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  1. #1
    tobycruse's Avatar
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    Cool Pro Alloy Intercooler for S3

    I have just dropped my car off at AmD Essex for them to take it to Pro Alloy Ltd in Suffolk.

    There it is being used as a development car for the research and construction of a bespoke larger inter-cooler for the S3.

    You can see their work here: http://www.proalloy.co.uk/

    The car should be there for a week or two, only just got it back from Audi!

    Spoke to the guy in charge Wayne, very helpful and knowledgeable.

    Will keep the development posted here, pictures and info!

    I think after this I can finally stop for a bit!
    Who said speed kills!?!?....But dangerous driving on the other hand....
    Ibis White S3 Sportback - ?bhp - ?lb/ft (Being Fixed)
    Mods: LED's Throughout, Milltek TBE, Revo S2+, Forge CAI (Gold), K&W V3's 25mm, H&R ARB's, Powerflex Bushes, Autotech HPFP, Sachs Clutch, Forge DV, Jonny's PCV Mod, Defi Boost Gauge, Pro Alloy Intercooler, 18" OZ Alleggerita's, NGK Iridium Spark Plugs, VI Performance Monitor, Road Angel Pro Connected
    Full OEM Springs and Shocks for sale from 2008 S3 CLICK ME

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  3. #2
    S3 Big Andy's Avatar
    Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    Will be interesting me thinks!!
    Phantom Black, Revo, 450+ BHP , Milltek Evom's, Autotech fuel pump, RS4 brakes 18" Pro Race 1.2 team Dynamics, H&R ARB's, Bilstein PSS10's, Forge Twintercooler, GT3071R, RS4 Injectors, Helix racing clutch, Custom downpipe de-catted straight pipe to back box, 12.6second 1/4 mile! 4.03 sec's 0-60 This isnt just any car, this, THIS WAS the Stealth Beast!!
    Gone but not forgotten
    VCDS GONE TOO
    http://www.andyoram.co.uk





  4. #3
    Staz's Avatar
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    You lucky guy!! What gains are they expecting?
    8P2 S3

    For advice on Air Con problems please read my FAQs.
    To find ASN members with VCDS check out the MAP.

  5. #4
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    There not too far from me if they are in need of another test mule for a KS03 variant
    2009- Phantom Black A3 S Line Black Edt 2.0T
    2008 - 2009 Emocian red Seat Ibiza FR TDi running p-torque stage 1 (STOLEN)
    2005 - 2008 Black Magic 1.4 Seat Ibiza Sport (PX ed)

  6. #5
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Very nice....not unlike Pace Products in terms of range and ability.

    It should be able to keep your inlet temperatures down for longer at higher boost levels.....my last fast car was a GpN Escort Cosworth with an intercooler about the size of some of these products,and also with water injection triggered by the inlet temperature rising above a set level,and to be honest,in road settings with a huge intercooler,even running 2.5bar boost,the injection system virtually never came on.

    It would be great to hear how you get on.

  7. #6
    tobycruse's Avatar
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    I was talking to Wayne, apparently the ideal intake temp on the inlet manifold is 40c and lower. He is going to see the space he has to use and what he can do, talking to me the entire time to ask what he can and cant cut off!

    I'm very excited to see what comes of this development, hopefully it will produce an inter cooler that all S3's can use....
    Who said speed kills!?!?....But dangerous driving on the other hand....
    Ibis White S3 Sportback - ?bhp - ?lb/ft (Being Fixed)
    Mods: LED's Throughout, Milltek TBE, Revo S2+, Forge CAI (Gold), K&W V3's 25mm, H&R ARB's, Powerflex Bushes, Autotech HPFP, Sachs Clutch, Forge DV, Jonny's PCV Mod, Defi Boost Gauge, Pro Alloy Intercooler, 18" OZ Alleggerita's, NGK Iridium Spark Plugs, VI Performance Monitor, Road Angel Pro Connected
    Full OEM Springs and Shocks for sale from 2008 S3 CLICK ME

  8. #7
    hatmeow's Avatar
    Turbo is the only way....

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    Does anyone know what the gains are (lowered temp) when compared to a forge FMIC twintercooler?
    A3 2.0T Sportback DSG.

    Engine / Trans:
    K04, Unitronic Stg II+ & DSG Stg II, S3 Injectors and Intercooler, APR F/Pump. BSH Intake, Forge DV, Oettinger Turbo Outlet, Eurojet throttle pipe, Milltek TBE. SP Meth Injection.

    Brakes and Suspension:
    Brembo 6 pot w/ 345mm slotted disks, TT front suspension, HPA Coliovers, OZ Palladio, 225/40/18 BS RE001

    Others:
    S3 Front, Pedals, & Mirrors, 09 SB Skirts & LED Rear Lights, Original HID retrofit, Oettinger Roof Spoiler. Defi Turbo Guage, FBMFSW

  9. #8
    Fast,not furious's Avatar
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    Sounds good Toby,you're really going for it aren't you!

    Keep us posted,it'll be an interesting one....


    S3 Brilliant Red - 340bhp

    Custom Code Phase 2 + PSS, Autotech pump, Hybrid Forge/ITG Maxogen CAI /Reflactagold, Sprint Booster, Forge Quickshift, Forge DV, Denso Iridium sparks, PCV mod/oil catch can, R8 oil filler cap, Sachs performance clutch,Exhausts UK custom stainless TBE, Braille no-weight battery,PIAA mirror white DRL's,exterior + interior leds, AndyMac's Sub upgrade, H&R springs, VMR VB3 18x8.5 gunmetal alloys wearing BF Goodrich G-force 235/40

  10. #9
    tobycruse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast,not furious View Post
    Sounds good Toby,you're really going for it aren't you!

    Keep us posted,it'll be an interesting one....
    Without going bigger turbo I have always wanted the most out of the K04 2.0T engine. Once I reach this limit I will know when to stop!
    Who said speed kills!?!?....But dangerous driving on the other hand....
    Ibis White S3 Sportback - ?bhp - ?lb/ft (Being Fixed)
    Mods: LED's Throughout, Milltek TBE, Revo S2+, Forge CAI (Gold), K&W V3's 25mm, H&R ARB's, Powerflex Bushes, Autotech HPFP, Sachs Clutch, Forge DV, Jonny's PCV Mod, Defi Boost Gauge, Pro Alloy Intercooler, 18" OZ Alleggerita's, NGK Iridium Spark Plugs, VI Performance Monitor, Road Angel Pro Connected
    Full OEM Springs and Shocks for sale from 2008 S3 CLICK ME

  11. #10
    Spin140's Avatar
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    Good stuff keep us posted
    Wife - 12 BMW 320D 181 bhp, 8 Speed Auto, Melbourne Red, Heated Leather, privacy.
    10 S3 SB, Phantom, Buckets,Int light Pack, Privacy. (Sold)
    Golf GTi MK6 - Revo stage 2, ITG, Milltek Race TBE, AP Racing 4 pot BBK - Sold.
    10 S3 SB, Phantom, Buckets,Int light Pack, Privacy,Nav, Park sensors, 6 disc, Revo Stage 1, ITG Enclosed Intake - Sold
    BMW M135i F20 - Bloody good straight from the box !

    "Fast Cars are Safer...."

  12. #11
    tobycruse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatmeow View Post
    Does anyone know what the gains are (lowered temp) when compared to a forge FMIC twintercooler?
    Will only know this when they have finished the development. Wayne did say that the forge twintercooler is a bad design as you still have the restrictions of the OEM intercooler. One bigger intercooler will produce more effective results. So watch this space!
    Who said speed kills!?!?....But dangerous driving on the other hand....
    Ibis White S3 Sportback - ?bhp - ?lb/ft (Being Fixed)
    Mods: LED's Throughout, Milltek TBE, Revo S2+, Forge CAI (Gold), K&W V3's 25mm, H&R ARB's, Powerflex Bushes, Autotech HPFP, Sachs Clutch, Forge DV, Jonny's PCV Mod, Defi Boost Gauge, Pro Alloy Intercooler, 18" OZ Alleggerita's, NGK Iridium Spark Plugs, VI Performance Monitor, Road Angel Pro Connected
    Full OEM Springs and Shocks for sale from 2008 S3 CLICK ME

  13. #12
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    I have to say that whilst the Twintercooler is quite a clever idea it's still basically an engineering kludge,using a piggy-backed secondary intercooler where a better solution would be a single,properly designed large intercooler.

    The thing that toby's helping to develop sounds like a proper solution to raised inlet temperatures.

    If it comes to production,I'd be very interested,as I don't really want to be looking at big turbo conversions,but would like to get the most out of the current one.
    Last edited by S3Alex; 23rd May 2009 at 06:32.

  14. #13
    Forge's Avatar
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    I can assure you that we conducted a thorough design and test proceedure when developing the twintercooler soloution , we didnt just " cludge " it together , whilst testing tube and fin designs and also bar and plate , the stock VAG IC takes some improving on , we test various solotions and found the Twintercooler the best way forward , these figures are for the Golf but are very very close to the S3
    we are not in the habit of making things that do not work
    http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/med...ic_v_stock.pdf
    http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/med...tock_power.pdf
    http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/med...ock_torque.pdf

    This set up works , there are no restrictions , we supply this to many leading tuners , and 3 S3 Nurenburg race cars in Germany using the Forge S3 custom and Twintercooler set up..

  15. #14
    N8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forge View Post
    we are not in the habit of making things that do not work
    You got that right! I know this is off topic, but I had a Forge FMIC fitted to my cousin's Big Turbo 340bhp TT the other day and boy its made a hell of a difference, power remains stronger, engine bay ALOT LOT cooler, superb bit of kit!

    Wondered why you didn't use Forge Toby, but good luck and keep us posted!

  16. #15
    Staz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forge View Post
    This set up works , there are no restrictions , we supply this to many leading tuners , and 3 S3 Nurenburg race cars in Germany using the Forge S3 custom and Twintercooler set up..
    Nurenburg? Where is that?
    8P2 S3

    For advice on Air Con problems please read my FAQs.
    To find ASN members with VCDS check out the MAP.

  17. #16
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forge View Post
    found the Twintercooler the best way forward , these figures are for the Golf but are very very close to the S3
    we are not in the habit of making things that do not work......

    ..................and 3 S3 Nurenburg race cars in Germany using the Forge S3 custom and Twintercooler set up..
    I don't recall my post saying your product didn't work,and I would hope not as I'm considering adding one of your intake systems to my car.

    What I did say was that it's not as "elegant" or straightforward an engineering solution as a single larger intercooler,such as the one being developed by Proalloy.

    If you have similar graphs available for tuned and stock S3s it would be very helpful and interesting,as the figures you've given are for a car with power levels just about equivalent to a stock S3 as opposed to one with 30-40% more power.

    Just out of curiosity.....you have several other large single intercooler products for other cars,including the original RS500 intercooler....what made you choose the Twintercooler arrangement for the new S3?
    Last edited by S3Alex; 23rd May 2009 at 06:37.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    I have to say that whilst the Twintercooler is quite a clever idea it's still basically an engineering kludge,using a piggy-backed secondary intercooler where a better solution would be a single,properly designed large intercooler.

    The thing that toby's helping to develop sounds like a proper solution to raised inlet temperatures.

    If it comes to production,I'd be very interested,as I don't really want to be looking at big turbo conversions,but would like to get the most out of the current one.
    that makes alot of sense. l will be watching this development.

  19. #18
    hatmeow's Avatar
    Turbo is the only way....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forge View Post
    .... , the stock VAG IC takes some improving on , we test various solotions and found the Twintercooler the best way forward , these figures are for the Golf but are very very close to the S3
    we are not in the habit of making things that do not work
    ..
    Just curious... The S3 intercooler is about 30% more efficient than the GTI one... how is it "very very" close to the GTI graph? Originally I have the A3 2.0T IC with the plastic ends and have recently changed to the S3 intercooler. The difference is very obvious. Can you show us a graph comparing the stock S3 IC with / without the Forge FMIC?
    A3 2.0T Sportback DSG.

    Engine / Trans:
    K04, Unitronic Stg II+ & DSG Stg II, S3 Injectors and Intercooler, APR F/Pump. BSH Intake, Forge DV, Oettinger Turbo Outlet, Eurojet throttle pipe, Milltek TBE. SP Meth Injection.

    Brakes and Suspension:
    Brembo 6 pot w/ 345mm slotted disks, TT front suspension, HPA Coliovers, OZ Palladio, 225/40/18 BS RE001

    Others:
    S3 Front, Pedals, & Mirrors, 09 SB Skirts & LED Rear Lights, Original HID retrofit, Oettinger Roof Spoiler. Defi Turbo Guage, FBMFSW

  20. #19
    tobycruse's Avatar
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    Just spoken to Wayne, got some very interesting feedback.

    1) He noticed the inlet temps dropped when the A/C is switched on. This, he says, is because the OEM intercooler is not very efficient letting air pass through it, the fan helps push it through. Putting the A/C on should have the opposite effect.

    2) Wayne has managed to replace the OEM inter cooler with one that is 10% bigger in the same space. Also the cooler he is installing is much more efficient at air flow and air passing through the actual cooler. This will help cooling all round for all the radiators!

    He hopes to have it completed this Friday, but as i am in Devon i hope to be getting it Monday / Tuesday! Very excited to see the results!
    Who said speed kills!?!?....But dangerous driving on the other hand....
    Ibis White S3 Sportback - ?bhp - ?lb/ft (Being Fixed)
    Mods: LED's Throughout, Milltek TBE, Revo S2+, Forge CAI (Gold), K&W V3's 25mm, H&R ARB's, Powerflex Bushes, Autotech HPFP, Sachs Clutch, Forge DV, Jonny's PCV Mod, Defi Boost Gauge, Pro Alloy Intercooler, 18" OZ Alleggerita's, NGK Iridium Spark Plugs, VI Performance Monitor, Road Angel Pro Connected
    Full OEM Springs and Shocks for sale from 2008 S3 CLICK ME

  21. #20
    Fast,not furious's Avatar
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    Sounds good Toby,looking forward to feedback and figures


    S3 Brilliant Red - 340bhp

    Custom Code Phase 2 + PSS, Autotech pump, Hybrid Forge/ITG Maxogen CAI /Reflactagold, Sprint Booster, Forge Quickshift, Forge DV, Denso Iridium sparks, PCV mod/oil catch can, R8 oil filler cap, Sachs performance clutch,Exhausts UK custom stainless TBE, Braille no-weight battery,PIAA mirror white DRL's,exterior + interior leds, AndyMac's Sub upgrade, H&R springs, VMR VB3 18x8.5 gunmetal alloys wearing BF Goodrich G-force 235/40

  22. #21
    N8
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    Indeed, well done Toby!

  23. #22
    devonmikeyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobycruse View Post
    He hopes to have it completed this Friday, but as i am in Devon i hope to be getting it Monday / Tuesday! Very excited to see the results!
    Where are you in Devon?
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

 

 

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