Just driven an RS4..... Bit slow arn't they?

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WiZBiT said:
Do you think that's why they came down so hard on him? For not playing ball and giving the other chap up? Gistapo :(
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This country's legal system has become a f*king joke of late - two pretty ordinary guys can have a blat down a visibly clear road (with good visibility), and they can be demonised and punished more extremely by our legal system than: thieves / murderers / sexual offenders / fraudsters [take your pick] who have committed significant crimes (inc. repeat) where there are REAL victims left in the wayside as opposed to potential ones.

I don't condone what they have done, but in the grand scheme of things we have two people who have very cherished assets running them down a strip of tarmac which they are amply paying to use, paying tax of the fuel they use, and bearing pretty much their own risks. There aren't any public places or schools running roadside (or parked vehicles etc...) Now whist this doesn't make it right, is it any worse that letting serious offenders back into the community early for instance?

Our legal system is fecked. The harder you pay/the more law abiding you generally are, the more they f@ck you if you step over the line once (even for a non consequential activity). MORNING RANT OVER!!!

And I'd still take the RS4 over the 'faster' Golf even though it was damn quick (almost nitrously quick)
 
Matt said:
Yes I remember that aswell. Wasn't it the moderator with the yellow 911 (Glen?) that was up for it too?
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We were there - ChriS3 and I...all weekend, up the Sprint...
Despite the long drive...
I was on the receiving end of an average beating by the RS4...

No GTIs or S3s came to play though.
 
warrencox said:
This country's legal system has become a f*king joke of late - two pretty ordinary guys can have a blat down a visibly clear road (with good visibility), and they can be demonised and punished more extremely by our legal system than: thieves / murderers / sexual offenders / fraudsters [take your pick] who have committed significant crimes (inc. repeat) where there are REAL victims left in the wayside as opposed to potential ones.

I don't condone what they have done, but in the grand scheme of things we have two people who have very cherished assets running them down a strip of tarmac which they are amply paying to use, paying tax of the fuel they use, and bearing pretty much their own risks. There aren't any public places or schools running roadside (or parked vehicles etc...) Now whist this doesn't make it right, is it any worse that letting serious offenders back into the community early for instance?

Our legal system is fecked. The harder you pay/the more law abiding you generally are, the more they f@ck you if you step over the line once (even for a non consequential activity). MORNING RANT OVER!!!

And I'd still take the RS4 over the 'faster' Golf even though it was damn quick (almost nitrously quick)
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spot on
 
Ess_Three said:
We were there - ChriS3 and I...all weekend, up the Sprint...
Despite the long drive...
I was on the receiving end of an average beating by the RS4...

No GTIs or S3s came to play though.
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Funny how none turned up, would of been interesting to see the results!

I've been to Santa Pod a couple of times and my journey wasn't as long as yours and its a lot of driving for what it is. Cant be bothered with it anymore
 
warrencox said:
This country's legal system has become a f*king joke of late - two pretty ordinary guys can have a blat down a visibly clear road (with good visibility), and they can be demonised and punished more extremely by our legal system than: thieves / murderers / sexual offenders / fraudsters [take your pick] who have committed significant crimes (inc. repeat) where there are REAL victims left in the wayside as opposed to potential ones.

I don't condone what they have done, but in the grand scheme of things we have two people who have very cherished assets running them down a strip of tarmac which they are amply paying to use, paying tax of the fuel they use, and bearing pretty much their own risks. There aren't any public places or schools running roadside (or parked vehicles etc...) Now whist this doesn't make it right, is it any worse that letting serious offenders back into the community early for instance?

Our legal system is fecked. The harder you pay/the more law abiding you generally are, the more they f@ck you if you step over the line once (even for a non consequential activity). MORNING RANT OVER!!!

And I'd still take the RS4 over the 'faster' Golf even though it was damn quick (almost nitrously quick)
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agree.... illegal or not they weren't really doing anyone any harm
 
i truly hate this country the way its gone,, and the law ,all mps, judges especially,,and lawers selling there soul to the devil to get thses men off need lynching and burning.... time to reclaim millwall style do the lot in and start a new government i say
 
NHN said:
lmao I was only just saying on another thread about this one maybe we should open the old wound to discuss how slow the RS4 is given this golf owned this avant, then it comes up as a new post, lol

http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk...ught-video/article-841287-detail/article.html

Seriously what did that Golf have under the bonnet
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I've read all the other comments below about the law and so on,but you really do have to wonder about the intelligence of someone who not only does what he did there,but then goes and posts it on the internet.

