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  1. #1
    imported_tobycruse
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    Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    OK, I'm new to this so here goes! I've got and Audi A3 2.0 FSI and I was wandering what options i have to increase the performance of the car. Iv heard about re mapping the ECU and putting a different exhaust on but what else can i do? Can anyone help?

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  3. #2
    Grant's Avatar
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Remapping a non-turboed or normally aspirated (NA) engine won't give you that much extra power, neither will an aftermarket exhaust system.

    A remap will probably give you an extra 10-12bhp.

  4. #3
    imported_tobycruse
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Oki Doki, so what can I do to make the car go faster? Would i have to buy a turbo and put it in to get the most increase in power?

  5. #4
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Imola S3 said:
    A remap will probably give you an extra 10-12bhp.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    More like 5-6 in reality....despite what some dyno's show.

  6. #5
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    T. Cruse said:
    Oki Doki, so what can I do to make the car go faster? Would i have to buy a turbo and put it in to get the most increase in power?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    At the risk of this sounding a bit short:
    Buy a faster car.

    I can't believe you bought a new 2.0 FSI economy-beast and now even think about fitting a turbo?

    Just buy a turbo's car to start with...or get the V6.

    Modern cars are so well optimised that you just don't get gains by bolting on crap aftermarket accesories on NA cars, like you did back in the 80s and 90s.
    You'll be lucky to see 10BHP extra by changing the air filter, cat, exhaust, and re-working the head.
    Supposing someone ever actually produces cams for it...you'll be lucky to be able to get them to pass the emissions test...so they're useless.

    Sorry...but you're pretty much stuck.


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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    For the price of the FSi you could have got a late low mileage S3 with plenty of change for a load of real modifications. Why would anyone buy that car new if they wanted a fast car, why would anyone buy a new car full stop if they are into performance?
    I'm guessing/hoping it's a company car....

  8. #7
    imported_tobycruse
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    It is...

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Aaaah, I apologise, wasn't the Seat Cupra R on the list?

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Wait a minute. You're gonna put a turbo on a company car? Nice one!

  11. #10
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    why would anyone buy a new car full stop if they are into performance?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Are you suggesting that you can't buy a proper performance car new?

    That's the way that statememt reads...in which case you are sadly mistaken. some of the finest drivers cars / performance cars of all time are around now, available new.

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    1 question for u t.cruse how does a student manage to get a company car?

    cheers tony

  13. #12
    imported_tobycruse
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    Wait a minute. You're gonna put a turbo on a company car? Nice one!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yea! But gotta save for a good one, and plp are saying that because the car relys so much on the ECU and management system it wouldnt really make mutch difference?!? Do you think this is true?

  14. #13
    imported_tobycruse
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Student get a company car through a very wealthy company owning grandma that happenes to want me to survive if i crash! So it being slow and solid is a good thing i supose!

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    its alrite for some!wish i had a car like that when i was 18! enjoy the car im sure you will quality in the audis is pretty damn good.

    cheers tony

  16. #15
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    T. Cruse said:

    Yea! But gotta save for a good one, and plp are saying that because the car relys so much on the ECU and management system it wouldnt really make mutch difference?!? Do you think this is true?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think plp haven't got a clue what they are talking about.

    Of course a turbo will add performance...but your managememt system is incapable of running a turbo..
    I'm not going to waste my time explaining how it can be done and with what parts...let's just say, if you want better performance, sell it and but a V6.

  17. #16
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    T. Cruse said:
    OK, I'm new to this so here goes! I've got and Audi A3 2.0 FSI and I was wandering what options i have to increase the performance of the car. Iv heard about re mapping the ECU and putting a different exhaust on but what else can i do? Can anyone help?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You would have to spend literally thousands of pounds to get a perceptable and useful increase in power on such a car. It is a complete waste of time thinking about it, a total non starter. I guess what you might think about is modifying the suspension so it will at least corner more quickly, but then again, why bother....

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    Are you suggesting that you can't buy a proper performance car new?

    That's the way that statememt reads...in which case you are sadly mistaken. some of the finest drivers cars / performance cars of all time are around now, available new.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm just saying you can get the same performance/fun from the same car just 1 or 2 years old and save at least 30%. Buying a modern car secondhand is hardly a risk these days, all cars are pretty reliable, I just don't see the value in losing 17.5% by driving your brand new baby off the forecourt, unless you're into the very outdated "look at me I've got the latest model" trap. Yes look at you, you've paid over the odds for the latest model that's slower than the old model and will probably suffer from no end of teething problems. Well done!
    I can't really think of any brand new car (not available secondhand) that would outperform an older model (tweaked or untweaked). Convince me...

