uuuundersteer S3

Aspen

Aspen

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Someone told me recently that the HALDEX is better left alone, and as such, ESP should be switched off when giving the old (well new) girl a bit of stick on the back roads.

I seem to be getting obscene amounts of understeer though? Might as well be a FWD.

Any tips on bringing the back end round when that happens, greatly recieved.

Also, what is ASR?
 
what are you tyre pressure? I noticed mine has more under-steer than I expected, my rears (dealer set) were to high. let some out and it feels much better
 
ASR = Anti Slip Regulation
ESP = Electronic Stability Programme.

ESP is a combination of them both.

:thumbsup:
 
:icon_thumright: thanks both

as for my tire pressures, not a scoobydoo.

Any idea on the best pressures to run?
 
The Haldex on mine is standard.....from new the car did understeer,due to the bias of the 4WD system on the S3,and I am sure that the horrid Bridgestone runflats don't help(RE050As).

What did make a difference is more power,and whilst I'm not trying to help you spend a load of cash,it does make a difference.

Worth mentioning that as with most 4WDs,when the back end does let go,it can be quite sudden,and may be interesting.
 
S3Alex said:
The Haldex on mine is standard.....from new the car did understeer,due to the bias of the 4WD system on the S3,and I am sure that the horrid Bridgestone runflats don't help(RE050As).

What did make a difference is more power,and whilst I'm not trying to help you spend a load of cash,it does make a difference.
Click to expand...

seriously I need no help in that department. lol Bluefin on the way.

Are they really run flats? thought it was only Zimmerframes that ran thoughs?
 
No problem,

The tire pressures are on a sticker on the inside of the petrol flap or so mine is anyway Aspen.

:thumbsup:
 
Aspen said:
seriously I need no help in that department. lol Bluefin on the way.

Are they really run flats? thought it was only Zimmerframes that ran thoughs?
Click to expand...

No worries.....maybe I'm demeaning these things more than I should but I was pretty sure they are the runflats.....if they arent,then there is even less excuse for them,as they have poor overall grip,awful wet grip and no progression at all.

Next tyres will be the Goodyear F1 asymmetrics.
 
I would be surprised if your were on RFTs. Even more surprised if someone fitted them after market. RFTs and S3 = loose fillings. :sadlike:
 
AuldReekie said:
I would be surprised if your were on RFTs. Even more surprised if someone fitted them after market. RFTs and S3 = loose fillings. :sadlike:
Click to expand...

Well it's an excuse or a reason for me to have another look at these awful things...I know they're RE050As.....they were fresh from Audi when I bought the car new,not after market.

Either way,they're gone soon as I've put up with them until they've worn down sufficiently that I don't feel they're still reasonably new.

Edit....my mistake,and thanks to Auld Reekie.....they are the RE050A and not the runflat version of the same.

So,as above,it makes them even worse,and it does fit with all of the reviews.

Apologies for taking this OT.
 
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I always thought that S3s were on CSCII or III from factory, but that seems not to be the case then :think:. Good skills on binning them then if they are not up to the job, an excuse for a track day if I have ever heard one.

Camskills are good for the Assymetrics at the moment mate £108.50. Speaking to Paul at Monty's and he was saying that his margin can only be a quid or two on them!
 
Thats weird, I got Potenza RE50 on mine... I have never had a worrying understeer moment....

Had plenty in the S4 before, but my S3 feels rock solid, maybe I'm not committed enough, but some round abouts I can bearly stay in the seat! ;-)

Maybe is just better to keep your foot in..... even in the wet, i've had no issue!
 
gavsteryoung said:
Thats weird, I got Potenza RE50 on mine... I have never had a worrying understeer moment....

Had plenty in the S4 before, but my S3 feels rock solid, maybe I'm not committed enough, but some round abouts I can bearly stay in the seat! ;-)

Maybe is just better to keep your foot in..... even in the wet, i've had no issue!
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I've driven a few fairly fast cars,and one very fast 4WD previously,and I have no problems keeping my foot in,but I do know tyres that lack grip and progression.

The problem with these is a general lack of grip and no feedback.
 
gavsteryoung said:
...Maybe is just better to keep your foot in..... even in the wet, i've had no issue!...
Click to expand...

This will sound totally pump no doubt, and given that I am no 4wd expert I am open to clarification please, but...

On Police Interceptors (the sad bit :whistle2:) the cops were getting some tuition on the Evo/Scooby and the instructor was telling them just what Gav said - in understeer situations you keep your boot in with 4wd. Obviously to mere mortals the natural reaction in F/Rwd cars is to back off so the tyres got traction again. Anybody back that up?

