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Thread: Forge TWINtake

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    Forge TWINtake

    Almost went for Forge CAI and then I saw this. Forge Twintake with two closed filters sitting higher in the engine bay. The product is still in development but i hope it will be soon out for S3 too. Power gains are awsome too (leon cupra has 18bhp more). Think that CAI is going to wait a little bit.
    More on: http://www.forgemotorsport.com/conte...?inc=blog&i=26
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    looks good im gona go for this to any idea when its out ???

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    unfortunatly no info about that. hope it will be out soon.
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    Johnnyc has this on his golf.

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    If your using a big enough CAI for the requested air needed and pipework is large enough why should you gain anything by fitting two CAI`s? This sort of thing may be helpful on 500bhp + cars but other then that it`s just a gimmick .
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
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    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devonmikeyboy View Post
    If your using a big enough CAI for the requested air needed and pipework is large enough why should you gain anything by fitting two CAI`s? This sort of thing may be helpful on 500bhp + cars but other then that it`s just a gimmick .

    The limiting factor is that no matter how many air intakes you have,they are still feeding into the same pipe leading to the turbo.

    Once you approach or exceed the maximum flow capacity of that,or the turbo itself,it doesn't matter how many intakes you have attached to it.

    I had a 440+bhp Sierra which ran very happily on one pipe and filter of that size.

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    the bloke with the fastest mk5 golf in the uk must be wrong also Forge developing it are wrong then ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by voorhees View Post
    the bloke with the fastest mk5 golf in the uk must be wrong also Forge developing it are wrong then ?
    If the gains are in the order of 14-18bhp over the stock intake(as quoted on that blog link),then it's very similar to the quoted gains from the CAI.

    You still cannot get round the fact that both feed into the same inlet trunking.

    If improvements are being gained from 2 intake filters,then it follows that the intake filters are the biggest source of resistance,and using two would reduce that factor significantly.

    I'm not saying that either jonnyc or Forge are wrong,more that it's attending to intake resistance.

    Forge make some beautifully crafted pipes and fittings,some of which I have on my current car,but two intake filters?.....surely tidier to have one less obstructive one.

    FWIW,S3 Big Andy's 450bhp S3 seems to manage with a single Evoms CAI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    FWIW,S3 Big Andy's 450bhp S3 seems to manage with a single Evoms CAI.
    FWIW, Andy is getting a 'Twintake' on his car in the next couple of weeks Should be very interesting to see the difference after..
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post
    FWIW, Andy is getting a 'Twintake' on his car in the next couple of weeks Should be very interesting to see the difference after..

    Hi jonny...thanks for the news there.

    I'd be very interested to see the results.

    It does point to the filter as the point of maximum resistance(as you'd expect).

    Would also be interesting to compare the CAI's cone filter with some alternatives from eg Pipercross or K&N to see how they perform in terms of flow and resistance.

    To be fair to all of these products,any gains I get from my car now are going to be relatively small,given that the turbo itself is only good for about 380bhp in terms of gas flow,and Andy has done the best thing to increase gas flow already.....I might perhaps think of that if I keep the car for a few more years,but we already have enough ways for me to lose my licence down here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devonmikeyboy View Post
    If your using a big enough CAI for the requested air needed and pipework is large enough why should you gain anything by fitting two CAI`s? This sort of thing may be helpful on 500bhp + cars but other then that it`s just a gimmick .
    Err no actualy the reson behind the twintake is cold air flow as the air filters do not suck any air from the engine bay, cold air is more dense with oxygen which can raise bhp!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post
    FWIW, Andy is getting a 'Twintake' on his car in the next couple of weeks Should be very interesting to see the difference after..

    should be!

    My car is down on power because of the evoms its just too restrictive in the cone filter and it still gets some air from the engine bay which is a tad hot!!
    Phantom Black, Revo, 450+ BHP , Milltek Evom's, Autotech fuel pump, RS4 brakes 18" Pro Race 1.2 team Dynamics, H&R ARB's, Bilstein PSS10's, Forge Twintercooler, GT3071R, RS4 Injectors, Helix racing clutch, Custom downpipe de-catted straight pipe to back box, 12.6second 1/4 mile! 4.03 sec's 0-60 This isnt just any car, this, THIS WAS the Stealth Beast!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Big Andy View Post
    Err no actualy the reson behind the twintake is cold air flow as the air filters do not suck any air from the engine bay, cold air is more dense with oxygen which can raise bhp!
    If you have a CAI ( Cold Air Intake ) set up properly you don`t suck in any air from the engine bay anyway . Two intake sucking in cold air does not give you more power if the inlet pipework doesn`t flow the air supplied by both CAI`s. With both CAI`s joining one pipe it must cause turbulence and resistance in the air inlet track.
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devonmikeyboy View Post
    If you have a CAI ( Cold Air Intake ) set up properly you don`t suck in any air from the engine bay anyway . Two intake sucking in cold air does not give you more power if the inlet pipework doesn`t flow the air supplied by both CAI`s. With both CAI`s joining one pipe it must cause turbulence and resistance in the air inlet track.
    it flows the air supplied by both CAI's because the cold air is more compressed and has a smaller volume than the hot air so engine sucks more of it, and that means more oxygen for the explosions in the cylinders.
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    No matter how good you think an open filter in the engine bay is for getting cold air, the turbo will suck the air from around it therefore it will get some air from the bay if not sealed, DMB, this has been proved by vag-com.

