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  1. #1
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    S3 and Pipercross filters

    Hi....only my second post,so please excuse me if this has already been done to death here.

    I couldn't find many refs to people here using Pipercross filters on S3s so here goes....I'm having my S3 remapped at AMD next week,and also having the filter changed to a Pipercross panel and wondered if any of you had done the same,and what if anything you'd noticed after doing it.

    I know that the CAI kits are the best for airflow,certainly with higher power levels than the Stage 1 Revo and similar,but I don't really want to end up with the sort of noises I was used to on a 380bhp Escort previously,which had a K&N cone filter amongst a few other things.

    Thanks in advance.

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  3. #2
    Highwayman's Avatar
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    I currently have a BMC panel on my S3 with a GIAC remap. I would certainly say that the filter helps to improve the engine's breathing, but not massively so . Worthwhile for the modest outlay, but I will be getting the EVOMS shortly, plus an uprated exhaust, which should unlock much more of the engine's true potential !

    Phil
    Sprint Blue S3 with silver-grey leather/alcantara, RNS-E with BOSE, FBMFSW and a few stealth mods....


  4. #3
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    Spoke to guy who had one on his MK5 GTi with Stage 1 REVO.
    Despite only paying 25 he reckoned it didnt make any difference to the way the car drove or sounded.


    Paul

  5. #4
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    I know that the CAI kits are the best for airflow,certainly with higher power levels than the Stage 1 Revo and similar,but I don't really want to end up with the sort of noises I was used to on a 380bhp Escort previously,which had a K&N cone filter amongst a few other things.

    Thanks in advance.
    Alex, AmD are distributors of Forge CAIs - probably the best intake on the market. See if Shaun can show you one. They make very little noise - I've had K&Ns in the past and they are not in the same category. K&Ns are made to be heard IMO but the Forge, although it does give a different sound to the original filter, is not at all intrusive or lacking in subtlety.
    And they DO make a tangible difference to the way the car drives ...
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Alex, AmD are distributors of Forge CAIs - probably the best intake on the market. See if Shaun can show you one. They make very little noise - I've had K&Ns in the past and they are not in the same category. K&Ns are made to be heard IMO but the Forge, although it does give a different sound to the original filter, is not at all intrusive or lacking in subtlety.
    And they DO make a tangible difference to the way the car drives ...
    If forge is the best on the market, why am l buying a EVOMS. l know you cant answer that , what have l not read ?

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    Iggu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc240969 View Post
    If forge is the best on the market, why am l buying a EVOMS. l know you cant answer that , what have l not read ?
    Dunno mate - why are you buying EVOMS ? Its more a question of what HAVE you read which has led you to buy one ?
    When I was researching mine I found loads of information on Forge, what power it gives, the pros & cons - and it is actually on sale and available.
    I could find no reviews, power graphs or info on EVOMS at all and on top of that I could find nobody who could sell me one (that still seems to be the case if the recent S3-talk group buy is anything to go by !)
    Here are my write ups of the Forge - with power gains for all to see. I've driven it in all conditions, on track and on road - never let me down. Delivers on every drive.
    http://audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=60133
    http://audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=58708
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  8. #7
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    But the general consensus is that panels filters dont give you anyting over and above the oem, right ?

    Paul

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    not the same car but I found a panel filter on my TDCi focus gave around 5bhp
    Gone A3 TDi S Line DSG Bluefined

    Now Seat Leon Cupra about to be Bluefined

  10. #9
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    But the general consensus is that panels filters dont give you anyting over and above the oem, right ?

    Paul
    That's what I understood to be the case mate yes.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  11. #10
    VRStu's Avatar
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    The Forge intake was patterned from an EVOMS intake.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VRStu View Post
    The Forge intake was patterned from an EVOMS intake.
    Really ? That is curious. The design is very different in that one takes air from the engine bay, the other from under the car. Also people have been trying to get hold of Evoms for over 6 months but to no avail - Evoms have been saying that they are "working on the design". JonnyC had a "test" unit back in June - but Forge's intakes were already on sale then. That is very odd if the Evoms was the prototype product.
    Do you know if Evoms had to redesign the original product or something ? Was it flawed ?
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  13. #12
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    Lots of people are put off the Forge because it sits so low down. I know I have had to drive through water high enough to cause it a serious problem in the past and don't trust the water resistant cover you can get for it. I don't doubt it gives good gains as it must be cooler down there but i'm going for the evoms
    Phantom Black B7 S4 + Milltek

  14. #13
    jamiekip
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    That's my issue with the forge too - not happy about it taking air from so low down. At elast with the EVOM's or dibilas there are no concerns with water getting in the system.
    I'm sure the Forge would be fine, but it's not a risk I want to take.
    I think the EVOMs does have numebrs about it - perhaps ask Jonny what test were conducted on his car with it as he was getting good figures on his old S3 with just GIAC, exhaust and Evoms.

