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  1. #1
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    170TDI - too much torque for 2wd? Opinions please

    Guys, I need some advice please, especially from 170 owners.

    I'm looking at getting an A3 with the above engine. The salesman mentioned about there being a lot of torque for a 2wd car, especially in the wet. All torque and no action, so to speak!

    So do you owners have any opinions on this?

    Thanks in advance.


    Dave.

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    Hi Dave,

    I think you should be fine, I used to own a Alfa 156 which had a five cylinder 2.4 JTD engine, in standard from pushed out 150 ish bhp and 305 Nm of torque.

    I later modded the car and had over 280 bhp out of her which gave a healthy 560 Nm 413 lb-ft

    The car was front wheel drive and wasn't too bad in the wet, you just have to be aware that the car will be quite happy to spin the wheels on hard acceleration.
    Last edited by base_line; 16th August 2008 at 21:22.

  4. #3
    Staz's Avatar
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    I say if you can afford to get Quattro then do it!
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  5. #4
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    560Nm?? That must have been an awesome beast!!!

  6. #5
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    and therein lies the problem staz1000!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    and therein lies the problem staz1000!!
    Aha, well then you either put up or save up!

    I had quattro on my 2.0TFSI and I'm so glad I did. It's great fun.

    I drove a 140bhp Golf V and it would wheel spin like mad as soon as you tried to put any power down.

    This debate has gone round and round for ever on this forum. Many say it's perfectly ok to put masses of power through a FWD (like the proposed Focus RS) and others say no.

    But with a TDi 170 at least you get a choice.

    You may call me Staz, Sir
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    ErikSpeed's Avatar
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    movie of
    my Golf IV TDI 130 (only front wheel drive )
    remap 180ch 400nm
    = in 3 gear ---> then full gas (in rain)



    this power in quattro =

  9. #8
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    Why thank you Staz!!

    It's always "a few more 's and I can have.....". I started off wanting a Sport, now I'm thinking S-Line with 2k of extras! lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    560Nm?? That must have been an awesome beast!!!
    It was fun

    Best bit about it was the mpg and peoples faces when you'd explain it was a diesel on track days.
    "We're not here for a long time, we're here for a good time!!"

  11. #10
    Staz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    Why thank you Staz!!

    It's always "a few more 's and I can have.....". I started off wanting a Sport, now I'm thinking S-Line with 2k of extras! lol
    lol Well yes I know what you're saying.

    When I was deciding on which car to get I had to choose between Golf Gti, TT 2.0, R32 and A3 Quattro. Very early on I dropped the first 2 simply due to lack of 4WD. The R32 was dropped due to the ease in which I could, and did, chip the A3.

    Which options I got was secondary!
    8P2 S3

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  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    Guys, I need some advice please, especially from 170 owners.

    I'm looking at getting an A3 with the above engine. The salesman mentioned about there being a lot of torque for a 2wd car, especially in the wet. All torque and no action, so to speak!

    So do you owners have any opinions on this?

    Thanks in advance.




    Dave.
    At lot depends on how you drive it. If you floor the accellerator everythime you pull away you may get some wheel spin, especially in the wet. If you drive with a little more skill and progression then there should be no problem and you can get there just as quick! I don't have any problems with my 170 and I can still get away from the lights quicker than most.
    Last edited by h5djr; 16th August 2008 at 22:44.
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  13. #12
    Kris's Avatar
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    The only regret I had after buying a 170TDI was not ordering it with quattro as the saleman talked me out of it. True the power can be feathered in to avoid wheel spin but i found this anoying and limiting. When driven hard mine would spin in low gears in the dry let alone the wet. Great car, loved it but if i were to buy another it would definately be quattro. In comparisson I now have an S3 which with 310bhp when flooring it has no wheel spin in the dry and has to be pushed very hard to get the ESP light flashing in the wet.
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    Well yes it is very easy to spin the wheels in the wet if you just floor it but with a bit of control it's not too bad. Having said that if the quattro didn't have such an impact on CO2 emissions (it's a company car) then I would have gone for quattro.

    That said the 170 in front wheel drive is still an impressive drive - still puts a smile on my face when you have a t**t right up your arse in their suped up Corsa and you floor it at 50-60 - they don't often try again !
    Audi A3 Sportback SE 2.0 TDI 170 - Lava Grey, Rear parking sensors, Symphony II+, Aluminium Trim

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    I get wild wheelspin in the 1st 3 gears if I simply floor it without trying to control it but you could say that about most cars.

    Off roundabouts and through tight corners its just a case of feeding the power in as appropriate. Never found it an issue really.

