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  1. #1
    Smoke me a kipper...

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    S3 vs new Ford Focus RS?

    I've noticed this months (May) car mags have all been publishing their own independant performance figures for the new Focus RS, now a few are out of the showrooms and onto UK roads. Most are finding it is a little quicker than Ford's own figures, but not that much quicker and interestingly, not as quick as an S3. The best 0 -60 for the RS I have seen quoted is 5.7 secs. S3 is 5.6 secs (seen 5.7 recorded by Autocar - in the wet!). 0 - 100 for the Focus and that's 13.9 compared to 13.6 for the S3.

    This all begs the question - why has no one put the two together? I know the S3 costs a wee bit more, but I think I am not alone in getting fed up by the pub talk in the mags about the RS being the best, fastest hatch, etc... I know one thing, give me a wet back road and let's see if an RS can keep up with me
    Last edited by Esox Mark; 30th April 2009 at 12:57.

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  3. #2
    Khufu's Avatar
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    TBH, in the real world the figures look exactly the same.

    To me, you can go to Tesco & buy a pair of jeans for 15 or you you could buy a pair of Levi for 50, both cover you butt, both will last as long but what would you rather wear?
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    I have an opinion it looks bloody awful

    Plus it's what? 300 bhp? And FWD, so in my mind I've automatically written it off as crap. And in real life, I'd probably just write it off

    I'm not a Ford hater, I actually quite like them (better than Vauxhalls, any road) but this new aRSe is steaming dog toss. Mustang please!
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

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    One very good reason not to buy a Focus... Its a barge:

    Hope you dont mind me pinching your pics Jamiekip:




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    Probably all down to Euro ncap thingies. I bet the next S3 comes with a retractable stepladder too The new Dumbo Ears are just the start of things...

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    It looks so much bigger than the S3. Never noticed it before though.
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  8. #7
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    The S3 looks tiny inbetween the lardy Focus and Astra VXr

  9. #8
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    I only got around the reading this months Evo last week and it's pretty interesting. The last paragragh states that at no time did the writer ever want for 4WD. Also in the same issue is the test of a 400+ Golf GTi, 400+ S3, 400+ VXR and a 330 odd ST. The S3 was by far the fastest (although not by the in gear times figures but who cares about that) and the overall decision was that they'd prefer the ST!

    It may be a good FWD car but the fact that they have to restrict the torque in 1st gear tells me it's too much power for the front wheels.

    This could end up being one of those long threads btw. 4WD/FWD always gets people going.

    For me, if I had the choice again I'd still go for the S3. No contest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by staz1000 View Post
    This could end up being one of those long threads btw. 4WD/FWD always gets people going.

    For me, if I had the choice again I'd still go for the S3. No contest.
    Snap. I'm not an Audi fanboy but it's the S3 every single time, if the choice is between that and a pair of lardy wrong-wheel drive ****ters

    And mentioning the BMW 130i usually makes a thread even longer, so and all the way
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

  11. #10
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    Lets leave that aurgument for another day. Lets focus on asking the question why EVO chose the ST over all the others. Answers on a postcard.

    My view is - As the ST is in reach for most average Joe Bloggs, they side with it, im not sure why. Bang for buck??

    I would NEVER take the word of any magazine to be honest. All the reviews i ever read are tainted with Bias due to one reason or another. Shame really. The same old addage applies, get out and test your shortlist, never trust the magazines..

    The S3 never wins awards, comes in the top tests etc etc, all because it is viewed as over priced. What the hell has that got to do with it???

    Stick two cars of the same calibre in the ring and let them duke it out, price should not even be an issue as far as performance is concerned, but obviously the mags view otherwise.
    Last edited by WiZBiT; 30th April 2009 at 14:32.

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    How much is the RS?
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

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    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

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    Nice colour reproduction in their online configurator then.... yuck!

    No probs posting up my pics WizBit.
    Agree with your comments about mag reviews on the S3... Autocar seemed to be the only mag who didn't mark it way down due to price. They had it as one of the quickest point to point cars and loved the interior.
    Evo (going down hill but still subscribed ), seem to hate Audi's.... every article seems to read the same bar the R8 and RS4.


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    28 and a half grand? *chokes* yeah right, bargain

    Sorry, if I was spending nearly 30 bags on a new car I'd rather something slower, that didn't look like it was designed by a 15-year old Max Powerist
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

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    I know it's just going to get shouted down as yet another biased review, but....