    I mean, in all honesty they all serve the same purpose and deliver similar gains (and theres no doubting the punch Iggus' car is kicking out!) so it's personal preference and I personally feel happier with the EVOMs design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiekip View Post
    I mean, in all honesty they all serve the same purpose and deliver similar gains (and theres no doubting the punch Iggus' car is kicking out!) so it's personal preference and I personally feel happier with the EVOMs design.
    Very sensible - spot on here Jamie. There's a bit of good natured banter about which products are best (Revo v GIAC, Forge v Evoms, etc.) but none of us are really Michael Schumacher enough to tell the difference let's face it.
    Its all good kit.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  16. #15
    jamiekip
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    If it drives better and your smiling that's the end goal isn't it!

    But clearly everyone thinks their car is better yeah.
    So GIAC and EVOMs all the way!!

    Just kidding lol!

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    Iggu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiekip View Post
    If it drives better and your smiling that's the end goal isn't it!

    But clearly everyone thinks their car is better yeah.
    So GIAC and EVOMs all the way!!

    Just kidding lol!


    To get back on topic though - the panel filters / carbonios of this world will make jack all difference. That seems to be pretty much agreed upon by everybody.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  18. #17
    jamiekip
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    Yeah, sorry - I had the Carbonio and BMC panel on mine, and it did feel like it gave a bit more mid range response, but nothing else. Interestingly I sold my carbonio and I feel like I have MORE torque around 3000rpm now.... though could simply be my imagination
    Either way, looking forward to getting the EVOMs on and the exhaust in the new year

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiekip View Post
    Yeah, sorry - I had the Carbonio and BMC panel on mine, and it did feel like it gave a bit more mid range response, but nothing else. Interestingly I sold my carbonio and I feel like I have MORE torque around 3000rpm now.... though could simply be my imagination
    Either way, looking forward to getting the EVOMs on and the exhaust in the new year
    Hey Jamie - with all the extra mods you have planned you need to change your "with all the toys I need" sig !
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  20. #19
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Alex, AmD are distributors of Forge CAIs - probably the best intake on the market. See if Shaun can show you one. They make very little noise - I've had K&Ns in the past and they are not in the same category. K&Ns are made to be heard IMO but the Forge, although it does give a different sound to the original filter, is not at all intrusive or lacking in subtlety.
    And they DO make a tangible difference to the way the car drives ...
    Iggu...thanks again(and to everyone else who's replied).

    I'll get Shaun to show me one if he has one around.
    I'd be concerned about water if that is an issue with it being sited low,as we often get good amounts of standing water round here.

    I do agree that K&N are loud even for cone filters,as I had a Pipercross cone feeding my Sierra which ran about 2.5bar boost with 440bhp,and a K&N on the Escort with about 380bhp.....the K&N was definitely a noisier intake,but then the entire car was loud!

    Roll on Tuesday.

  21. #20
    VRStu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Really ? That is curious. The design is very different in that one takes air from the engine bay, the other from under the car. Also people have been trying to get hold of Evoms for over 6 months but to no avail - Evoms have been saying that they are "working on the design". JonnyC had a "test" unit back in June - but Forge's intakes were already on sale then. That is very odd if the Evoms was the prototype product.
    Do you know if Evoms had to redesign the original product or something ? Was it flawed ?
    Yes a good friend of mine was at Forge having a Twintercoler fitted. We'd already imported some of the very first EVOMS from the UK and they were quite unheard of here at the time so it wasn't a surprise when he went out to his car to find some measurements being taken

    In truth no reason why not to see what else is on the market and see if you can improve on it. I think the Forge is similar to the Nuespeed with extension pipe.

    I think EVOMS did do a redesign at some stage and I think the current hold up is now the K04 variant of it.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRStu View Post
    Yes a good friend of mine was at Forge having a Twintercoler fitted. We'd already imported some of the very first EVOMS from the UK and they were quite unheard of here at the time so it wasn't a surprise when he went out to his car to find some measurements being taken

    In truth no reason why not to see what else is on the market and see if you can improve on it. I think the Forge is similar to the Nuespeed with extension pipe.