I have yet to encounter a massive understeer situation yet...but I would imagine doing that for the first time would evoke some serious derierre twitching.

Edit: @ Alex you posted while I was typing, so confirmd some of the above. Still interested to know why this is though. :thumbsup:
 
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How about some lift-off oversteer? That will get rid of your understeer lol.
 
The standard S3 will understeer at the limit, I dont think you'll get it to power oversteer at all ( I certainly couldnt on the track). Maybe a bit of lift off oversteer is possible, but you'd have to be going at a fair lick. Its generally a safe (read boring) car.

I reckon theres scope to tweak the geometry to make it a little more playful, but I havent got round to doing it, and others claim stiffer anti roll bars help , but I have no experience of them.

You can get the back end out from a standing start in the wet/other low grip scenarios, if you turn the steering wheel and dump the clutch.

edited to add - obviously ESP needs to be off for any of this, but I had read that in the face lift (but not on the non face lift) it will turn itself back on again automatically in certain scenarios.
 
arb's would help with that.
 
not sure if I've got the right nubers etc off the tire here, but my S3 has Michelin Pilot Exalto - VFA13V tires? then it says "PE2"

and round the tire it says - F3CR JKMX

Any idea's? are thay any good?
 
Aspen said:
not sure if I've got the right nubers etc off the tire here, but my S3 has Michelin Pilot Exalto - VFA13V tires? then it says "PE2"

and round the tire it says - F3CR JKMX

Any idea's? are thay any good?
Click to expand...

worked it out, they are PE2'S and they are sh!te on sports cars. ok for a family hatch back but not on anything above a focus ST.

strangely, the feedback / reviews accross the net seem to back up my findings, in the wet, the car is great, but as soon as it's dry, understeer all over the place.

I'm glad it's not just the car!

What would you guys recommend? I always tuck with Pzero's on my merc before, but at only 4 months old my S3 isn't due a change yet .
 
in practice with the s3 you will get understeer, even with loads of power and a modified haldex you are not going to get power oversteer.
in theory with 4wd cars keeping your foot on the throttle will eventually bring the back end round but will run out of road before this ever happens, fortunately the panic lift off increases front end weight and hence grip and leaves the car doing nothing but trying to turn so this usually works - if you have modified the car to seriously reduce understeer you are likely to get lift-off oversteer instead....

to reduce the understeer you need to give the front end more grip
-better rubber so you run out of nerve before front end grip
-bigger rear anti roll bar or both, but relatively more at the back eg front +50% stiffer rear 150 to 200% stiffer
-reduce the front tyre pressure slightly, try running front and rear pressures the same
-negative front camber, you would need to modify suspension but about -1.5 to -2.0deg negative camber will give you max front end grip
-modified haldex controller on sport setting will give you a 50:50 torque split under normal conditions so the front tyres are doing less work and they have more grip left to turn the car
 
A3simon said:
get a haldex controller for it and totally transform the handling
Click to expand...

Totally transform maybe...but not fix the inherent problem.
Adding more drive may give the impression of solving the understeer problem, but it doesn't fix it...it only helps mask it. After all, you can only send 50% of the power rearwards even with the Haldex locked.

A better solution is to find the front end grip people are lacking, to stop it understeering in the first place.

*EDIT:
dunk got in first!
 
To all of you who recommended the Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetrics.....a big thank you!

Had all four Bridgestones changed and it really has improved the car...it turns in better,grips and holds on better......just a better tyre all round.


Thanks chaps!
 
a good way to alter the handling balance is to alter the ride heights slightly. a 4wd car is set up to understeer as its easier to control and more predictable than oversteer now if you lowered the suspension height of the front by 5mm with an adjustable setup it would have a more neutral balance whereas if you lowered the back by 5mm instead you cause more understeer. its the same affect as lift off oversteer its all about weight transfer so good handling doesnt mean how stiff or low you can make you car as you lose feedback and the progressive feel. now someone feel free to shoot my theory to bits....lol
 
Lower centre of gravity, wider track, uprated ARB's and the Haldex controller have transformed my car..... understeer only if really provoked now... really happy with the improvement.
Running on GY Assy's ;)
 
S3Alex said:
To all of you who recommended the Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetrics.....a big thank you!

Had all four Bridgestones changed and it really has improved the car...it turns in better,grips and holds on better......just a better tyre all round.


Thanks chaps!
Click to expand...

Good news there Alex. Now mine are nearing 1k miles I can really lean on them and not found them wanting yet. JamieKip is getting some good wear rate from his which is encouraging as I only saw 9k(f) and 12k(r) on the CSC, but they are a good tyre.

