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Thread: Golf GTI mk5 vs A3 2.0T FSI vs A3 2.0 TDI 170

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    Golf GTI mk5 vs A3 2.0T FSI vs A3 2.0 TDI 170

    hi all,

    sorry this is another what should i buy thread from me, i promise it will be the last for a while!!

    apart from running costs with the GTI and 2.0T FSI would i have any other benefits going for say the 2.0 TDI 170?

    I love the Golf GTI's the only thing putting me off is running costs - but then im kind of used to them, my current car is a 172 cup which isnt amazing on MPG, tax i think would be exactly the same, and insurance, well a little more expensive with the GTI...

    i guess with the 170 the mpg would be better, insurance from the quotes ive done - slightly better and tax better too

    I just think - this is going to be a car that im going to keep for a long time, i just wonder if i would get bored with a disel after a while?

    also have heard the handling is fantastic with the golf

    I would like to go for an S-line 2.0t FSI but they are just slightly out of my price range (12.5k) and would certainly have less choice - could pick up a really nice golf gti - 20kish miles for about 11.5k

    any thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
    hi all,
    sorry this is another what should i buy thread from me, i promise it will be the last for a while!!

    apart from running costs with the GTI and 2.0T FSI would i have any other benefits going for say the 2.0 TDI 170?
    If you are a fan of torque, the different driving style that comes with the 170 TDI.
    So much torque and so few gear changes required...a lazy driving style almost with a diesel.


    I love the Golf GTI's the only thing putting me off is running costs - but then im kind of used to them, my current car is a 172 cup which isnt amazing on MPG, tax i think would be exactly the same, and insurance, well a little more expensive with the GTI...
    I've not heard horror stories of them, running cost wise...
    You'll see 30ish MPG on the GTI vs 45ish MPG from the 170 TDI...maintenance must be similar.


    I just think - this is going to be a car that im going to keep for a long time, i just wonder if i would get bored with a disel after a while?
    I'm not sure you'd get bored of the 170 TDI...it's a cracking engine...


    also have heard the handling is fantastic with the golf
    It is...
    In a different league to the A3s.
    Of course the A3 can be improved to match the GTI, but out of the box, the GTI is fantastic.


    any thoughts?
    If you want a lovely place to spend many hours...buy the A3.
    If you don't like revving an engine and like wafting along in high gears with loads of torque - buy the A3 170 TDI.
    If you want a car you can grab by the scruff of the neck and really drive it...yet still do the sensible stuff with it when required, I doubt you'd tire of the GTI...however, you'd soon find the A3's standard chassis running out of ideas.


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    If you are not that bothered about fuel consumption, then take the GTI. Having owned and driven various petrol and diesel cars, I would never take a TDI 170 over a 2.0 TFSI. The way a petrol revs makes it a far better car for enthusiastic driving.
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    Pete try the TDI and I am sure you will be surprised on how quick it is,I was and my friends were and have driven a few quick-ish petrol cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voorhees View Post
    Pete try the TDI and I am sure you will be surprised on how quick it is,I was and my friends were and have driven a few quick-ish petrol cars.
    I had a TDI 140 Golf Mk5 and a TDI 140 A4 previously. Yesterday I drove a TDI 170 A4 for the day.

    They go well, and are good engines, but not IMHO as good as a 2.0 TFSI. If you do a lot of mileage then great it will save money. But if fuel consumption isn't the overriding factor, then I'd take the 2.0 Turbo any day.
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    If I had the choice (which I dont due to the milage I do) I would go for the GTi every day of the week.

    The A3 is a fantastic car, but the GTi would be more fun to drive IMO.
    2004 140 TDi sport 3dr (new turbo)

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    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    They go well, and are good engines, but not IMHO as good as a 2.0 TFSI. If you do a lot of mileage then great it will save money. But if fuel consumption isn't the overriding factor, then I'd take the 2.0 Turbo any day.
    I'd dissagree there...
    Not far short of the power and way more torque...
    The 170 makes for a quick car.
    In the A3, with it's chassis the way it is...I don't think a 2.0 TFSI would prove to be quicker anywhere...and the diesel much more relaxing when you aren't in 'hooligan' mode...and way better on fuel to boot.