    I think EVOMS did do a redesign at some stage and I think the current hold up is now the K04 variant of it.
    Interesting stuff that. I guess as long as you don't breach a patent of any kind there's nothing stopping you nicking measurements etc. Out of genuine interest - how long ago was this ?
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  23. #22
    VRStu's Avatar
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    Wow now you're talking, I'd say we got them some time in early 07 but I can't remember when the car was at Forge. It turned out to be a bit of a fiasco because they cut through the pipe on the aircon heat exchanger and lost all the gas.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  24. #23
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Does anyone have any experience of the CarbonSpeed CAI?

    http://www.carbonspeed.co.uk/product_cs100.asp

    Just another to add to my list although I do appreciate the Forge is going to be the best overall.

  25. #24
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    Looks like a replica Carbonio to me.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRStu View Post
    Looks like a replica Carbonio to me.
    And me. Waste of time mate. You really need a Cold Air Intake to make any investment worthwhile. Which means Forge, Evoms (when available) or Neuspeed as far as I am aware.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  27. #26
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    VF also make a CAI, seems to have quite a small filter though the rest of it is nicely made.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  28. #27
    On Boost

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    Panel filters do very slightly improve the cars responsiveness and a touch more noise = are they worth 40? , maybe when you weigh up that a papper one will cost you the best part of 20 ( as they will last a lot longer if maintained )

    Carbonio = alot of money for not a lot of gain ( see above ) cost in the region of 150!!!!

    Intake > 250 , good gains ( roughly 10bhp ) , but you have to loose the engine cover = when the cars out of warrenty for me.

    p

  29. #28
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    When I ran my Evoms I bought a used engine cover and modified it to fit. I don't like the aftermarket options that are available.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  30. #29
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Worth pointing out though that the engine cover could be put back on in about 15 mins. It literally just lifts off - no parts are broken when you take it off or anything.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Worth pointing out though that the engine cover could be put back on in about 15 mins. It literally just lifts off - no parts are broken when you take it off or anything.
    So it doesnt need modifying ?

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    ^^^^It does if you want the cover on AS WELL as the intake

    p

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    Quote Originally Posted by dc240969 View Post
    So it doesnt need modifying ?
    No I meant for Phantom who is worried about warranty etc. - you can just whack on the engine cover and your old intake and the dealers will never know any different.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  34. #33
    VRStu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    you can just whack on the engine cover and your old intake and the dealers will never know any different.


    Did you fit yours yourself or have somone else do it??
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRStu View Post
    Did you fit yours yourself or have somone else do it??
    No I did it - and I know why you're asking !
    It is admittedly a pig of a job to fit the Forge (or Evoms) because getting to the bracket where the intake connects to the turbo is nigh on impossible.
    But the engine cover is easily swappable and if a warranty claim depended on it I'd definitely spend the 2 hours needed to get the Forge off and the original intake on.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  36. #35
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    I guessed as much

    Yeah it isn't a major job but it's not the sort of job you'd want to do by the roadside after breaking down and before the RAC arrive.

    I would recommend using a tool such as this to reach the hose clip on the top of the turbo -

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLEXIBLE-HOSE-...1%7C240%3A1318

    That's what I use, it's also useful for removing the similar clip on the intake pipe to the engine cover.

    If you have EVOMS and you have the heatshield (which you ought to) then you'll also need a deep socket to remove and refit the engine cover mountings which are used to secure the heatshield.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  37. #36
    S3 Big Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    Does anyone have any experience of the CarbonSpeed CAI?

    http://www.carbonspeed.co.uk/product_cs100.asp

    Just another to add to my list although I do appreciate the Forge is going to be the best overall.
    I used to have one good little mod, still have it if you want to make a donation!
    Phantom Black, Revo, 450+ BHP , Milltek Evom's, Autotech fuel pump, RS4 brakes 18" Pro Race 1.2 team Dynamics, H&R ARB's, Bilstein PSS10's, Forge Twintercooler, GT3071R, RS4 Injectors, Helix racing clutch, Custom downpipe de-catted straight pipe to back box, 12.6second 1/4 mile! 4.03 sec's 0-60 This isnt just any car, this, THIS WAS the Stealth Beast!!
    Gone but not forgotten
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    http://www.andyoram.co.uk





 

 

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