Did you do Camskill in the end?
 
Second that, I paid £102 per corner from camskill, covered about 4k on these with no sign of wear, grip and feel are exceptional.

The tyre of choice plus some ARB's and what understeer ?
 
AuldReekie said:
Good news there Alex. Now mine are nearing 1k miles I can really lean on them and not found them wanting yet. JamieKip is getting some good wear rate from his which is encouraging as I only saw 9k(f) and 12k(r) on the CSC, but they are a good tyre.

Did you do Camskill in the end?
Click to expand...

Ended up going to my local tyre man who was very close on price and usually does us a good deal.

It's a much better tyre than the OEM Bridgestones,and I can't say that enough!...why on earth Audi fitted those things as standard beats me.
 
I fitted 235/40/18 Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric on the factory 7.5J Calitos rims and the slight extra width gives a bit more bite on turn in imo
 
S3Alex said:
Ended up going to my local tyre man who was very close on price and usually does us a good deal.

It's a much better tyre than the OEM Bridgestones,and I can't say that enough!...why on earth Audi fitted those things as standard beats me.
Click to expand...

Found out after I bought the fronts that Kwik-Fit do a price match deal. They said that at first that they wouldn't match internet (i.e. Camskill), but a bit of negotiation soon got round that. They also chucked in the Nitro for free too. Worth trying if you have one nearby.

I honestly thought that manufacturers designed the car on a specific tyre from factory, in this case the CSC II, but obviously that isn't the case. :confused:
 
A3 S-Lines are the same mate. Mine came with Pirellis and then I found out no one else had them.

The S3 has Bridgestones and I think they're pretty good. Better than the Pirellis were. Just nudging 20k too :icon_thumright:
 
Holy Thread Revival :)

Fed up with the standard S3 8P3's inherent understeering, I've reduced the front pressure from the recommended 42F 33R to 38F 33R - and I have to say that it now takes considerably more to get the front to break away. I'll just have to keep and eye on the outer edges to see if this has sped up their demise!
 
veeeight said:
Holy Thread Revival :)

Fed up with the standard S3 8P3's inherent understeering, I've reduced the front pressure from the recommended 42F 33R to 38F 33R - and I have to say that it now takes considerably more to get the front to break away. I'll just have to keep and eye on the outer edges to see if this has sped up their demise!
Click to expand...

Arise indeed dead thread!

It's a long way down the line now,but I've been through most of the methods of reducing understeer on the S3 now,and arrived at this....

1.ARBs and decent coilovers will reduce a lot of the tendency.

2.Haldex Race controller also reduces what's left,but there is still some left.

3.Superpro bush kit plus Superpro antilift kit and TCA's makes a good bit of difference as well.

The end result is a much more neutral car,but it does cost a lot to get there,and the ARB's make a really good,cost effective start.
 
Don't understand all the negativity towards Bridgestone 050a's.
Had them on several cars,including the S3,and found them to be pretty good all round,on road and Track.
Renault used them specifically to set the front wheel drive lap record with the Megane RS at the Nurburgring.......
I do Advanced Driver Training out here in the Colonies,and 90% of the problem with excessive understeer is the thing holding the wheel.
Operator error.
Cheers
Len
 
MACCAA said:
Don't understand all the negativity towards Bridgestone 050a's.Had them on several cars,including the S3,and found them to be pretty good all round,on road and Track.Renault used them specifically to set the front wheel drive lap record with the Megane RS at the Nurburgring.......I do Advanced Driver Training out here in the Colonies,and 90% of the problem with excessive understeer is the thing holding the wheel.Operator error.CheersLen
Click to expand...
I guess that's your opinion Len,and they may suit some people.I can say in my case,since the thing holding the wheel has been the same throughout,that it is indeed the tyres,as the F1s that followed were miles better,and so were the Michelins.
 
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S3Alex said:
Arise indeed dead thread!

It's a long way down the line now,but I've been through most of the methods of reducing understeer on the S3 now,and arrived at this....

1.ARBs and decent coilovers will reduce a lot of the tendency.

2.Haldex Race controller also reduces what's left,but there is still some left.

3.Superpro bush kit plus Superpro antilift kit and TCA's makes a good bit of difference as well.

The end result is a much more neutral car,but it does cost a lot to get there,and the ARB's make a really good,cost effective start.
Click to expand...

^^^THIS. I still have understeer but H&R coils, H&R front and rear and HPA genIV have produced a definite improvement. I will also thank ASN members who ran GY F1 assy's as I love them. I must admit the ride is better on 18's but 19's just look so sexy.
 
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