    Not had a Quattro so not sure how it compares but certainly dont find myself wanting for it. I'd order another without Quattro put it that way.
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
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  16. #15
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    Mine is Blufin'd and handles well in FWD. If money was no object and I wasn't bothered about the increased fuel consumption (which I am, hence buying a diesel), then I would go for the Quattro
    Car History
    "57" Audi A3 2.0tdi 170 S-Line S-Tronic, Phantom Black
    "56" VW Golf 2.0tdi Sport
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    "51" BMW 330d Sport

  17. #16
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    ITs down to how you drive.

    Mines a 140 and if its wet and if i floor it in first gear, it will wheelspin but in the dry, it spins a little bit and off it goes.

    If you be sensible and accelerate moderatly in first and floor it in 2nd, then you should be ok and also, less strain on clutch and other bobs.

    As for the 170, you should be ok as long as you learn how to drive.

    My mates currently got a 1000bhp skyline R32. If you floor it and don't know how to drive it, a 200bhp will eat you but it you master how to get the power down, the ideal time to change gear, minimise wheel spin etc. the 170 would be fine.

    I'm planning on getting mine remmapped soon but my advise, go for the 170.

    Butt...if you can get a quatro, thats a whole new story. The 4WD system does give more of that planted feel and hardly any wheelspin. My mates got a TT 225 and that feels really planted and grippy and even with a remap to 265bhp, it still feels planted.

    My advise, go for the Quattro. But if you can't, then the 170. And if your a broke student like me :D the 140 will do just fine (because its quicker and better that all my mates puntos saxos astars etc. :D )

    Good luck with it all

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    Thanks,

    ASN
    Last edited by marriedblonde; 21st August 2008 at 16:24.
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  18. #17
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    Will your budget stretch to a 140TDi Quattro and a chip instead???

  19. #18
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    Jamie - I like your thinking but quattro is only an option on the 170 now.

    The more I think about this, the more I think I'll be going for the 140. I think the 170 might be too much for my wife without quattro but my budget won't allow that.

    That 170 is soooo very tempting though!

  20. #19
    Matt's Avatar
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    Go for a test drive if you haven't already! I was set on getting a 140, told myself that it would be enough but then I drove a 170.... and bought it!
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
    Now: Mini John Cooper Works

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    Jamie - I like your thinking but quattro is only an option on the 170 now.

    The more I think about this, the more I think I'll be going for the 140. I think the 170 might be too much for my wife without quattro but my budget won't allow that.

    That 170 is soooo very tempting though!
    My wife has no problems at all with my 170 - apart from saying how much better it goes than her 1.4 Polo! I quite often go for a gap in the traffic at a junction or roundabout and she comments about how she would never have attempted it in her Polo. When she does drive mine she drives it quiet quickly and throughly enjoys it, even though her Polo is a manual and my 170 is an S-tronic. If I drive her Polo, I always rember I have to use the clutch to change gear but at the first junction I tend to forget that a manual geabox does not automatically select first gear when you stop!
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Go for a test drive if you haven't already! I was set on getting a 140, told myself that it would be enough but then I drove a 170.... and bought it!
    If you can, it would be worth waiting until you can try one of the new common-rail 170s. The CR-140 is soooo much better than the old 140. I drove one the other day and was pleasantly surpised how much quieter and smoother it seemed.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  23. #22
    Teejay's Avatar
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    Get a 140, then in spring (after the wife's got used to it) get a remap - 185bhp and everyone's happy

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post

    I think I'll be going for the 140. I think the 170 might be too much for my wife without quattro
    Dave,
    My wife uses our Bluefinned 140 which has been RR'd at 192Bhp/306lb every day... come rain, shine or snow she's never had any problems at all mate,

    After all, even my wife has mastered the use of the little right hand pedal, push it a bit to go fast, push it a bit more to go faster and stop pushing when the tyre smoke starts coming through the air vents, job done...

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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    If you can, it would be worth waiting until you can try one of the new common-rail 170s. The CR-140 is soooo much better than the old 140. I drove one the other day and was pleasantly surpised how much quieter and smoother it seemed.


    The difference is amazing. I called in to a dealer on Sunday and they were moving a lot of the cars around and the new CR diesels were so much quieter. To demonstrate, one of the salesmen got me to sit in an A3 2.0TDI cab and you could barely hear the engine in the cabin. Very impressive.

    A customer in a PD diesel pulled onto the car park just after this and it was so noisy in comparison.

  26. #25
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    i don't think quattro is the be all and end all either - yeh fine if you just want to plant your foot and get off wihtout wheelspin, but in some ways perhaps its more fun to get off the line quickly in fwd as this takes far more skill and precision, especially in a turbo car where you have to allow for it coming on boost etc

    I think id rather have fwd and save on all that extra weight because that can't do your mpg much good and sap a load of the power (one reason why it can get it down better - there is less of it!)

