EM TuningChris Nott
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    44

    dsg driving technique

    Just reading some info on the DSG on wikipedia and it mentions that when stationary it is recommended that N gear be engaged.
    I always just keep it in D. Does anyone else put it in N and is it really recommended?


    wikipedia:
    N position of the floor-mounted shift lever means that the transmission is in "neutral". Just like in P above, both clutch packs and all gear-sets are fully disengaged; however, the parking lock is disengaged. This position should be used when the motor vehicle is stationary for any period of time, such as red traffic lights, or waiting in a queue of stationary traffic. The DSG should not be kept in any of the other active gear modes, and be held in a stationary position on the footbrake for periods longer than a brief period - due to the clutches being held on the bite point.

  2. # ADS
    ADS
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many
     
  3. #2
    Skittler's Avatar
    Redlined

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Wokingham, UK
    Posts
    131
    I don't bother swapping out from D (or from +/-) if I think I'll only be stopped for a short time. In general I only move to N in situations where I'm putting the handbrake on, i.e. if the stop is long enough to use the handbrake then use N. and take your foot off the footbrake.
    But I do tend to swap to N more often if there is a car waiting behind me (especially at night) out of consideration, as otherwise they have to sit staring at the high-level brake light.
    Dave.
    2006 Audi A3 3.2 Quattro S-line DSG in Lava Grey.
    Symphony II, BOSE, Parking Sensor, Cruise Control.
    TomTom Go 700, Parrot 3100

    Previously...
    2002 Alfa Romeo 156 2.0 Selespeed Veloce. Yum - nuff said.
    1993-2002 Eight Vauxhalls - mandatory for company scheme. Highlights were two Vectra 2.5 V6 GSi's - one of which R.I.P.
    1991 Peugeot 205 1.4 XS. On the right road, possibly the most fun of anything I've ever driven.
    1989 Talbot Horizon 1.3. Yeah, yeah, but it was fine - honest.

  4. #3
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Florida (previously Liverpool)
    Posts
    655
    If I'm going to be stopped for 30-60 seconds or more, I always tap it into neutral. It's sort of like being in a manual car on a slight upward hill, and 'holding' the car with the clutch... you'll wear it out faster.

    -It uses less petrol too, if you take it out of 'D' when the brakes are on... (since the drive-by-wire throttle opens more to keep the revs from dropping when the engine/clutch-pack tries to slow it down).

    Keith

  5. #4
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    106
    I usually knock it into "N" most times I'm stationary, just as I would a manual.
    regards
    dave
    A3 2.0Tfsi D.S.G Sportback. Leather, light and rain pack, Interior light pack, bose, bluetooth, 6cd, multifunction wheel, cruise, Heated front/rear seats, Folding mirrors, rear parking sensors , ipod connection in glove box, open sky roof, dual climate, sun blinds, electric drivers seat,

  6. #5
    luke1987's Avatar
    Air Ride is for Ballers!!

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Baller Central
    Posts
    616
    i always put it in N when i stop just incase i take my foot of the break, saves goin in the back of someone by accident. just a precaution really

  7. #6
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    82
    I've done nearly 60K miles, on my current DSG and have never done this, but mine is a Passat at the moment with auto hold (automatic parking/hand brake), so don't have to worry about 'auto creep'. but this is something I will consider when I get my S3.

    I would like to know where wiki got this info. from. I am going to dig around more and try to fine out

    -mark
    S3 Sportback; DSG, MRC, ITG.

  8. #7
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    41
    In my experience, there is no clutch-drag whatsoever when my foot is pressed on the brake pedal and the Wikipedia quote is simply wrong, at least with regard to my A3 8P Sportback and the A3 8P 3-door I had before that.

    Whilst the brake pedal is pressed, an electrical contact is operated which disengages the clutches completely. It's exactly the same electrical contact which prevents the gear selector from being moved out of Park unless the brake pedal is pressed. This is, in fact, one of the crucial differences between the DSG and "normal" automatic gearboxes with hydraulic couplings, because the latter do drag when the car is stationary and in drive mode where the DSG doesn't.