    It's not all about fuel economy with the diesel...it's the way the torque is delivered and simply the amount of it available everywhere.

    In saying that...comparing the 2 cars mentioned, I'd take the Golf GTI simply because the chassis is just so much better.


    On a side note:
    If rumours of the Mk6 GTI being available as a a 170+ BHP common rail TDI are to believed...I think a Mk6 GTD DSG will be my next car...
    Golf GTI chassis with the 170+ CR TDI engine...sounds like a winner to me.


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    I guess it's down to personal taste. I think diesel engines have moved forward leaps and bounds, but even the TDI 170 I find much less fun to drive enthusiastically than the 2.0 TFSI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    I'd dissagree there...
    Not far short of the power and way more torque...
    The 170 makes for a quick car.
    In the A3, with it's chassis the way it is...I don't think a 2.0 TFSI would prove to be quicker anywhere...and the diesel much more relaxing when you aren't in 'hooligan' mode...and way better on fuel to boot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    I guess it's down to personal taste. I think diesel engines have moved forward leaps and bounds, but even the TDI 170 I find much less fun to drive enthusiastically than the 2.0 TFSI
    I'd agree when you factor in the whole package...and include the chassis.

    I'd take the GTI simply because it's better to drive.

    The 170 TDI is a good engine (as is the 2.0 TFSI though) and with DSG it's really impressive.
    But if enthusiastic driving is on the agenda, then the GTI should be the only option as it'll still entertain long after the A3 has run out of ideas.


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    I think standing starts aside the 170 would be there with an A3 2.0TFSI in most situations.

    A Golf GTi with the CR engine would be fantastic! I really hope they do that!
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
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    diesel 170 qauttro sline 0 to 60 7.9 seconds
    petrol 2.0tfsi qauttro sline 0 to 60 7.1 seconds
    so theres not much difference but better response and slightly quicker more fun to drive in the tfsi id rather spend the money on fuel and keep my petrol over a deisel anyday cos i hate the sound of deisels period


    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I think standing starts aside the 170 would be there with an A3 2.0TFSI in most situations.

    A Golf GTi with the CR engine would be fantastic! I really hope they do that!

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    I did say standing starts aside.... 0-60 only tells you so much about a cars performance
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    diesel 170 qauttro sline 0 to 60 7.9 seconds
    petrol 2.0tfsi qauttro sline 0 to 60 7.1 seconds
    so theres not much difference
    True...off the line.


    but better response and slightly quicker
    I don't agree with better response.
    The 170 TDI has more torque everywhere...so better response.
    It's quicker in gear too.
    Faster for overtaking when feeling lazy...


    more fun to drive in the tfsi id rather spend the money on fuel and keep my petrol over a deisel anyday cos i hate the sound of deisels period
    More fun definately in the petrol...
    I'm not a fan of the diesel rattle either...but can't fail but be impressed with how they are to live with. And this from a person who swore they'd never own a diesel.


    For me, a Golf GTI chassis and looks (in my view, far better looking in GTI trim than the A3) but with a 170+ (preferably 200BHP) diesel with 260+ lb-ft of torque would be an ideal daily driver.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    .... 0-60 only tells you so much about a cars performance
    Not if you 'live your life a quarter of a mile at a time' or are 17 years old.
    Then it's the be all and end all.


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    I do think the Golf GTI looks fantastic, have been toying with getting a Golf GT TDI 170 but there are so few around with lowish mileage and would prefer to get it from VW so i can have the 1 year warranty

    also think any MK5 golf looks pretty average unless in GTI trim - then looks great!!

    have always driven petrol cars although recently have had the use of a Volvo V70 2.5d (D5)

    was a very comfortable drive, had all the extra's you would ever want, was great for long journeys but was more overwhelmed with the comfort and easy of drive than anything, i reckon that would wear out after a while

    also was mainly overwhelmed becuase im used to driving a 172 cup which has stupidly firm suspension and no extra's