  27. #26
    Staz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve184 View Post
    (one reason why it can get it down better - there is less of it!)
    Not that old chestnut! Have you driven both?

    I have driven a golf GTi and an A3 2.0TFSI Quattro. There is no difference in power (that one can feel anyway) and the A3 got off the line far far quicker without any fuss. No contest.
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  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beddie View Post

    After all, even my wife has mastered the use of the little right hand pedal, push it a bit to go fast, push it a bit more to go faster and stop pushing when the tyre smoke starts coming through the air vents, job done...

    LOL.....I missed this post last night!! That really has made me laugh. I bet you woudn't be so brave to say that in front of her though

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    The only regret I had after buying a 170TDI was not ordering it with quattro as the saleman talked me out of it. True the power can be feathered in to avoid wheel spin but i found this anoying and limiting. When driven hard mine would spin in low gears in the dry let alone the wet. Great car, loved it but if i were to buy another it would definately be quattro. In comparisson I now have an S3 which with 310bhp when flooring it has no wheel spin in the dry and has to be pushed very hard to get the ESP light flashing in the wet.

    Totally agree, I feel the same. I have brand new Dunlops on the front and the car wheelspins like f**k, even in 3rd gear in the wet and not much different in the dry. Yes, you can feather the acceleration but it still is hard to get the grip down as you'd like to.

    I'd go for Quattro next time.
    On my 3rd Audi.....my latest PROJECT...... a 2002 A4 1.9TDi Avant Sport.... wrapped matt white with 19" VMR matt black wheels.

  30. #29
    It's all down to the way you drive. I have never suffered any wheel-spin with my 170, wet or dry. Perhaps the S-tronic feeds in the power better!
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  31. #30
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    Dave, S-tronic......don't give me another option....please!

  32. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    Dave, S-tronic......don't give me another option....please!
    Have you tried an S-tronic? Personally I would never buy another A3 without it. Works well with the 170TDI. Definitely worth a test drive and make sure you try it in 'tip-tronic' mode. Adds a whole new level of enjoyment to driving. I'm on my second A3 with S-tronic and it still brings a smile to my face the way it changes gear so smoothly and with no loss of power.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  33. #32
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    You are a bad, bad man.

    In all honesty, I'd quite like S-tronic having driven my dad's Merc which has an auto box but it's just beyond my budget.

  34. #33
    PW-Motorsport's Avatar
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    I had manual one for a few months, back the end of last year, winter salt rain etc.
    Very quick, too much for fwd, quattro would be ideal. Worth the extra price me thinks.
    The torque/power delivery is a bit too focused for 2wd. Maybe the quattro would be cheaper on tyres in the long run?

  35. #34
    Matt's Avatar
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    I'm on the original tyres all round at just over 13,000 miles. Fronts still have at least a couple of thousand left in them
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
    Now: Mini John Cooper Works

  36. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    Why thank you Staz!!

    It's always "a few more 's and I can have.....". I started off wanting a Sport, now I'm thinking S-Line with 2k of extras! lol
    How about a Sport with S-tronic rather than the S-Line!!!
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  37. #36
    marriedblonde's Avatar
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    I ran a 140 that was revo'd. Kept it for 2 years did around 40K miles in it. No problem at all with it being FWD only.

    Wife never had any problems driving it either.

    Quattro's all right I gues had it in my R32, not been back to AWD since, well except the family car ML.

    J.
    Married and blonde yes, but still a guy with a poor taste in usernames!

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  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    How about a Sport with S-tronic rather than the S-Line!!!

    Well, that was a consideration but I prefer the styling of the S-line over the Sport.

    I'm not a fan of the standard wheels on the Sport and the upgraded wheels that I do like are an extra 450 and, to me, that's just 450 closer to the price of the S-line!

  39. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    Well, that was a consideration but I prefer the styling of the S-line over the Sport.

    I'm not a fan of the standard wheels on the Sport and the upgraded wheels that I do like are an extra 450 and, to me, that's just 450 closer to the price of the S-line!
    I agree about the standard sport wheels. Oh decisions decisions!!
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  40. #39
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    Indeed Dave. Nice decision to be making though.

  41. #40
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    I have got a 2.0 TDI 170 S-Tronic S-Line, It is great not to much power in my opinion, In wet if you floor it your gonna get spin but tell me that most cars would not with that power...
    2007 Audi A3 Sportback 2.0 Tdi (170) DPF, S-Line,DSG S-Tronic, Akoyo Silver, 18"Alloys Audi RS4 Design, RNS-E 2007 TMC, Rear Parking Sensors,Bose Sound System,6 CD Changer,Black Leather Sport Seats,Auto Folding Mirrors,Tyre Pressure Sys,+ More....

 

 
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