There have been quite a few cases recently where folk have been tracked down thanks to their indiscretions on Youtube/facebook etc...did this guy really think he couldnt be caught?
 
NHN said:
Not by an RS4 on that day obviously :undwech:
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Maybe not by an RS4,and maybe not that day...but the long arm of the law got there in the end.

Round where I live,it's getting to the point where you can almost guarantee getting nabbed if you should be fortunate enough to find a road somewhere that you actually could exceed the limit on.

We have unmarked cars,random speed traps,motorbikes,and of course...the helicopter with number plate recognition and speed camera.

Anyway...thats another story.

The best place for drag races is on a track.
 
Uh oh, mitch with his thumb is out today
 
PaulAr said:
Be amazed if Klausters RS4 can even haul its fat *** down the strip with the extra weight of that plastic wrap.....;)
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hehe dam u! Leave me alone ;)

If I did lose a drag race id blame the wrap obviously :blush:
 
lmao didnt see Paul's comment, sorry Klaus just playing, good to see you take things with pinch of .............
 
there just jelous klauster if you had a tuned s3 and a rs4 both sat there in front of you everyone on this thread would choose the rs4 and anyone who dissagrees is deluded

just a fact of life back o the net

PL_ImAlanPartridge_s1-ep6.jpg
 
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Blazin's a clairvoyant today, reading minds is a new trick for you lol

I think I'd have the S3 tbh, I've had the S4 4.2 which has near same engine & it was slow & heavy, lovely car but for that kinda power/engine I expected alot more, alot especially since I had my S3 at same time & had more fun in that & felt quicker.
 
hahahaha you git i mean the overall car come on fella the rs4 interior with the carbon fibre ,the sound of the v8 engine ,the car more chicks are gona jump in to, the looks , theres no contest ....oh just to add what does modmetractor mean and i want to paint my calipers red do you know the name of the paint
 
lmao, little friday humour, yeah but its not just looks mate but tbh the S4 Avant I had was almost identical inside anyway, all I had to do was change the thin trims for carbon & that was it, oh except for the FBSW, it was a lovely interior, lovely car but didnt pack that punch, got out of s4 into my faithful s3 & seemed quicker & more fun.

I just dont get why some people would hear a car & then say I want one, I mean I dont buy cars based on the sound they make, infact sound doesnt even come into it except when it sounds to loud then I'll say no thanks, I buy for the whole package, look, comfort, tech, feel, driveability & yes I do like a little power & if honest I like the TDI power I have now is fine for time being, cause at end of day it gives me 2-3 times more for my money in fuel economy & spend rest on other **** (on car, lol)

Mod me tractor is cause I currectly own a diesel & many refer to derv cars as tractors, I mod fair bit, hence, plus was bit of fun in beginning cause few thought it said moderator, lol, but wasnt for that reason.
 
haha the wurzels i cant read an i cant wright but i can drive a tractor

Wurzels.jpg


what about the caliper paint pal can you shed any light
 
Well needs to be a metal paint like Hammerite tbh so it lasts, need to clean the calipers up well so it doesnt just peel of after shortwhile, trying to think who I know on here thats done that recently, swear there was a thread of some that had done, was it Kaz or someone??
 
klauster said:
hehe dam u! Leave me alone ;)

If I did lose a drag race id blame the wrap obviously :blush:
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HA! Busted!
Now we know the whole wrap thing was a smokescreen for a fancy Passat on steroids;)

You dont fool us!

Right, Im off to get my Burberry cap and race someone in my chipped up hot hatch...;)

Cheers!
Paul
 
cheers mate il ask kaz aswell you seen my thread about my turbo help us out dude you are the audi guru :anbet:

NHN said:
Well needs to be a metal paint like Hammerite tbh so it lasts, need to clean the calipers up well so it doesnt just peel of after shortwhile, trying to think who I know on here thats done that recently, swear there was a thread of some that had done, was it Kaz or someone??
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So you are comparing a highly tuned S3 to a stock RS4 and calling it slow?

First of all most NA cars 'feel' slow compared to turbo units because you don't get that kick in the back. It's just a very different power delivery.

Secondly I don't care what you say... boosting a small engine is never going to give you the drive ability that a powerful NA engine gives you...

RS4 > S3 simple.
 
dogzilla said:
So you are comparing a highly tuned S3 to a stock RS4 and calling it slow?

First of all most NA cars 'feel' slow compared to turbo units because you don't get that kick in the back. It's just a very different power delivery.

Secondly I don't care what you say... boosting a small engine is never going to give you the drive ability that a powerful NA engine gives you...

RS4 > S3 simple.
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Without wishing to sound controversial - what does this bit actually mean ?
In what way is a modified S3 "undriveable" - or at least not as "driveable" as an RS4 ?
 
10blazin said:
cheers mate il ask kaz aswell you seen my thread about my turbo help us out dude you are the audi guru :anbet:
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1st I'm certainly no audi guru thats for sure, thanks for the compliment but I cant accept that title at all, there's alot of knowledgable people on this site & some alot more than me, its just things I know from doing, engine wise I'm far from slick, its nice to know some people think I have some good knowledge though, but seriously I dont want that label.

Whats this about your turbo, ah just found link, I'll have a read.
 
dogzilla said:
Secondly I don't care what you say... boosting a small engine is never going to give you the drive ability that a powerful NA engine gives you...
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Someone better ring AUDI and tell them.

They have just dropped the V8 from the old RS4 in favour for a `boosted` V6 in the new one.

And BMW are dropping the V10 in the M5 for a `smaller` `boosted` engine.

As far as `drive ability`goes, Ive owned small cars with big engines AND small cars with smaller forced induction so pretty well placed to comment.

Yes power delivery is indeed different but one wasnt `better` to drive than the other.
Just different.
And Im a fan of both solutions and a huge fan of the RS4 so not particularly biased neither.

cheers
Paul
 
Iggu said:
Without wishing to sound controversial - what does this bit actually mean ?
In what way is a modified S3 "undriveable" - or at least not as "driveable" as an RS4 ?
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If referring to throttle response, throttle adjustability and linearity...it's a fair comment.

Big NA engines are much more linear in general...50% throttle = 50% power/torque. Lift off...get less, back on the power, back to 50%

With a small turbo'd engine, lift off, it's all gone. Back on you get some lag, then a slug of torque...not linear and not easy to make small adjustments when trying to trim the line using the throttle.

Very few turbo engines behave like NA engines in that respect.

That great slug of torque may well be fun...but it's not my preferred option..I would take the NA linearity every time...so in that respect i'd agree that a big power S3 isn't as 'adjustable' as an RS4....and hence, if that's your driving style, as drivable.
 
Ess_Three said:
If referring to throttle response, throttle adjustability and linearity...it's a fair comment.

Big NA engines are much more linear in general...50% throttle = 50% power/torque. Lift off...get less, back on the power, back to 50%

With a small turbo'd engine, lift off, it's all gone. Back on you get some lag, then a slug of torque...not linear and not easy to make small adjustments when trying to trim the line using the throttle.

Very few turbo engines behave like NA engines in that respect.

That great slug of torque may well be fun...but it's not my preferred option..I would take the NA linearity every time...so in that respect i'd agree that a big power S3 isn't as 'adjustable' as an RS4....and hence, if that's your driving style, as drivable.
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I know in general terms this is true (and if you were comparing an Escort Cosworth with an RS4 I would agree) but is the KO4 the kind of turbo to create lag and a slug of torque ? I'm not sure.
I bought this after two V6 motors (Corrado and 3.2 DSG Audi) and this feels just as linear - I also have three Rolling Road printouts which show it to be linear in both power delivery and torque.
I'm not sure the old debate about lag and torque slugs applies to modern lightweight turbochargers to the same degree.
This is why I questioned the driveability point - they are as linear as each other in the real world.
 
my S3 had lag, have they sorted that out on the newer facelift?
 
Iggu said:
I'm not sure the old debate about lag and torque slugs applies to modern lightweight turbochargers to the same degree.
This is why I questioned the driveability point - they are as linear as each other in the real world.
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Every forced induction car I've ever driven has suffered to some degree.