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    IMHO Audi TDI's are not possible to compare with Volvo's D5 - I have driven their XC70 with the D5 engine, and my 2.0 TDI 140 feels like a rocket compared to that Swedish battleship :-)
    On the other hand, Volvo's 1.6 diesel is a cracking revvy engine, real fun to drive in the Volvo C30. But, the A3 with it's 140 bhp beats them both of course.
    2008 A3 2.0 TDI S-line

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    Not if you 'live your life a quarter of a mile at a time' or are 17 years old.
    Then it's the be all and end all.
    tee hee
    2004 140 TDi sport 3dr (new turbo)

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    yeah but there basicaly there same car so performance will be the same and handeling from stock .... just petrol is slightly faster .... aside from the seventeen year old loving them figures lol its faster period wish i was seventeen again.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I did say standing starts aside.... 0-60 only tells you so much about a cars performance
    Last edited by 10blazin; 1st March 2009 at 10:52.

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    The MK5 Golf Gti is a great car.
    Well built, good fun, looks great, not too common and has a real kudos about it, I reckon.

    I had an early 54 plate and it wasnt without its problems, seat base, flywheel, A/C compressor, ash tray were all replaced (under warranty), which is not what you would expect from a car like that.

    It does `need` a remap and the brakes are no more than adequate.

    IMO you need the 200ps version or the ED30/Pirelli. I view the other versions as `waterered down` imitations, not proper Gtis.


    Ive had 2 and would have another one anyday.

    Never drove an A3 20TFSI but wanted one for a while, cant see it being that different to the Golf it shares so much with?

    Personally I think the A3 20TFSI in the right colour and S-line spec is a lovely thing and look better than the Golf. And you have the luxury of having a quattro to choose from.

    Get either and youve got a great car.

    Im not a derv fan so wont bother with my own blinkered view


    cheers
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    mine is a 2.tfsi its fast but golfs are alot lighter thus faster if you want fun and speed go for the golf my car is fast though and with remap it would be quicker than the stock 2tfsi golf just 25 brake of an s3 and looks so much better than a golf definatly turns more heads id go 2tfsi any day remap and 19s you wont be dissapointed

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    The MK5 Golf Gti is a great car.
    Well built, good fun, looks great, not too common and has a real kudos about it, I reckon.

    I had an early 54 plate and it wasnt without its problems, seat base, flywheel, A/C compressor, ash tray were all replaced (under warranty), which is not what you would expect from a car like that.

    It does `need` a remap and the brakes are no more than adequate.

    IMO you need the 200ps version or the ED30/Pirelli. I view the other versions as `waterered down` imitations, not proper Gtis.


    Ive had 2 and would have another one anyday.

    Never drove an A3 20TFSI but wanted one for a while, cant see it being that different to the Golf it shares so much with?

    Personally I think the A3 20TFSI in the right colour and S-line spec is a lovely thing and look better than the Golf. And you have the luxury of having a quattro to choose from.

    Get either and youve got a great car.

    Im not a derv fan so wont bother with my own blinkered view


    cheers
    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    yeah but there basicaly there same car so performance will be the same and handeling from stock .... just petrol is slightly faster .... aside from the seventeen year old loving them figures lol its faster period wish i was seventeen again.....
    Again its not as simple as that but never mind!
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
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    guess yours is a diesel and you trying to say there better performance than 2tfsi lol... ive bin in both 170 diesel and 2tfsi petrol and killed them both so understand both cars thats why i chose 2tfsi if i thought the 170 was better performance and didnt sound like a tracter id a chose that its that simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Again its not as simple as that but never mind!

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    No not trying to say its better performance. I said I think it would be with it in most situations APART from 0-60. The way it performs once on the move is a different story to its 0-60 time.

    I'm not blinkered though so I'd be happy to be proved wrong, I'm not one of these people that thinks their car is unbeatable!
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
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    yeah true ...... i didnt feel much difference i just hated the damn sound until that is gone il never own a diesel and the way diesel is goin up in price youl be better of petrol soon... my car is soooo beatable but the over all package is great i really want s3 sportback for looks and more power may have to take the plunge in a couple o years when prices drop a little

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    No not trying to say its better performance. I said I think it would be with it in most situations APART from 0-60. The way it performs once on the move is a different story to its 0-60 time.