  19. #18
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Buy a CTR! tunning potential is ammazing on those things. The CTR even has various settings for NOS / Supercharger etc aleady programmed in the ECU, u just need a hondata remap and laptop to access them and tweak them to how u want it set up. U can adjust cam angles fueling to individual cylinders etc etc etc etc

    I don't think the 2.0 FSi has anything like that :-/

    My advise, sell it and get something else as it's not an easy car to tune.

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Sound logical advice for all you car buyers out there.
    I think I get the picture now.
    So out of interest what new car would replace your heavily modified S3? given the current Audi/VW lineup I'm guessing you'd have to defect?
    My thinking on my next car would logically be new S4, but for the same money I can get a secondhand RS4.
    No prizes for guessing where my penny pinching money will be spent

  21. #20
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Andy

    Spending money intelligently on cars hmmmm! Jeremy Clarkson used to have a theory that everyone would buy a middle range Golf if they just applied logic to their car purchasing decisions.

    People can spend their money as they wish, you spend money on upgrading car hifi, some people would argue that is a waste (not me BTW).

    T Cruse, looks like Granny has some smarts to go with the money, she bought you a decent good looking car with reasonable performance and a good safety rating. Maybe you should try to survive University before trying to kill yourself exploring the limit of your as yet under developed driving skills.

    BTW bet you now wish you had swallowed your pride and gone for the diesel. You could have had 180BHP and 310 lb/ft of torque quite easily.






  22. #21
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    Sound logical advice for all you car buyers out there.
    I think I get the picture now.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's a perfectly rational way of looking at things...
    Just because it doesn't happen to fit in with your thoughts, you don't seem to accept it.

    There are many people out there who look upon thier car as a 'release' and should you find yourself in that position, free from constricting factors such as daily running costs (don't have to use the car to go to work) why shouldn't someone buy with their heart instead of turning the whole process into a business decision?
    I don't believe for one minute buyers of cars such as the quick special Elises / VX220s of this world, buy them because they are cheap to buy, cheap to run and hold their value well...they treat the car as a toy...and buy accordingly.

    Sometimes...with the way we all live our lives currently, with house prices what they are, taxes, bills etc all what they are, bringing up children etc...sometimes, it's nice to have one decision which you make purely by following your heart - not your head.

    So, it loses money. So what?
    Sometimes things rank higher than keeping hold of money...

    I'll continue to spend stupid sums of money 'p*ssing it away' on playing with cars...and equally 'stupid' sums of money buying new cars and loosing it on depretiation, because regardless of how much our Government and all the tree-hugging loonies out there try...thus far they can't tax or legislate against the smile I get on my face each time I take one of my cars out for a play.

    And that feeling is worth more than money.


    [ QUOTE ]

    So out of interest what new car would replace your heavily modified S3? given the current Audi/VW lineup I'm guessing you'd have to defect?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Looks like it...
    There's nothing in the current line up that 'tickles my fancy' at the moment...an S4 would be nice, but I don't want a car that size - which is a shame because to my eyes it's the prettiest car in the current range...the later offerings are both bland and boring in equal measure.

    I don't know what I'll settle on...depends what I see that I like..


    [ QUOTE ]

    My thinking on my next car would logically be new S4, but for the same money I can get a secondhand RS4.
    No prizes for guessing where my penny pinching money will be spent

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, since it's not possible to buy a new RS4, you would be forced into a used example, wouldn't you?
    Lovely car the RS4...I hope you find a good one and enjoy it.


    I fully understand your way of thinking...and to be honest, it's a much more sensible (or dare I say conformist) way of behaving...but it doesn't work for everyone. It doesn't work for me...
    My home life doesn't suffer...my family don't suffer...and I'm happy - is there anything wrong with that?

  23. #22
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    garethj said:
    Spending money intelligently on cars hmmmm! Jeremy Clarkson used to have a theory that everyone would buy a middle range Golf if they just applied logic to their car purchasing decisions.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Good point Gareth..
    Without people who buy new cars without their primary concern being residual value, there would be no used RS4s for Andy to buy (and save his 30%)! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Ess

    Quote: "they can't tax or legislate against the smile I get on my face each time I take one of my cars out for a play".