    If you don't have an automatic parking-brake option, try just taking your foot off the brake pedal whilst in Drive but without touching the accelerator. You will feel and hear the first clutch start to engage after about 1 second.

    If you are in Park, try just putting your foot on the brake pedal then taking it off; you will hear (and feel through the lever) the click of the electrical interlock acting on the gear selector with a delay of about 1 second.

    I do select Neutral with the hand brake on at traffic lights sometimes as a courtesy to avoid annoying drivers behind me with my brake lights, but it is mechanically unnecessary.
    Dave N

  9. #8
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    44
    thanks Renrew, I thought (hoped) something was amiss with Wikipedia as there's no mention of clutch bite/damage in the drivers manual by not using N when stationary.
    Hoping someone with mechanical knowledge of DSG can chime in. I wonder where the Wiki entry came from?

  10. #9
    Skittler's Avatar
    Redlined

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Wokingham, UK
    Posts
    131
    As Wiki is user-editable (natch), perhaps someone would like to do an edit
    Dave.
    2006 Audi A3 3.2 Quattro S-line DSG in Lava Grey.
    Symphony II, BOSE, Parking Sensor, Cruise Control.
    TomTom Go 700, Parrot 3100

    Previously...
    2002 Alfa Romeo 156 2.0 Selespeed Veloce. Yum - nuff said.
    1993-2002 Eight Vauxhalls - mandatory for company scheme. Highlights were two Vectra 2.5 V6 GSi's - one of which R.I.P.
    1991 Peugeot 205 1.4 XS. On the right road, possibly the most fun of anything I've ever driven.
    1989 Talbot Horizon 1.3. Yeah, yeah, but it was fine - honest.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by renfrew View Post
    In my experience, there is no clutch-drag whatsoever when my foot is pressed on the brake pedal and the Wikipedia quote is simply wrong, at least with regard to my A3 8P Sportback and the A3 8P 3-door I had before that.

    Whilst the brake pedal is pressed, an electrical contact is operated which disengages the clutches completely. It's exactly the same electrical contact which prevents the gear selector from being moved out of Park unless the brake pedal is pressed. This is, in fact, one of the crucial differences between the DSG and "normal" automatic gearboxes with hydraulic couplings, because the latter do drag when the car is stationary and in drive mode where the DSG doesn't.

    If you don't have an automatic parking-brake option, try just taking your foot off the brake pedal whilst in Drive but without touching the accelerator. You will feel and hear the first clutch start to engage after about 1 second.

    If you are in Park, try just putting your foot on the brake pedal then taking it off; you will hear (and feel through the lever) the click of the electrical interlock acting on the gear selector with a delay of about 1 second.

    I do select Neutral with the hand brake on at traffic lights sometimes as a courtesy to avoid annoying drivers behind me with my brake lights, but it is mechanically unnecessary.
    I agree. That's how the DSG/S-tronic works. It has always annoyed me when the driver in front has an automatic and is too lazy to select Neutral when they are stopped and I always vowed I would not do the same to others. I always select Neutral and put the hand-brake on when stopped. I use the tiptronic mode most of the time and drive in the same way as a manual but with an automatic clutch.
    Last edited by h5djr; 3rd May 2009 at 13:48.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  12. #11
    HotboxDeluxe's Avatar
    automatic

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Heidelberg, DE
    Posts
    1,127
    I try to follow this example but it doesn't really work for me on a hill for example...I'm quite happy to put it in N but my handbrake is tosh and I'd much rather blind them with brake lights for a bit than roll backwards into them

    Plus it doesn't seem to make a difference if I leave it in D or not...when I attempt to move off by gently blowing on the accelerator 9 times out of 10 it dithers long enough for the impatient arse behind to go for his horn before shooting me off in the direction I'm going like a sodding learner driver

    DSG: Genius when the car is going more than 20 mph, anything slower and it's

    I'm seriously considering giving this car to the wifey next year and getting myself a manual...anything. Or even a conventional auto, as long as it doesn't try to be clever. the cleverer the car it seems, the less I like to drive it. Technology? Bah, you can keep it.

    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

  13. #12
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Florida (previously Liverpool)
    Posts
    655
    Quote Originally Posted by renfrew View Post
    Whilst the brake pedal is pressed, an electrical contact is operated which disengages the clutches completely. It's exactly the same electrical contact which prevents the gear selector from being moved out of Park unless the brake pedal is pressed. This is, in fact, one of the crucial differences between the DSG and "normal" automatic gearboxes with hydraulic couplings, because the latter do drag when the car is stationary and in drive mode where the DSG doesn't.
    You're partly right.. but ONLY partly. the last part of what you wrote is absolutely and completely wrong, at least with regard to the later versions.

    The 'electrical contact' (which is in fact the same which is used to activate the brake lights) leaves the clutches partially engaged. -The purpose of this is to allow the user to 'creep' forward by modulating the pressure on the brake pedal alone.

    You can FEEL the clutches engage MORE FULLY a second or two AFTER you let off the brake pedal, more so if you have the handbrake engaged to provide a more effective resistance against which you can assess the clutch-engagement.

    Earlier software versions did indeed disconnect the clutches more completely, but automatic-only drivers (who were used to the torque convertor behaviour, and inching their car forward into a parking space by using only modulated brake pressure) complained that they couldn't do it at all well with the DSGs.

    So there should be some qualification as to the software version, but basically for later software versions, the wiki quote above is in fact quite correct, and any assertion that the clutches are fully disengaged will only be occasionally true, for the earlier versions.

    If what Renfrew wrote was correct, there would be no way for my car to inch forward... up a slight incline... with me having my foot on the brake. -but it does.

    Keith

  14. #13
    You are right Keith. I use just the brake to control my A3 putting in into my garage. I have to get it so the LH door mirror is very close to the brick garage door pillar otherwise once it's in the garage I cannot get out of the car. I do this without touching the throttle pedal, just the brake.

    The same was true with my 2007 Sportback but I cannot remember if it was the same with my 2004 A3.

    Also I think my new 2009 Sportback has the 'hill-hold' function. I need to try it out a bit more but it seemed to hold on a hill the other day. I did not specify the 'hill-hold' on my order and it's no longer listed as an option, so perhaps it's now included as standard on new models.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  15. #14
    Igdos's Avatar
    2nd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    321
    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    Also I think my new 2009 Sportback has the 'hill-hold' function. I need to try it out a bit more but it seemed to hold on a hill the other day. I did not specify the 'hill-hold' on my order and it's no longer listed as an option, so perhaps it's now included as standard on new models.
    Yes it's got this function, if you keep foot on the brake on an incline for a couple of seconds and then release, the car will hold for another few seconds to allow an easy pull-away.

    Congratulations on the promotion to mod!
    A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI 140 Sport S-Tronic (8P3)

    Aruba Blue

    Alu Roof Rails*Cruise*BOSE*USB

  16. #15
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by VWAddict View Post
    You're partly right.. but ONLY partly. the last part of what you wrote is absolutely and completely wrong, at least with regard to the later versions.

    The 'electrical contact' (which is in fact the same which is used to activate the brake lights) leaves the clutches partially engaged. -The purpose of this is to allow the user to 'creep' forward by modulating the pressure on the brake pedal alone.
    ...

    If what Renfrew wrote was correct, there would be no way for my car to inch forward... up a slight incline... with me having my foot on the brake. -but it does.

    Keith
    I accept what you say. That is why I started my remarks with the words "in my experience".

    I had a 3-door in 2004 and the Sportback in 2005, and what I wrote is what occurs with the versions of the DSG that I have experienced. My cars would not creep with my foot on the brake, whether or not I tried to modulate the pressure. The drive was taken up only if I took my foot off the brake entirely. The Wikipedia article is "absolutely and completely wrong" with respect to the cars I have owned. I cannot speak for newer versions of the DSG.

    EDIT: It also occurs to me now that launch control would be very dangerous if there was any drag on the clutch whilst the brake pedal was being pressed. The couple of times that I tried launch control there was no indication of any clutch drag whatsoever, and the revs were held at about 3500rpm until I took my foot off the brake entirely.
    Last edited by renfrew; 3rd May 2009 at 15:54.
    Dave N

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO

Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO