Volks AutosJMB Retrofits
Results 1 to 37 of 37
  1. #1
    jonnyc's Avatar
    4th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    846

    Haldex Gen 2 upgrade on (8P) S3???

    Hey

    Just wandering if anyone on here has any experience of the Haldex Gen 2 upgrade fitted to a new S3..

    I was under the impression that the S3 has a slightly different Haldex unit to the other Quattro A3's so this is specifically a question for anyone that has it fitted to an S3..

    How much difference does it really make to the handling?

    I have heard that it really brings the car to life, so any feedback would be great!

    Thanks

    Jonny
    MK5 ED30.. Fastest MK5 / 2.0T FSI in the UK - Fastest DSG MK5 in the world!

    12.601 @ 115.85 MPH

  2. # ADS
    ADS
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many
     
  3. #2
    Rabbit222's Avatar
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    669
    Been wanting to ask this for a while now...it seems that all that it does is control the wheel bias. Send more power to the rear wheels or more to the front...if that makes any sense. Its pretty expensive too!
    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

  4. #3
    4th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    850
    The haldex unit is the same as other A3s the S3 gets nothing special. Although someone did post that the new facelift A/S3s have a revised haldex unit.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  5. #4
    wolfbane1967's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    229
    A friend of mine has it on his R32-07.

    You can feel it more if you drive active on a race track,it doesent understear so much.Mabe moore for those who drive the car on race tracks often.
    Audi RS3 2012, Black, Black optik, Recaro, Satnav

  6. #5
    mitch78's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    noun: a particular place or position
    Posts
    2,723
    Last edited by mitch78; 19th March 2009 at 22:52. Reason: Added link and price
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

  7. #6
    jamiekip
    Guest
    Hmmmm sounds pretty good to me!

  8. #7
    DeckedS3's Avatar
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    551
    I had this on my R32, mine was a gen 1 haldex.
    It basically gives you a little more confidence round the twisties. It doesn't turn it into RWD monster or anything like that.
    It seems to kick in sooner and remain engaged under hard acceleration, particularly when it's wet. I'd expect the gen 2 to be very similar.

    Meteor S3, APR Stage 3, APR HPFP, Milltek TBE, LOBA/Sach's Clutch, Bilstein PSS10's, H&R ARB, Gen4 Haldex PP, EVOM's DV & CAI, Forge TB with Pro-Alloy IC, BBS CK 19" My S3

  9. #8
    On Boost

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,756
    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78 View Post

    700 isn't cheap, but if I had it spare I'd have one straight away
    Yep i priced them up today, 650 to the door or 708 fitted was the best i found.

    I really want one , but i think it's maybe 200 over priced , but the price is the price.

    I think i will get one though.

    p

  10. #9
    Reverse Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    11
    A lot of the marketing info states that the revised controller helps with off the line acceleration , I wonder if it really does ... does it take away the nasty pre-load to the rear Diff ??

  11. #10
    aiculedtzu's Avatar
    under pressure

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Romania
    Posts
    208
    As far as i know the Haldex Gen2 unit is the same for 8P A3/S3, but the S3 has different settings (software).

    This is the reason why i didn't buy one yet. I'll wait for someone with an 8P S3 to give a proper review so that i won't be a guinea pig, again
    Audi S3 2.0 TFSI quattro - Turbo-Back exhaust - Cold Air Intake - Uprated Fuel Pump - Upgraded Clutch - Upgraded Intercooler - Stage2+ Software

  12. #11
    4th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    850
    Quote Originally Posted by aiculedtzu View Post
    As far as i know the Haldex Gen2 unit is the same for 8P A3/S3, but the S3 has different settings (software).
    The software is the same as is the haldex unit. Theres no mention anywhere of the S3 having different software apart from S3 owners on various forums. It doesnt need better software from the factory anyway because it acts more agressively in the S3 anyway due to the higher power.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  13. #12
    DeckedS3's Avatar
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by Dandle View Post
    The software is the same as is the haldex unit. Theres no mention anywhere of the S3 having different software apart from S3 owners on various forums. It doesnt need better software from the factory anyway because it acts more agressively in the S3 anyway due to the higher power.
    It's not software (well it's not on the gen 1)
    With the upgraded units there are slightly different sized "holes" that oil is squeezed into, similar to hydrolics IIRC.
    Forgive me if the gen 2 is different!