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallp...AR=239816&CT=V

    And yes, in my totally uninformed opinion (only driven my ST, not the RS, S3 or GT-R natch), I'm sure 4WD does have its place, especially on wet / greasy roads, but I'd still be VERY tempted to get the RS....

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by razzleultra View Post
    I know it's just going to get shouted down as yet another biased review, but....

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallp...AR=239816&CT=V

    And yes, in my totally uninformed opinion (only driven my ST, not the RS, S3 or GT-R natch), I'm sure 4WD does have its place, especially on wet / greasy roads, but I'd still be VERY tempted to get the RS....

    Have a Drive of the S3 then

    *waits for EssThree to chip in with how dull and generally sh*t it is even though he's never owned one, but had an 8L so the 8P must be the same etc etc*

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiZBiT View Post
    Have a Drive of the S3 then

    *waits for EssThree to chip in with how dull and generally sh*t it is even though he's never owned one, but had an 8L so the 8P must be the same etc etc*
    If it wasn't for the fact that I'm trading down at the end of summer, I'd definitely be tempted

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    The latest edition of EVO has tested the performance of the RS and put it round the Bedford Aerodrome track, and it shows the S3 is faster in both areas! Now they changed the layout of the Bedford track marginally to make it quicker, which would mean the RS is slower still! One of the European mags AutoSport (I think) has tried the RS around the Hockenhiem short circuit, and again it is slightly slower than the time for the S3.
    So even if you said they were equal, why with all the extra power and supposedly fanatastic handling is this so?

  20. #19
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    lol @ 2:33, the way the skyline left the focus... I mean come on, I cant beleive theyre actually trying to rationalise comparing the two How much is Ford payin em?

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    Different cars plain and simple, i would put the focus in the same breath as the evo and impreza (yes i know its fwd)

    The audi is a classier car with a quality feel and performance which any driver can exploit, having said that i will put money on it that the focus is more of a drivers car and will be more fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiZBiT View Post
    lol @ 2:33, the way the skyline left the focus... I mean come on, I cant beleive theyre actually trying to rationalise comparing the two How much is Ford payin em?
    Yeah but the point they're trying to make is a fair one IMHO.

    On real roads, how much performance can you actually put down? Sure, on a dual-carriageway, you can always use more power, but personally I can't think of anything more boring than booting it down a stretch of straight road. That's certainly why I've shyed away from more power, and focussed more on handling.

    Supercars (alright, maybe stretching the definition a little), like the GT-R maybe be absolute track monsters, but do they flatter the driver enough, and give enough confidence to hammer it in the real world?

    As S3 drivers, I'd have thought you'd all be agreeing with this as surely that's the point of a 4WD hot hatch, to get amazing real world performance without chickening out because you're driving a super-stiff 7ft wide track car.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sohrob View Post
    i will put money on it that the focus is more of a drivers car and will be more fun.
    Depends which driver

    Not for me I'm afraid, I may have hinted
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by razzleultra View Post
    Yeah but the point they're trying to make is a fair one IMHO.

    On real roads, how much performance can you actually put down? Sure, on a dual-carriageway, you can always use more power, but personally I can't think of anything more boring than booting it down a stretch of straight road. That's certainly why I've shyed away from more power, and focussed more on handling.

    Supercars (alright, maybe stretching the definition a little), like the GT-R maybe be absolute track monsters, but do they flatter the driver enough, and give enough confidence to hammer it in the real world?

    As S3 drivers, I'd have thought you'd all be agreeing with this as surely that's the point of a 4WD hot hatch, to get amazing real world performance without chickening out because you're driving a super-stiff 7ft wide track car.

    I dont know. I just dont get it. Infact id go as far as to say that clip you pointed me towards just winds me up for the simple reason I dont know what point its trying to make???

    Its like saying look how much more powerful this spud gun is compared to an ak47 in the real world. I shot my mate in the face with a spudgun and he got a right bruise, however i was unable to unload the ak as it is illegal to do so.


    AND YOUR POINT IS?????


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    Quote Originally Posted by WiZBiT View Post

    AND YOUR POINT IS?????

    That if you're looking to go fast from point to point on twisty narrow UK roads, buying a car based on it's 'ring time, isn't necessarily your best guide....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadracer View Post
    The latest edition of EVO has tested the performance of the RS and put it round the Bedford Aerodrome track, and it shows the S3 is faster in both areas! Now they changed the layout of the Bedford track marginally to make it quicker, which would mean the RS is slower still! One of the European mags AutoSport (I think) has tried the RS around the Hockenhiem short circuit, and again it is slightly slower than the time for the S3.
    So even if you said they were equal, why with all the extra power and supposedly fanatastic handling is this so?

    Was that a standard S3 they put round the track?

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    Quote Originally Posted by razzleultra View Post
    That if you're looking to go fast from point to point on twisty narrow UK roads, buying a car based on it's 'ring time, isn't necessarily your best guide....
    Just so you know, the guns etc werent aimed at you, they were aimed at the muppets trying to present a case forward for comparing the focus with the GTR.

    And, lastly, why isnt the ring time a good guide???

    Its like saying the Honda Jazz is as good at getting you round town as the Focus RS, so the ring times might not be your best guide.

    See what I did there?
    Last edited by WiZBiT; 30th April 2009 at 15:40.

  28. #27
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    RS approx 24k but add leather etc and it around the same as a basic S3.

    I think the S3 would be pretty mean out on the road and makes all the right noises if into max power etc, far too 'loud' for me but I don't think its aimed at the same market, like it or not I think Ford should be applauded for putting it into production in the current financial climate and in many ways it arrives uncompromised as standard which is exactly what an RS3 would achieve if it ever arrives.

    Judgement though should be reserved until the car has actually been driven, when all the fuss has died down I Plan to take one out with no intention to buy just for the hell of it.

    On a positive note these cars could become great bargains when they hit the 2 year old mark, have you seen how little ST's are worth these days ?!?
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  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin140 View Post
    RS approx 24k but add leather etc and it around the same as a basic S3.
    As shown in post #13 of this thread:

    S3 vs new Ford Focus RS?

    But the base price is nearly 26k
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

  30. #29
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    Basic S3 or specced-up Focus RS...hmm, not a tough choice for me. Torque-steering max-powerer fails
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiZBiT View Post
    Just so you know, the guns etc werent aimed at you, they were aimed at the muppets trying to present a case forward for comparing the focus with the GTR.

    And, lastly, why isnt the ring time a good guide???

    Its like saying the Honda Jazz is as good at getting you round town as the Focus RS, so the ring times might not be your best guide.

    See what I did there?
    LOL, likewise the ring comment wasn't aimed at you (or really anyone in particular).

    I think the point is that cars like the GT-R get hyped up as the 'last word' in speed, and a lot of that comes from their lap-times, be it on the top-gear test track, the ring or wherever.

    And, as I'm sure we all know, lap-times don't always translate into good b-road speed.

    I'm sure the one point everyone can agree on is that it's down to a test drive more than anything else.

    Would you rather be able to average 70mph cross country in a car that scares you (too much), and you hate, or 65mph in a car that makes you feel great?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotboxDeluxe View Post
    Torque-steering max-powerer fails
    Driven one already then?

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    I just think that If you had a GTR, and I had a Focus RS, and we went for a jolly round some funky b roads. You would abosutley spank me. End of.

    That clip is more marketing/hype from the marketing machine.

    How many ppl can afford a GTR?
    How many ppl can afford an RS?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiZBiT View Post
    I just think that If you had a GTR, and I had a Focus RS, and we went for a jolly round some funky b roads. You would abosutley spank me. End of.

    That clip is more marketing/hype from the marketing machine.

    How many ppl can afford a GTR?
    How many ppl can afford an RS?
    I'd say it would depend on the b-roads.

    Reasonably wide, but still twisty, I'd put all my money on the GT-R

    Narrow and twisty...... that GT-R is BIG car.... it certainly wouldn't be all my money... :D

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by razzleultra View Post
    Driven one already then?
    Don't need to, I've got blind prejudice on my side nissan GT-R is **** as well, hate it

    No, seriously. I drove a Focus ST (standard) fairly hard and I liked it. Really liked it, looked nice, I'm a fan of the Volvo five-pot, but I also thought "this will be horrible with much more power". In the same week I drove a heavily boosted Mk1 Focus RS and while giggling at the lunacy of it, thought "this is fun but I couldn't live with it". I'm just giving my opinion. Had a Volvo T5R. I'm just not a fan of FWD, particularly with much more than 200 horses...

    To quote you : "Would you rather be able to average 70mph cross country in a car that scares you (too much), and you hate, or 65mph in a car that makes you feel great?"

    I'd rather go 65 mph on a country road in a nice car that makes me feel great. And for my tastes, that's usually rear-wheel drive. And there's several alternatives at Focus RS money. Slower, but I wouldn't care. I wouldn't have to drive around with a bag on my head. If it looked like the ST I wouldn't be quite so racist about it, but just look at the bloody thing



    How old was the designer, 12? Everyone slates the 130i for being pig ugly (and to a certain extent I agree!) but at least it looks like it was designed by someone old enough to have pubes.
    Last edited by HotboxDeluxe; 30th April 2009 at 16:18. Reason: spelling crud
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotboxDeluxe View Post
    but at least it looks like it was designed by someone old enough to have pubes.
    Rightly or wrongly, FPMSL -

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiZBiT View Post
    How many ppl can afford a GTR?
    How many ppl can afford an RS?
    If I could afford either of them, I'd definately buy something else. I'd have an M3 over a GTR every time - alright it's slower (meh who cares) but you can use all the performance without needing a new gearbox at the end of the week. Next!
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotboxDeluxe View Post
    No, seriously. I drove a Focus ST (standard) fairly hard and I liked it. Really liked it, looked nice, I'm a fan of the Volvo five-pot, but I also thought "this will be horrible with much more power". In the same week I drove a heavily boosted Mk1 Focus RS and while giggling at the lunacy of it, thought "this is fun but I couldn't live with it". I'm just giving my opinion. Had a Volvo T5R. I'm just not a fan of FWD, particularly with much more than 200 horses...

    To quote you : "Would you rather be able to average 70mph cross country in a car that scares you (too much), and you hate, or 65mph in a car that makes you feel great?"

    I'd rather go 65 mph on a country road in a nice car that makes me feel great. And for my tastes, that's usually rear-wheel drive. And there's several alternatives at Focus RS money. Slower, but I wouldn't care. I wouldn't have to drive around with a bag on my head. If it looked like the ST I wouldn't be quite so racist about it, but just look at the bloody thing

    How old was the designer, 12? Everyone slates the 130i for being pig ugly (and to a certain extent I agree!) but at least it looks like it was designed by someone old enough to have pubes.
    I don't disagree with what you're saying, and for what it's worth, whilst I'd love an RS, I'd love it even more if they'd just toned down the styling...

    From what we're hearing on the ST side of things, the mk2 RS is MUCH more sorted than the ST and the mk1 RS, and can easily handle the power.

    I'm running 280bhp in my ST, and the difference it made by adding a proper Quaife LSD was HUGE. Whereas before you were continually spinning power away coming out of corners, you're now gripping and tightening as the diff claws you round. The RS has the same diff AND the revo-knuckle so from what I've heard, it's a different world to both the ST, mk1 RS and T5.

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    I could feel the one in the Mk1 RS doing it's stuff, and while disconcerting, it was definately doing something just had to remember to grab the wheel tight, whereas I'm used to steering with a lighter touch.

    Like I said if it wasn't such an eyesore I wouldn't rag on it so hard, and if they did a Fiesta RS with restrained styling, 200-220 odd horses and an LSD then I'd be interested...
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotboxDeluxe View Post
    I could feel the one in the Mk1 RS doing it's stuff, and while disconcerting, it was definately doing something just had to remember to grab the wheel tight, whereas I'm used to steering with a lighter touch.

    Like I said if it wasn't such an eyesore I wouldn't rag on it so hard, and if they did a Fiesta RS with restrained styling, 200-220 odd horses and an LSD then I'd be interested...
    Rumours are that they're not even bothering with a Fiesta ST.... Which leaves the 'hottest' model as the Mountune'd 140bhp. Very poor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by razzleultra View Post
    Rumours are that they're not even bothering with a Fiesta ST.... Which leaves the 'hottest' model as the Mountune'd 140bhp. Very poor.
    What a load of bummers

    Given the trend for retro styled cars these days, what I'd really like to see from Ford is a new Capri, and it better be bloody RWD I tell thee...
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

 

 
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