Go drive a light (internal, not external) big capacity NA engine and see what throttle response is all about...the V(R)6 does not apply as it's a big fat lazy revving beast, in my book...and needs serious work to get it to rev really sweetly - although it's better as a 3.2 than the earlier 2.8 and 2.9 12v versions.

In my experience, small capacity (sub 2 litre) turbo'd engines have lag...maybe not much, and maybe not a huge slug of torque - although since the original thread was comparing a re-mapped K-04 S3 and an RS4 this IS the case - but they do not feel as linear as a NA engine.

And no matter which way you dress it up...on-off throttle adjustments to trim the line when cornering cannot be achieved as tidily in a turbo'd car, when compared to a big capacity free revving NA engine....so I just don't see tham as being as linear.

Maybe a dyno plot shows them to be similar...but a dyno plot doesn't take account of on-off throttle like driving them hard on the track/road does.
 
Iggu said:
I know in general terms this is true (and if you were comparing an Escort Cosworth with an RS4 I would agree) but is the KO4 the kind of turbo to create lag and a slug of torque ? I'm not sure.
I bought this after two V6 motors (Corrado and 3.2 DSG Audi) and this feels just as linear - I also have three Rolling Road printouts which show it to be linear in both power delivery and torque.
I'm not sure the old debate about lag and torque slugs applies to modern lightweight turbochargers to the same degree.
This is why I questioned the driveability point - they are as linear as each other in the real world.
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I don't think there's any doubt that the S3 has a bit of lag,and does need to be kept in the boost range to avoid that,although it's certainly not awful.
The lag does increase a bit as you up the power,as you'd expect,but it's not in the league that I had with a 440bhp Sierra,where you really did need to be careful to keep the engine in the power/torque band when going fast.

The Escort also had significant lag,especially if you had the T3 turbo as opposed to the smaller T25,and having been a GpN version mine had a different arrangement with ALS and almost no lag,but horrendous fuel consumption.

A good N/A engine almost always feels more immediate than a turbo,although improvements in turbo design and engine management have made a lot of difference over the last few years.
 
But in real world day to day driving does this matter?

We are talking about `trimming the line` and `adjustabilty`.
Yes these are the sort of things that matter to soe drivers on a track and competative driving.
But as long as the car gets from point to point swiftly and safely and you have a laugh doing it then IMO the box is ticked.

And if you want a car that has pin sharp dynamics and gives optimum adjustabilty etc... then I reckon the S3 is the wrong car anyway.
(R26 R anyone? - remember its a Turbo too!)

I find the surge and delivery of a turbo car very addictive, (and worth the slight trade off in dynamics if any), and the sense of it being faster than it probably is.
How can that be a bad thing?

Lets also not forgot that these marginal differences matter not to most judging by the sales success and popularity of small engined forced induction cars.
Whether we like it or not it looks like the future.

cheers
Paul
 
I find the S3 a bit laggy at times, but whether this issue sits firmly with the K04, or more to do with an issue of under-fuelling as so far I've been too tight to invest in the APR pump is yet to be found out. I did contact JBS about the Autotech internals but have never heard back.

The K04 on the 2.0TFSi is far more linear than the 210/225 1.8T's AUQ's, and when I had Revo stage 2 put on my Leon Cupra R I asked Revo to recalibrate more power across the pedal rather than dumping it in in one great lump as the turbo came on song. In the early days of tuning people wanted the big dollop of torque followed by not much (as it felt powerful), whereas the tuning game has moved on somewhat to try and replicate some of the linearity of NA delivery.

That said, the tubby units are great whilst in the zone, but god forbid you get caught off your guard. As with anything you have to adjust your driving style to suit, and the current Leon TDi touring cars in WTCC prove that they can hold their own against the N/A BMW's.

If only Harry Hill was here to decide which one was best......


harryhill_fight.jpg
 
S3 Rav said:
and so the debait continues....
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The alternative is doing a day's work. So .....

My point was about the "driveability" comment. The implication was that because they do not have turbos a Golf R32 is more "driveable" than an S3 or an M3 more "driveable" than a 335i.
I'd still challenge this comment as I think only a professional racing driver would be good enough to make the distinction.
Maybe I'm just a crap driver or maybe its because I have only owned V6s and not V8s but on the road or the track I could not say that my S3 fel less "driveable" than either of my previous high powered V6s.
 