    Meteor S3, APR Stage 3, APR HPFP, Milltek TBE, LOBA/Sach's Clutch, Bilstein PSS10's, H&R ARB, Gen4 Haldex PP, EVOM's DV & CAI, Forge TB with Pro-Alloy IC, BBS CK 19" My S3

  14. #13
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    108
    I have the Gen 2 on my 8P S3.
    Installed it about 9 months ago.

    I bought the Gen II Unit and the control cables with a switch that allows you to change between 3 settings: Normal, Sport and Race.

    The big difference is not how much torque it send to the rear wheels given that even the standard unit, under some circumstances, can give a full lock splitting torque 50/50 front/rear. This torque transfer can reach, dynamically (i.e. counting the wheight transfers during aggressive driving), a 100% torque to the rear.

    The REAL difference is when and at what speed the torque transfers are applied. In Race mode the system does not need to feel a slip between front and rear axle to transfer the torque. I acts proactively based on how fast you drop the accelerator.
    On track days you really feel the difference, if you have sway bars and you add the gen II then "understeer" becomes a word you'll never pronounce again.

    I reallydon't know if it makes a difference in normal day driving given that I am too scared of other people and I do not drive aggressively on public roads. But during track days it rocks.

    Tomorrow it will be on race again for a two-day track-day at Misano (Italy).

    If you have any question I will be more than happy to answer.

    Ciao!
    S3 8P + Milltek non-resonated exhaust = Fuel-to-noise converter

  15. #14
    4th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    850
    Quote Originally Posted by DeckedS3 View Post
    It's not software (well it's not on the gen 1)
    With the upgraded units there are slightly different sized "holes" that oil is squeezed into, similar to hydrolics IIRC.
    Forgive me if the gen 2 is different!
    Are you sure about that? The hpp controller is just a control unit which plugs into the haldex unit with plugs. All it does it change the rate at which the unit closes the clutch pack, normally more agressively to transfer more power aft quicker. Generation 1 haldex is exactly that there arent different versions of it it for different cars same as there arent for gen 2(except pre-X which Volvo and others used). To get these units to act more agressively is just a software tweak but haldex dont tweak them for different applications(all the gen 1 units are the same, same as all gen 2 units are) hence HPP having a market.
    Last edited by Dandle; 19th September 2008 at 16:17.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  16. #15
    4th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    850
    Quote Originally Posted by Macs View Post
    I have the Gen 2 on my 8P S3.
    Installed it about 9 months ago.

    I bought the Gen II Unit and the control cables with a switch that allows you to change between 3 settings: Normal, Sport and Race.

    The big difference is not how much torque it send to the rear wheels given that even the standard unit, under some circumstances, can give a full lock splitting torque 50/50 front/rear. This torque transfer can reach, dynamically (i.e. counting the wheight transfers during aggressive driving), a 100% torque to the rear.

    The REAL difference is when and at what speed the torque transfers are applied. In Race mode the system does not need to feel a slip between front and rear axle to transfer the torque. I acts proactively based on how fast you drop the accelerator.
    On track days you really feel the difference, if you have sway bars and you add the gen II then "understeer" becomes a word you'll never pronounce again.

    I reallydon't know if it makes a difference in normal day driving given that I am too scared of other people and I do not drive aggressively on public roads. But during track days it rocks.

    Tomorrow it will be on race again for a two-day track-day at Misano (Italy).

    If you have any question I will be more than happy to answer.

    Ciao!
    Your car came with haldex gen 2. You are talking about the uprated HPP control unit for gen 2 haldex.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  17. #16
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by Dandle View Post
    Your car came with haldex gen 2. You are talking about the uprated HPP control unit for gen 2 haldex.
    Of course I am....

    Hpp gen II. the one with the blue cover...
    S3 8P + Milltek non-resonated exhaust = Fuel-to-noise converter

  18. #17
    DeckedS3's Avatar
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by Dandle View Post
    Are you sure about that? The hpp controller is just a control unit which plugs into the haldex unit with plugs. All it does it change the rate at which the unit closes the clutch pack, normally more agressively to transfer more power aft quicker. Generation 1 haldex is exactly that there arent different versions of it it for different cars same as there arent for gen 2(except pre-X which Volvo and others used). To get these units to act more agressively is just a software tweak but haldex dont tweak them for different applications(all the gen 1 units are the same, same as all gen 2 units are) hence HPP having a market.
    There is a control unit yes. But HPA modified these simply by replacing the oil lines within. No software upgrade on the unit at all. They even had the unit locked on when braking.