    I'm not blinkered though so I'd be happy to be proved wrong, I'm not one of these people that thinks their car is unbeatable!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    yeah but there basicaly there same car so performance will be the same and handeling from stock .... just petrol is slightly faster .... aside from the seventeen year old loving them figures lol its faster period wish i was seventeen again.....
    They do not have the same performance..
    The gearing is different, the torque delivery is very different etc.
    Although similar cars, petrols and diesels drive very differently...and it's swings and roundabouts.

    Mid range in gear the petrol is not only not 'slightly faster', but considerably slower.

    Hit the rev limiter in every gear and the petrol is faster.
    Use high gears and drive more leisurely, and the diesel is much faster and more flexible.
    Not everyone likes revving a petrol.
    Not everyong likes short shifting and wafting along on a wave of torque...

    Te OP would need to drive both, then decide.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    and looks so much better than a golf definatly turns more heads id go 2tfsi any day remap and 19s you wont be dissapointed
    That's very subjective...
    Personally, I find the A3s styling bland in all versions...same with the Golf in all except GTI trip (the R32 is just a bling chariot too)

    So on the subjective issue of looks...the GTI stands head and shoulders above an A3 in the looks dept, in my view.

    When you see an A3, you have to look hard to see what it is...subtle, which can be a good thing. But too much so perhaps?
    With the GTI Golf, you know, instantly. But that can be a bad thing for some.


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    I personally love the way the GTI looks but the rest of the golf range i think look quite average and would much prefer an S-Line,

    apart from the S3 i dont think any of the A3's look better than the GTI - again completely subjective.

    as for the power delivery - have just come from a 172 cup which was mapped so it revs just short of 8k, i do enjoy reving through a petrol more than mid range power from a diesel - i think i would probably enjoy the diesel for a while but the petrol would keep me more entertained for longer!!

    also if im only doing around 11k miles a year dont know if i would notice a huge saving having the 170 over the GTI?

    i guess if i was doing 30kish then a Diesel would be an absolute must. for me this is a car that is going to last me hopefully around 4-5 years so want to get the most enjoyment out of whatever i would choose,

    when first deciding to go for the diesel A3 i was pretty excited, but after doing some sums and actually thinking which one would i be thrilled to get behind the wheel in, well the GTI wins that for me.

    Used to have a MK2 GTI 16v, great car, although shocking handling and brakes were a liability... the 172 cup has been good too, great pace for money but french build quality and a complete lack of extra's has led me to get a bit tired of it, combined with the back breaking ride and its got to be the GTI

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    i have drove both liked petrol better on driving and just hate the sound of diesels id find it hard to pay 17 bags for something to sound so horrible i like the bassy petrol sound and would rather pay the extra fuel costs ....on the gti issue i have to agree with you on performance handling but not on looks maybe standard audi a3 and modded golf yeah but an customized a3 lowered 19s subtle mods looks whey better than a golf so much more style but i do love the r32 twin exhausts lol

    Te OP would need to drive both, then decide.[/quote]
    Last edited by 10blazin; 1st March 2009 at 12:04.

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
    I personally love the way the GTI looks but the rest of the golf range i think look quite average
    I would agree with this, the only thing that lets the golf down is the interior compared to the A3, bit disappointing. They do look good though!
    "I don't sweat because I use Lynx Africa"

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    ....on the gti issue i have to agree with you on performance handling but not on looks maybe standard audi a3 and modded golf yeah but an customized a3 lowered 19s subtle mods looks whey better than a golf so much more style
    But if lowering and changing the wheels is happening, you have to compare to a lowered GTI with different wheels, surely?

    Although, I'd not fit 19" wheels to a GTI as it buggers up the handling, in my view. 18" Max.


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  32. #31
    evapor8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmohide View Post
    I would agree with this, the only thing that lets the golf down is the interior compared to the A3, bit disappointing. They do look good though!
    That would be the reason I chose the A3 over the Golf. Aside from the R32 with its buckets, I thought the Golf interior was pretty naff.

    A3 interior (particularly S-Line models) appears to be a much higher quality finish.

    Have to say I preferred the shape of the mk4 Golf as well.

    Chris
    Car: Phantom Black A3 2.0 TFSI S-Line BLACK EDITION, 3-door, manual

  33. #32
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    strange lots of people saying the golf is better so why do all of you not have one then?

    my Personal opinion is becuase the look boring even in GTI form! (Excluding R32). Give me an S-line any day!

    I love my 170TDI Quattro S-line 4th/5th/6th give great acceleration without screwing the nuts of a petrol ---- but thats my taste.

    your best bet is to try both of the 2.0TFSi and 2.0 TDI 170. i have never driven the 2.0 petrol version, but it sounds like they give total diferent delivery of power but similar performance. Try taking them both for a 20+ mile drive on all types of roads.

  34. #33
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    We have a Mk 5 Golf and an A3, in my opinion the Golf interior is very low rent compared to the A3.
    Sportback

  35. #34
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    The Golf does not have a bad interior.

    Its just no as good as an AUDI.

    But not many cars are.
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  36. #35
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    id love an r32 probably with 18s max as ess three says but golf ain't a patch style wise with them big daft back lights although i saw the new golf today very nice back lights are a miracle compared to a 5 but the reason why a3 are more expensive period is the styling and looks that's why Audi is running the show its not rocket science to see why you pay more money for an a3 its like trying to argue Pepsi is better than coke lol ive been in gti s and r32s there pretty frightening performance wise but style reigns supreme ..... that's why you pay more for a3 and the four rings period

    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    They do not have the same performance..
    The gearing is different, the torque delivery is very different etc.
    Although similar cars, petrols and diesels drive very differently...and it's swings and roundabouts.

    Mid range in gear the petrol is not only not 'slightly faster', but considerably slower.

    Hit the rev limiter in every gear and the petrol is faster.
    Use high gears and drive more leisurely, and the diesel is much faster and more flexible.
    Not everyone likes revving a petrol.
    Not everyong likes short shifting and wafting along on a wave of torque...

    Te OP would need to drive both, then decide.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    The Golf does not have a bad interior.

    Its just no as good as an AUDI.

    But not many cars are.

  37. #36
    V6Pete's Avatar
    Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    its like trying to argue Pepsi is better than coke
    Pepsi could kick cokes ass
    A3 3.2 V6 S-Line | Brilliant Black | Full Votex Kit | 18" Cades Bern / 19" Bentley 5 Spokes in flat grey with 215/35 Falkens | Custom Code Remap
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  38. #37
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    hahaha lol cant f*&k with cherry coke though theeee best fizzy drink ever

    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    Pepsi could kick cokes ass

  39. #38
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    Now running on Bentley's y'all

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10blazin View Post
    hahaha lol cant f*&k with cherry coke though theeee best fizzy drink ever
    Ok cherry coke could kick pepsi's ass, but if it was retro fizzy drink wars then tab clear would f*ck up cherry coke pretty bad.
    A3 3.2 V6 S-Line | Brilliant Black | Full Votex Kit | 18" Cades Bern / 19" Bentley 5 Spokes in flat grey with 215/35 Falkens | Custom Code Remap
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  40. #39
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    thats boooolaaaax lol im toasted tonight so you win lol but not true we gotta do a poll best fizzy

    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    Ok cherry coke could kick pepsi's ass, but if it was retro fizzy drink wars then tab clear would f*ck up cherry coke pretty bad.

  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    The Golf does not have a bad interior.

    Its just no as good as an AUDI.

    But not many cars are.
    Spot on.
    Not as impressive looking, not got the same nice details and finishing touches, slightly better plastics etc...but it's got the basics right, seats are supportive and comfortable, everything where you'd want it to be etc.

    Exactly as Paul says...not bad.
    But with audi interiors being, in my opition, the best out there...not as impressive.


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