Iggu said:
The alternative is doing a day's work. So .....

My point was about the "driveability" comment. The implication was that because they do not have turbos a Golf R32 is more "driveable" than an S3 or an M3 more "driveable" than a 335i.
I'd still challenge this comment as I think only a professional racing driver would be good enough to make the distinction.
Maybe I'm just a crap driver or maybe its because I have only owned V6s and not V8s but on the road or the track I could not say that my S3 fel less "driveable" than either of my previous high powered V6s.
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I agree...I don't find my S3 any less "driveable " than either the A3 3.2 or A4 3.0TDi that I've owned,just different in character.

In any case,getting somewhere (short of a track) that you can actually enjoy a good drive these days is becoming more and more difficult.

P.S.....hope you're enjoying the Stage2+
 
warrencox said:
I find the S3 a bit laggy at times, but whether this issue sits firmly with the K04, or more to do with an issue of under-fuelling as so far I've been too tight to invest in the APR pump is yet to be found out. I did contact JBS about the Autotech internals but have never heard back.
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I think the Autotech/APR pumps do make quite a difference to Stage2 or 2+ mods,and for the latter it's essential,and it does smooth out the hesitation you get on full throttle with Stage2.

The lag is still there though,it's just that you don't have a bit of a drop in power to go with it maybe...
 
PaulAr said:
Someone better ring AUDI and tell them.

They have just dropped the V8 from the old RS4 in favour for a `boosted` V6 in the new one.

And BMW are dropping the V10 in the M5 for a `smaller` `boosted` engine.
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Yes I'm aware of this but we are talking about large capacity engines being boosted.... they behave very differently to big boost small engines like the S3.

I've driven the 135i and that is a SUPERB engine in every single way. Yes it's boosted but it's done so in a way that really means you can forget about that and just enjoy driving....

The S3 suffers from lots of lag and I can't imagine what boosting it up to 380 bhp would do to it... must be horrendous because off boost it's probably doing no more than 160bhp... and then WHOOSH.

Lots of people are throwing in the "im driving on the road so it's just fine" argument well frankly if that's the case maybe a seperate forum should be made so that you can chat away at your hearts content about the smoothness, comfort and space that allows you to trundle off to BHS to pickup a new pair of slippers on the weekend because let's face it... we are talking about PERFORMANCE cars here. Regardless of whether we spend 99% of the time abiding by the law and 1% hooning it about on the road or at a track it still matters alot to us otherwise we would be all buying TDI's ....
 
dogzilla said:
Yes I'm aware of this but we are talking about large capacity engines being boosted.... they behave very differently to big boost small engines like the S3.

I've driven the 135i and that is a SUPERB engine in every single way. Yes it's boosted but it's done so in a way that really means you can forget about that and just enjoy driving....

The S3 suffers from lots of lag and I can't imagine what boosting it up to 380 bhp would do to it... must be horrendous because off boost it's probably doing no more than 160bhp... and then WHOOSH.

Lots of people are throwing in the "im driving on the road so it's just fine" argument well frankly if that's the case maybe a seperate forum should be made so that you can chat away at your hearts content about the smoothness, comfort and space that allows you to trundle off to BHS to pickup a new pair of slippers on the weekend because let's face it... we are talking about PERFORMANCE cars here. Regardless of whether we spend 99% of the time abiding by the law and 1% hooning it about on the road or at a track it still matters alot to us otherwise we would be all buying TDI's ....
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IIRC,the 135 uses a twin turbo arrangement allied to the 3.0l engine,which is a very good way of extracting good levels of power and more importantly torque,from the engine without incurring much if any lag.

But....as you say,you do need a larger capacity engine to get the best of of a twin turbo setup.

Agaisnst that is the extra complexity of a twinturbo system,but one assumes reliability won't be a problem.
 
dogzilla said:
Lots of people are throwing in the "im driving on the road so it's just fine" argument ....
Click to expand...

Not me - I'm talking about track use too.
Just as linear as my old 3.2 V6 and 2.9 V6. Just as driveable.
But a lot quicker.
 
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