    Meteor S3, APR Stage 3, APR HPFP, Milltek TBE, LOBA/Sach's Clutch, Bilstein PSS10's, H&R ARB, Gen4 Haldex PP, EVOM's DV & CAI, Forge TB with Pro-Alloy IC, BBS CK 19" My S3

  19. #18
    DeckedS3's Avatar
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    551
    OK, having a read there must be a tweak but I'm sure I've read on vortex it's the inners that are changed. http://www.hpamotorsports.com/haldex.htm

    Meteor S3, APR Stage 3, APR HPFP, Milltek TBE, LOBA/Sach's Clutch, Bilstein PSS10's, H&R ARB, Gen4 Haldex PP, EVOM's DV & CAI, Forge TB with Pro-Alloy IC, BBS CK 19" My S3

  20. #19
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    171
    even with the upgraded part, torque split is NEVER more than 50% to the rear.
    its just simply impossible. the front is always permanently engaged. the most you can do is also completely engage the rear resulting in 50/50.

  21. #20
    mitch78's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    noun: a particular place or position
    Posts
    2,723
    Last edited by mitch78; 19th March 2009 at 22:51.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

  22. #21
    I cant spell !

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North West
    Posts
    434
    Ok so if you have / fit the haldex Gen 2 unit or the upgraded HPP controller, how does this work with the standard Audi traction control - which in my eyes just wants to cut the power and fight the good work of the haldex.

    Richard
    MY12 Black edition TT Roadster with a tractor engine !

  23. #22
    On Boost

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,756
    The HPP controller is NOT just a software upgrade ( like a remap ) it has upgraded mechanical parts/valves in it also!

    p

  24. #23
    Reverse Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    11
    Question is , does this help with the launch off the line at a drag race. The standard set up just boggs like a sh!t ... it's so unlike the gen 1 system found in the 8L S3 . With launch control , you can get the 8L spinnin all 4 wheels off the line ..with some sideways motion.

  25. #24
    2008 Audi S3

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    197
    Have you mailed Haldex and asked them if it makes a difference? They are normally quite quick on the response.

  26. #25
    2nd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    320
    Was there ever a difinitive answer on this? Is it worth doing on a facelift S3 and if so why?

  27. #26
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by cooni View Post
    even with the upgraded part, torque split is NEVER more than 50% to the rear.
    its just simply impossible. the front is always permanently engaged. the most you can do is also completely engage the rear resulting in 50/50.
    If you look at the system in a STATIC way, what you say is somewhat true (speaking of motion and not torque).

    But DYNAMICALLY, when wheight transfers are involved, you CAN have 100% torque applied to the rear wheels.

    Remember that torque is not "seeing the wheel spinning"...

    Quote Originally Posted by nicks3 View Post
    Was there ever a difinitive answer on this? Is it worth doing on a facelift S3 and if so why?
    You can see my answer some posts ago. For me (and for how I use the car) it is one of the best mods I have made on the car.

    Be aware that on the latest S3 (production from september 2008 on) there is no longer the genII, but what they call the gen IV that is a completely different control unit and in no way is compatible with the HPP for genII.
    As far as I know, Haldex is in the process of producing an HPP for the genIV but it is not yet ready.
    Be sure to double check what Haldex generation you have on your car.
    Last edited by Macs; 22nd July 2009 at 12:04.
    S3 8P + Milltek non-resonated exhaust = Fuel-to-noise converter

  28. #27
    tdisportuk's Avatar
    2nd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    459
    dont want to sound like a complete idiot (even thought i know i will after this question!) lol but what is a haldex?! i tried to wiki it but i didnt really gain anything from it
    Audi A3 2.0 tdi sport..many mods to follow...just too fussy when it comes to making decisions!