    I thought thats what the speed cameras are for.

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Gareth, what you rather have brand new A4 3.0 or a 2 year old fully loaded RS4? I'm not dictating how people should spend their hard earned, I just don't understand the "new car thing". The new car isn't new for very long, and once you've bought your first new car you realise that.
    Maybe I've been put off with 15 years of company cars, frustrated at the limited choice and not really getting what I wanted.
    As you know spending money on car hifi gives you an immediate and obvious benefit, I just don't see the same benefit buying a new car. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to convert anyone, you all keep on paying that premium so that I can enjoy the money you've spent!

  26. #25
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    alxs3 said:
    personally i'd stick with what you've got until your more experienced. it's ok having the money to pay for fast cars and insurance but you can't buy experience and no amount of money could help if you ended up in a serious crash.

    we've all been there so i'd just be patient and revel in the fact that your an 18 year old student with a damn fine car.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Kind of depends... I've never had slow cars. Learnt to drive on a 106 Rallye and just got quicker from then on. The hazard is jumping from something with NO power to something with big power! Just know your limits and dont try to exceed them, as you will do yourself and maybe someone else some damage! at 18 your only just setting out, and you never stop learning, mainly from some of the STUPID things you see complete tw*ts doing on the road!

    Rich

  27. #26
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    Gareth, what you rather have brand new A4 3.0 or a 2 year old fully loaded RS4?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Now then Andy...
    This is not the argument you used a few posts ago...
    Pedantic perhaps...but your argument was for an RS4 vs New S4 - quite a different car to a 3.0 A4!



    [ QUOTE ]

    I'm not dictating how people should spend their hard earned, I just don't understand the "new car thing". The new car isn't new for very long, and once you've bought your first new car you realise that.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not sure it's anything to do with the car being 'new' - it's certainly not for me.
    It's all about finding a used car that fits your ideal...perfect condition (NO marks at all) with your exact chosen spec and colour...and the knowledge that it's not been abused.

    The registration mark has nothing to do with it...to the point that I'll have a non age related plate on my cars to hide the fact that they are new.
    Maybe to some people it's all about the kudos of the 'new reg'...but not all of us.

    It's all about getting the 'perfect' car, just the way you want it, with no compromises. This, is something I'm prepared to pay a premium for.



    [ QUOTE ]

    Maybe I've been put off with 15 years of company cars, frustrated at the limited choice and not really getting what I wanted.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe so...
    I've never had a company car, nor had to pick a car off someone elses pre defined list...so in my mind I've always been able to buy whatever car I've wanted with the money I have available at that time.

    I can therefore understand the frustration of someone who is limited by company car rules / lists.


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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    "Now then Andy...
    This is not the argument you used a few posts ago...
    Pedantic perhaps...but your argument was for an RS4 vs New S4 - quite a different car to a 3.0 A4!"
    Well sorry to return the pedanticism (?), but you can get a good choice of RS4 now for 32K (2001, 40k miles), once you've trawled through all the cheap green ones (don't get me started on stupid colours, I can feel Noggy Blue Ess Three limbering up his thumbs already), and a semi configured S4 is 40k+, so the 3.0 Quattro is a better pound for pound comparison in the 32k bracket. Anyone with half a brain can follow this logic, which is why I didn't think it needed explaining.
    I didn't mention Registration plates, but nice of you to drop in the fact that you have a custom plate.

    One reason I opted out of the company car scheme was the car choice, I could get an S3 but I would have to contribute 70 per month. And with the tax changes I'd have been looking at the car costing me 400 per month. My A4 is now earning me 400 per month as it is paid for and I get a 6k car allowance. I don't know, I just look at an 800 per month differential and logic just has to stick its oar in.
    Would driving an S3/S4 over my A4 be worth 800 a month? That's paying off my mortgage 15 years early, and taking my family on 3 foreign holidays a year instead of 1.
    Ummm tricky one that......

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Andy let the bee out of the bonnet it is the kindest thing to do.

    Reasons to buy a new car:

    1. The model is not available second hand (i.e. RS4 when it first came out)

    2. The new model has improvements which are not available second hand (i.e new A3 2.0TDI)

    3. You want a precise spec,colour etc.

    4. Price difference between new and second hand is minimal (see any Audi dealers forecourt).

    5. If you lease cars (rather than buy) most deals are for new cars.

    6. Three years warranty

    7. etc

    The RS4 vs S4 arguement is far too narrow to justify your point about secondhand vs new.

    I have shared your frustration with company car lists, I once drove hire cars for two years to avoid having to settle for a very dull car from the company list.

    As Ess has said above there is no right or wrong in this.

  30. #29
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    I kinda agree with Andy here. If i had a set price to spend on a car, i would rather buy something 1-2 years old, been already run in, and teething problems already sorted, and still be covered by the manufacturers warranty. This way you can afford to get a better car than if you were buying something the same price new, and be content with it for longer. When i nought my A3 i could have bought a 1.8 new, but i would have been bored to tears with it in all of about 5 minutes. If you can afford to buy the car you want new, then thats great, but if not, id sooner get a second hand car in what i want than a new one in what i dont want! And the whole colour thing, i just wait til i find what i want...although im not too fussy really (personal thing i guess), and i will look at the optional extras that are on the car and make my decision. Again im not too fussy when it comes to it. My A3 when i bought it had everything i needed. Cant think of any options i would have had if i had of bought it new.

    Rich

  31. #30
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    I think i'd like to join this discussion and kind of agree with AndyMac. I have recently purchased my car and was looking at a range of options. I am by no means in the league of brand new S4's, but I think my position says a lot about the argument. I had budgeted spending 8k max on a car and could have gone down the route that a friend of mine has, by purchasing a brand new Vauxhall Corsa 1.2SXI. But who wants to do that?!! Instead, by looking at cars that are a few years old I was able to pick up what I would consider as a proper car, a 1999 facelift A4 1.8T Sport with full leather, 58k miles, FaSH in near immaculate condition. Alright, its not brand new, but for the driving experience, can you find a better new car for 8 grand? I think this shows how some of us that live in the real world can get more car for our buck by looking at used cars.

    Cheers

    Andy

  32. #31
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    I don't want to p*ss on his fireworks cause he's a mate and happy with his new car, but.....
    Someone convince me he made the right choice

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe he didn't like the old A3 otherwise, like for example I didn't. Also if he does 30k miles per year, the fuel cost with FSI engine will be lot lower (then again, with those miles, why didn't he buy a diesel?).

    Anyway, I personally never considered A3 1,8T and my FSI to compete, it was FSI all the way. The looks, the handling, the looks and so on. And since I personally am going to keep the car for a long time, it's nice to know it's mine, it's new model, and it's value isn't going down as fast as the old one's (as I'm probably going to sell this one before they announce a new one).

    Had there been used-new-A3s available at that time, I'd prolly chosen one. But there wasn't. And this one was just so much better than BMW Compact (which was my other option).

    - Yak

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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Yak said:
    the handling,

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Bad arguement! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] old a3 handles better! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif[/img]

  34. #33
    imported_mustwin1
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    I'm with the second hand brigade without a doubt, with the money I recently splashed on an A3TQS I might have been able to afford a New Diawoo-ho, it was a no brainer. On the other hand, if money wasn't an issue (unfortunately I think it always will be [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]) then I would buy new. Those of us who haven't got the money, need to make it go further.....

  35. #34
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    I am confused as to why the perceived value of buying new would outweigh the additional cost or the potential model upgrade you'd get by going used.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I just don't think you get it...
    This discussion started over buying car 'A' new versus the EXACT same model of car used...but possibly not in the exact colour / spec you want.

    Assuming you can afford it, why does it appear to be such a shock that there are people who will buy the new car, in order to have 'their' spec and colour?

    Your argument regarding buying car 'A' new (a lower model) versus buying car 'B' used (a higher or more desirable model) was never in debate...that's a no brainer....if that's what you want.

    But, the fact remains that there are perceived advantages to buying new if you are paertuicular about what you want. Surely everyone with a hloe in their a*se can see that?
    Right or wrong...the fact still remains.


    [ QUOTE ]

    I can see buying new makes sense when you don't really have an interest in cars/performance. You just want a reliable car with full cover and the colour and armrest are more important to you than getting the next model up.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    And what if the choice was a performance car with several options at 18 months old versus the same car new, in your preferred colour with your preferred options - the same 'performance' car?

    Assuming you are not bound by company car rules and have not got the associated tax liability...why is is so hard to understand that there are people who will choose the 'new' option. Not because it's new...but because thay can have it EXACTLY the way they want it...with all thier options, in their colour and in pristine condition.

    [ QUOTE ]

    The Daewoo/Skoda situation. This makes sense. I can see the RS4 point (1.), huge value here, what alternative to an RS4 was there when they first came out. You could keep it for a year and sell it for what you bought it for.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    ...another 'business' type decision.
    What if you really wanted an RS4 new...and you had the cash sat there...and you intended to keep it for many years (say 5 or 6). Would it not seem reasonable to buy it new?
    To me, it would.

    I wouldn't consider the depreciation...if that's what I wanted as my car, and I could afford it...I'd buy it. New.


  36. #35
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    No offence to you guys Ess Three and AndyMac, but this 18 year old chap T.cruze just wanted to know how to make his new A3 quicker with his 1st or 2nd ever post... hope you havn't scared him away from this site, as he seems a little quiet. lol. Continue...

  37. #36
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Very true...

    My apologies...
    I guess myself and Andy have gone off on a tangent. But sometimes the point you end up - and the journey - was more interesting and informative than where you started.

    No offence meant...but I have learned a great deal about what makes other people tick following the tangent, it's sometimes good to hear other peoples perspectives on decisions we all take for granted - no matter if you happen to share those views or not.

  38. #37
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    "But the original argument was around someone choosing to buy a used car when they could choose to buy the EXACT same car new?"
    How many contradictions can you get into a single post?
    The original argument was exactly NOT that, it was about an 18 year old buying a new FSi and wanting to get more power out of it. Buying a used FSi would not have achieved this, I and everyone else was pointing out he'd bought the wrong car, new or used. We were pointing out that for FSi money he could have got a 2 year old S3 with spare cash for modding. Make your mind up.

    "Nice of you to tell us all how well you're doing..."
    I don't think getting a car allowance could be construed as "doing well" or bragging about my income. I was simply illustrating the choices I had, and what these equate to in monetary terms. Then applying that differential to a real life situation, i.e. what I can do with that money if I forfeit the new S4.

    It's called illustrating a point.

    I'm not having a pop at you Ess Three, honestly, but I think you'd agree that your situation is not typical, and originally we were talking about general behaviour of the car buying public. "why would anyone buy a new car?"
    You seem to have lost sight (again) of the point of this post. New FSi or 2 year old S3?, New A4 Q or 3 year old RS4? the list goes on. I can't put it any simpler.
    Not penny pinching, just getting more car for the same money

  39. #38
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Lively banter, love it.
    I think we came to the conclusion a long time ago that there's nothing we can do for T.Cruse, so I doubt he's still waiting for an answer.


  40. #39
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:
    It's called illustrating a point.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    ...and very eloquently you have illustrated it too!
    For this I thank you...although whether young Mr Cruse would thank you or I for hijacking his thread, is yet to be seen.


    [ QUOTE ]

    I'm not having a pop at you Ess Three, honestly, but I think you'd agree that your situation is not typical, and originally we were talking about general behaviour of the car buying public. "why would anyone buy a new car?"


    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's a fair comment...
    I agree that my situation is not typical...but there has to be a reasonable percentage of people out there who share a similar view, or all the decent 2-3 year old cars wouldn't be on the market, would they?

    I'm not trying to have a pop either...but we have established that the majority of people who have read this thread would opt for a good used car and gain a better model for their budget. I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same.
    But, in order to hear all sides of all stories it's important that someone play 'Devils Advocate' and nail their colours firmly to the mast of 'new buyer'.

    I'm not so set in my ways that I will only approach a situation one way...and I'm not solely into buying new cars. I also fully understand the mindset of buying a used car of a better model vs a new car of a lesser model - I did the same with my Golf GTI!
    But, someone has to play the 'bad man' in order to fully understand other peoples decision making processes.
    Sorry if this offends anyone...I certainly don't take things personally...I hope nobody else does.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Lively banter, love it.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Absolutely!
    And [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif[/img] to those who've participated...good craic.


    [ QUOTE ]

    I think we came to the conclusion a long time ago that there's nothing we can do for T.Cruse, so I doubt he's still waiting for an answer.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Heh-heh. Amen to that.



  41. #40
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    Re: Taking and A3 and making it go faster!!!!!

    Keep up thee good work guys [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif[/img]

 

 
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