    It may show up less on std set ups but on mine it really shows!!

    If I can get my intake temps down 2/3 degrees I would be happy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    it flows the air supplied by both CAI's because the cold air is more compressed and has a smaller volume than the hot air so engine sucks more of it, and that means more oxygen for the explosions in the cylinders.
    The air comming through the CAI`s are at ambiant temps and haven`t gone through a charge or intercoller yet so what your saying is correct about cold air being more dence but two CAI`s don`t make the air more dence then one. The air is made more dence in a charge/intercooler not in an airfilter.
    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Big Andy View Post
    No matter how good you think an open filter in the engine bay is for getting cold air, the turbo will suck the air from around it therefore it will get some air from the bay if not sealed, DMB, this has been proved by vag-com.

    It may show up less on std set ups but on mine it really shows!!

    If I can get my intake temps down 2/3 degrees I would be happy!
    Who`s talking about open air filters? I thought this conservation was about the fact Forge have two CAI`s used instead of one for no reason.
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

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    Thats just the point! there is a reason....Space! in order to get cold air flow AND the right size filter you need to use up a lot of the space around the battery box, something Evoms struggle with, even ITG's new set up uses up a huge area just to get the right sized filter in place which means it has more chance of sucking warm air, Forge's new twin take gives you cold air flow whilst not compromising on the space needed, most company's will tell you sealed air filters offer better performance!

    If I could I would have one major **** off big sealed filter but I cant fit it in, Forges twin is the way forward especially on the 2.0 tfsi!
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    Not wanting to start an argument with you over this flawed idea but if space is the issue just stick the frigging battery in the boot !
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

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    FFS thats the whole point with this kit you dont need too!!!
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    Completely off topic.

    Andy i want first dibs on your car when you sell lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Big Andy View Post
    FFS thats the whole point with this kit you dont need too!!!
    Well if you want to bodge the job carry on and have stupid looking and technically flawed twin CAI intake system then, i would rather do the job properly and just stick the battery in the boot.
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

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    Haha, If it means so much to you why dont you call up Forge and tell them that there all idiots and you should be head of the design team..??

    Didnt think so..
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    I see Forge have taken 2 BMC CDA'a & stuck them in the bay, lol, I can hear screams of copyright

    If you have real proof gains of the kit fitted then there's no dispute tbh over if its actually made a difference, I've known of mods that have said yeah can do this that & everything else & when fitted did absolutely feck all, but Forge are usually reliable tbh & cant see them making this part if it has no benefits to anyone cause they know it would be tested by the likes of us & word spreads like swine flu of crap mods in the modding world.

    Doesnt look to neat but hey who watches under the bonnet when driving, lol.

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    sorry to change the subject slightly. s3bigandy, talking about heat in engine bay, have you tried exhaust tape

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    Woohah, I love these threads! The fine line where conjecture and opinion blur the lines of proof and fact.

    There are always more than one way to skin a cat, and in defense of Forge I'd tend to say they have a reputation to maintain in the world of modding.

    Ultimately 14bhp gain is 14bhp in any currency. From an air filter / intake replacement solution that is not bad going. However when you are running cars with upward of 300bhp (and in some cases upward of 450bhp Andy), 14bhp is less than 5% improvement overall.

    However, when you are searching for margins of improvement every little helps, and I'd hope that in the research process Forge will have found a reason to justify the use of a second intake feed (either due to air flow requirements or due to benefits relating to the air flow characteristics).

    Question: If you put a fan in the house in the summer it cools the air. Therefore air speed / turbulence creates a cooling effect on the air (or so it seems). Is there a chance that by increasing air turbulence within the system it will have the same effect?

    Someone asked above about taping up the exhaust with insulation materials. A couple of years ago I was told I couldn't do this because the turbo couldn't cope with the lack of heat dissipation in that area. Be interested to hear if anyone thinks otherwise / has heard contrasting info.
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    lets be done with it & connect some copper pipes to the aircon & wrap them round the intake pipe LOL.

    Seriously though, the proof is in the rolling road before & after. I'm sceptical too
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    You have to be careful wrapping exhausts and turbos they can overheat and crack..
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Big Andy View Post
    Err no actualy the reson behind the twintake is cold air flow as the air filters do not suck any air from the engine bay, cold air is more dense with oxygen which can raise bhp!
    Im with that one, as soon as i fitted my evoms kit i thaught WTF not getting much cold air to it is it ? yeah its got a nice little badly bodged air funnel/heat guard but i dont think its doing what it should entirely

    the twintake as far as i can see WILL take more cold air in as its being fed from two different places i cant see why it would take 'more' air in but the coldr the air the better the performance, cant people see this ??

    dont get me wrong im not gonna buy one less i get proven gains im just gonna lead more cold air to my evoms and pad out the crappy made funnel with resistant foam like andy suggested
    maybe even remove fogs and see if i can get as much cold air in as poss we'l see if thats possible when i get home

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    here you go....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khufu View Post
    here you go....

    where can i get one of those ?lol cunny funt

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    im getting mine like this lol


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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    im getting mine like this lol

    Looking at that made tears come to my eyes!!! Lol but did make me laugh
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post
    Haha, If it means so much to you why dont you call up Forge and tell them that there all idiots and you should be head of the design team..??

    Didnt think so..
    If you'd seen the size of Pete @ Forge you wouldn't say that
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    im getting mine like this lol

    LOL i'm getting that green tint
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    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    If you'd seen the size of Pete @ Forge you wouldn't say that
    I suggest that you read the thread and see in what context I wrote that.. Seems like you missed the point I was making..

    I have the Forge Twintake on my car, the only one in the UK currently and the first prototype to be produced. Its an amazing piece of kit.. It was fitted to my car at GTI International.. Again no one in a MK5 GTI got anywhere near me on the sprint, im running Revo mapping, Forge cooler, Forge PCV and catch can, and Forge Twintake.. Proof that it works?

    I was just trying to make the point that *****ing about a product on a forum is one thing.. etc etc..

    For all of those who think they really understand these things, I suggest you have another think.. The twintake works, fact.. I know, its on my car and there was a noticeable increase in power and torque throughout the whole rev range..

    Looks like nothing has changed over here anyways..
    Last edited by jonnyc; 6th July 2009 at 00:46.
    MK5 ED30.. Fastest MK5 / 2.0T FSI in the UK - Fastest DSG MK5 in the world!

    12.601 @ 115.85 MPH

  38. #37
    10blazin's Avatar
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    jonny c when we these be comng out do you know????

  39. #38
    warren_S5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post

    I was just trying to make the point that *****ing about a product on a forum is one thing.. etc etc..

    Looks like nothing has changed over here anyways..
    The world is full of armchair critics armed with an internet, a keyboard and an opinion. You'll never change that.

    I'm just grateful that companies like Forge keep pushing the boundaries. Without this forward thinking mentality we'd still be dragging our knuckles, wearing loin clothes and tearing flesh off of carcasses every day!

    They wouldn't risk their reputation by releasing something expensive that had no inherent value.

    With respect to the comments on getting air in, you could replay that with respect to getting air out. People spend good money for exhaust pipes that have larger gauge piping than the exhaust ports. Does that mean that this is also a waste of spend?
    Audi S5 3.0V6T Coupe Black Edition

  40. #39
    jonnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    jonny c when we these be comng out do you know????
    Forge will be announcing pricing and dates very shortly, I would suggest to keep checking the website as the info will be up there first!
    MK5 ED30.. Fastest MK5 / 2.0T FSI in the UK - Fastest DSG MK5 in the world!

    12.601 @ 115.85 MPH

  41. #40
    devonmikeyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post
    ..

    I have the Forge Twintake on my car, the only one in the UK currently and the first prototype to be produced. Its an amazing piece of kit.. It was fitted to my car at GTI International.. Again no one in a MK5 GTI got anywhere near me on the sprint, im running Revo mapping, Forge cooler, Forge PCV and catch can, and Forge Twintake.. Proof that it works?

    I was just trying to make the point that *****ing about a product on a forum is one thing.. etc etc..

    For all of those who think they really understand these things, I suggest you have another think.. The twintake works, fact.. I know, its on my car and there was a noticeable increase in power and torque throughout the whole rev range..

    Looks like nothing has changed over here anyways..
    I wasn`t *****ing i was stating why i think it wouldn`t work. I posted my reasons which nobody has given a good reply to why i might be wrong in thinking this. What you posted in your first paragraph proves NOTHING. If those are all the mods you have and you believe by just fitting two CAI`s your car is suddenly much faster you must be off your head. I don`t come on forums to ***** or start petty arguments with people i don`t know. Show me facts and unbiased dyno charts that i am wrong an i will admit it untill then i will laugh at this idea like most other tuning minded people will/do. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=251576
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

 

 
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