  29. #28
    4th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    850
    Quote Originally Posted by Macs View Post
    But DYNAMICALLY, when wheight transfers are involved, you CAN have 100% torque applied to the rear wheels.
    You can only have more torque at the rear if the front isn't making use of it, as power is tapped from the front diff to give to the haldex unit. 100% rear torque transfer is only possible if the front wheels have no grip at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by tdisportuk View Post
    dont want to sound like a complete idiot (even thought i know i will after this question!) lol but what is a haldex?! i tried to wiki it but i didnt really gain anything from it
    Haldex is the company that make the AWD coupling in the A3, it controls and delivers power to the rear wheels.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  30. #29
    tdisportuk's Avatar
    2nd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    459
    oh ok now i understand, nice n simple! thanks dandle
    Audi A3 2.0 tdi sport..many mods to follow...just too fussy when it comes to making decisions!

  31. #30
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Trotters, Peckham
    Posts
    539
    i'm sure this is old news but Gen IV is available

  32. #31
    Reverse Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2
    Are you sure ?

  33. #32
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by PiotrT View Post
    Are you sure ?
    I confirm. The gen IV HPP is available both as a standalone and with the cabled switch.

    Haldex is also working on a remote control to switch between the three modes.
    S3 8P + Milltek non-resonated exhaust = Fuel-to-noise converter

  34. #33
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    42
    I was wondering about this haldex uprgrade and asked a local speedshop about it and said that it might create the similar problems with the 8L upgrade, broken diffs that cant handle increased hp... That's a risk I'm willing to take soon, not interested in gunning it from a standstill for donuts but hopefully it won't budge under hard straight line acceleration, I've already gone through a clutch and a flywheel and had to detune my ecu chipping to be safe, there werent upgraded clutch kits at that time... early 2007. Quiafe have made upgraded front diffs wonder if they'll make for the aft.

  35. #34
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Trotters, Peckham
    Posts
    539
    Quote Originally Posted by S3GG View Post
    I was wondering about this haldex uprgrade and asked a local speedshop about it and said that it might create the similar problems with the 8L upgrade, broken diffs that cant handle increased hp... That's a risk I'm willing to take soon, not interested in gunning it from a standstill for donuts but hopefully it won't budge under hard straight line acceleration, I've already gone through a clutch and a flywheel and had to detune my ecu chipping to be safe, there werent upgraded clutch kits at that time... early 2007. Quiafe have made upgraded front diffs wonder if they'll make for the aft.
    I'll add my 0.02. THe local speedshop is wrong. Call NIK at HPA in Canada. HGP can also be called. Install the correct Haldex model depending on your version. Install the DSG flash and ECU flash all together. The car is a monster after the BIG tune! In addtion, install the HPA motormount as well. Very minimal vibration under 1000 rpm.

  36. #35
    Rabbit222's Avatar
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    669
    I have this unit installed on my vehicle and love it! I normally keep it on Sport and switch the Race mode when I launch hard from the line. My mates will attest to it, I make the rear wheels break traction!
    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

  37. #36
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by tcardio View Post
    I'll add my 0.02. THe local speedshop is wrong. Call NIK at HPA in Canada. HGP can also be called. Install the correct Haldex model depending on your version. Install the DSG flash and ECU flash all together. The car is a monster after the BIG tune! In addtion, install the HPA motormount as well. Very minimal vibration under 1000 rpm.
    Thanks for the motor mount referenceTc gonna check with them, definitely like that upgrade, they make a nice set of brake lines as well, I have the 6 speed manual, I guess the dsg and ecu flash are the software for the system. Gonna look into an upgraded clutch I dont like clunking noise but will deal with extra pedal pressure no prob. gonna check some threads for different choices. Like the idea of spinnin' those rear tires a bit! Asphalt is generally slippery here as well that'll definitely help the tranny... Been told to stick to 18'' s in Greece cause of road quality maybe going to powder coat my stock rims. Got solar orange so i'm between dark bronze, dark silver, or matt black... bbs black ck's with silver lip look nice on a thread I saw though. Was wondering about botticelli iii's but its risky aesthetically and expensive. Here's a little video I made in early 2007 for the Gumball people approaching Athens at the time... intentionally reasonable driving for the purpose of direction sense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1nsokJmZIw

  38. #37
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by S3GG View Post
    Gonna look into an upgraded clutch I dont like clunking noise but will deal with extra pedal pressure no prob. gonna check some threads for different choices.
    Apperently you can install the Sachs performance clutch but reuse a few of the parts from the orginal clutch which will give you the same feel as the original clutch. Something to think about.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO

Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO