then we slowed down)... is this normal? i was thinking of going to audi and asking them whats wrong. i feel coned into buying the 170 now... ha.
    have any of you had this 'problem' as such?

    Piers

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    unkle's Avatar
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    Your A3 + Quattro will weigh a lot more than the Golf...
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    Is your 170 a PD engine or the new CR? Sounds like your mate has the Mk6 140CR which is a very good engine.
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    NHN
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    I reckon he had the new engine as I had a drive as passenger in new 140 & it was bloody torquey, very nippy indeed, so dont feel down, lol

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    With all things equal and as standard with all the relevant weights, your A3 should be about a second to a second and a half quicker to 60'ish than his Golf, which should have you noticably pulling away from your mate.

    BUT.....
    Maybe for that "drag" he drove better... e.g. gear changes....
    AND maybe his is slightly quicker than a standard Golf 140 out of the box, and your's is spot on the standard A3 170.
    AND maybe your traction control interfered a bit during this drag, and his didn't.
    AND maybe you're heavier than him.
    AND maybe his tyres are better than yours.

    The list could go on and on, so there are loads of possible reasons where that second (or so) you should've had over him could've been lost.

    I wouldn't worry about it.... (even though I probably would!!! )
    Last edited by Ads; 7th September 2009 at 12:41.

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    Same power and torque as the old engine, so can't imagine why it would feel "more" torquey? But agree with the weight thing, four wheel drive does sap power.
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    mine is a 2007 engine and his is the new engine..i did have my traction control turned off... the only reason i was infront of him was because of the quattro launching me forward off the line!!
    but am very dissapointed with the apparent 170 engine.. i was hoping to be pulling away a bit easier than how it turned out .. owel.. thanks for the help guys..


    Piers
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    Defo worth the wait :)

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    LOL...dont worry about it dude, your car looks better than his

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    Quote Originally Posted by aythreee View Post
    With all things equal and as standard with all the relevant weights, your A3 should be about a second to a second and a half quicker to 60'ish than his Golf, which should have you noticably pulling away from your mate.

    BUT.....
    Maybe for that "drag" he drove better... e.g. gear changes....
    AND maybe his is slightly quicker than a standard Golf 140 out of the box, and your's is spot on the standard A3 170.
    AND maybe your traction control interfered a bit during this drag, and his didn't.
    AND maybe you're heavier than him.
    AND maybe his tyres are better than yours.

    The list could go on and on, so there are loads of possible reasons where that second (or so) you should've had over him could've been lost.

    I wouldn't worry about it.... (even though I probably would!!! )
    All good points.

    Try adding some rain, or bends, into the next private road dash next time, and see what happens.

    OP- Just remap it.

    Or buy a 20TFSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    Or buy a 20TFSI
    Very true!!
    Then he could've achieved the 69mph using only one gear change.... instead of the five required in a diesel!!


    *double*

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    Quote Originally Posted by aythreee View Post
    Very true!!
    Then he could've achieved the 69mph using only one gear change.... instead of the five required in a diesel!!


    *double*


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    haha them golfs r nippy ****ers...

    in my 8P PD140 i was just about keeping up with a 2.0 TDI i thought i would be quicker.

    Here you're solution...

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    NHN
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    Little advice andy, edit the swearing before u get told of.

    Continuing on with thread, look the new engines are literally more pokey than old, its a fact, so cant see why its an issue, they are very nippy simple as that & doesnt mean his car is crap, afterall its 170 not a 250 3.2 v6, so cant see problem, given the added variables like weight etc, seems fine to me.

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    Well I think it's a bit frustrating even if it is not e 3.2 engine but I think that it wasn't the Golf who was fast but the Audi was slow.
    The Audi may be heavier than the Golf, due to quattro, maybe the Golf had DSG that really makes a difference also maybe the Audi's clutch is slipping...
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    I see can see why your bit pi**ed off tho mate.
    Last edited by dantdi; 7th September 2009 at 16:10.

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    Assuming that the driver and amount of fuel in each car is the same theres about a 125kg difference between the two cars, maybe he got some better gear changes or his tires have better grip, I wouldnt be too miffed about it to be honest...

    Is swearing banned now?
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    There are two reasons the lower powered Golf kept up the the Audi.
    1 ) The Audi was a quattro so will have about double the transmission losses ( 28% ) compared to the FWD Golf ( 14% ).
    2 ) The Golf was a lot lighter therefore had a higher BHP/tonne then the Audi.
    Simple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by devonmikeyboy View Post
    There are two reasons the lower powered Golf kept up the the Audi.
    1 ) The Audi was a quattro so will have about double the transmission losses ( 28% ) compared to the FWD Golf ( 14% ).
    2 ) The Golf was a lot lighter therefore had a higher BHP/tonne then the Audi.
    Simple.
    This is the reason. My old 2.0-TFSI Quattro was exactly the same speed as a 140bhp tdci focus from 40-90mph. We did the test loads of times and no matter who was in front they were dead level. The diesel has shorter gearing so looses out massively from the start but once rolling it was a different matter, add that to the AWD losses and the extra weight of the A3 and what on paper should have been quicker was no quicker at all.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  20. #19
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    My previous 250bhp MK5 Gti (TFSI) would easily sit behind EVOs/Stis once on the move on a dry piece of private road.

    Sounds like bull**** pub bragging but its the truth, and those ricer saloon owners probably felt like you did. So it shows that FWD does hold back outright starightline performance.
    Which isnt everything of course......it wouldnt put me off.. Now go and get that remap and make proper use of 4wd and all that extra weight!

    cheers
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  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    Is swearing banned now?
    Do you want the long or short answer, choose from yeah or yes, lol

    Always was a rule tbh, but we all get carried away from time to time with bit of fun, not anymore.

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  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandle View Post
    This is the reason. My old 2.0-TFSI Quattro was exactly the same speed as a 140bhp tdci focus from 40-90mph. We did the test loads of times and no matter who was in front they were dead level. The diesel has shorter gearing so looses out massively from the start but once rolling it was a different matter, add that to the AWD losses and the extra weight of the A3 and what on paper should have been quicker was no quicker at all.
    But quicker 0-60, and 90+, Right?

    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    Little advice andy, edit the swearing before u get told of..
    ---------

    Quite right,,,,,golf golf golf...se, ya got me at it now !
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  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    But quicker 0-60, and 90+, Right?

    Paul
    Yeah 0-60 It left the focus for dead, never tried above 90 to find out but i guess at some point the A3 would have pulled from him.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

 

 

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