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  1. #1
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Next Mod: Milltek Exhaust or Fuel Pump ?

    Could some folk out there who are more experienced/knowledgeable than me (ie. anyone) please help ?

    I currently have a SuperChips (bluefin) remap and Forge CAI. Well pleased with the car but am considering my next performance mod - its like an addiction this game !
    Ive read every thread under the sun (so it feels) and am left with a couple of questions:

    • If I fit a Milltek turbo back exhaust will I need to change the fuel pump internals (Autotech) or will the standard H VAG pump which my car has be able to cope with the Intake/Exhaust combo with no problems ?
    • If I already like the SOUND of the OEM exhaust well enough (I do especially together with the Forge induction) would I be better off just getting the fuel pump upgrade and leaving the exhaust as it is ?
    • Would my existing map (which was done before the Forge CAI was fitted) "adapt" to the new intake/exhaust and learn over time and deliver optimum performance or would it need a brand new map ?
    Any advice you can offer would be great.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

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  3. #2
    PaulMc
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    One thing is for sure, if you like the sound of the OEM exhaust, keep the standard back box, but definately replace the cat for a freer flowing one (100/200 cell). Assuming the OEM and aftermarket match up. This is what I did on the My M3 CSL. Greater performance, bit more sound, half the cost .

    While on that note, I cannot believe the price of Supersprint stuff for the S3. More than twice the price of equivalent Milltek products.

  4. #3
    wolfbane1967's Avatar
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    You dont need a fuelpump upgrade on your superchip map,not even if you choose to fit a full Milltek.It doesent adapt that much

    If i was you you, i have had a full milltek fitted,it lowers your turbo temp.Oem is very restrict at the frontpipe
    A45 AMG Performance -14

  5. #4
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    With the fuel pump , you wouldn't get the best out of it unless you had it re-remapped, and too a lesser extent the exhaust.

    If it were me i'd get the exhaust, you will feel some benefit , but you ARE ready for a stage 2 code really.

    Then get the pump put on , and get it re-remapped, all done , unless you want to go big turbo , but thats s

    p

  6. #5
    Rabbit222's Avatar
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    Do the zorst first. If you pick up any low fuel pressure codes after doing the zorst...do the pump upgrade.
    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

  7. #6
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Thanks for this - pretty much what I'd decided. Big turbo kits are out of the question Phantom unless you fancy doing a bank job with me.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit222 View Post
    Do the zorst first. If you pick up any low fuel pressure codes after doing the zorst...do the pump upgrade.
    Would these error codes pop up on the dash as a standard warning light or would I only see them in VAGCOM ? Cheers.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  9. #8
    windsurfer

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    I would fit the Miltek, upgrade the pump and then re-calibrate the map!!

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg View Post
    I would fit the Miltek, upgrade the pump and then re-calibrate the map!!

    Pedro
    Thats right , maybe save up for a while and do the full issue , zorst,pump, and re-remap!

    Should be looking at a nice genuine 340bhp right accross the rev range

    p

  11. #10
    S3 Big Andy's Avatar
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    Full milltek would be, sorry is what I did!! its feckin great!
    Phantom Black, Revo, 450+ BHP , Milltek Evom's, Autotech fuel pump, RS4 brakes 18" Pro Race 1.2 team Dynamics, H&R ARB's, Bilstein PSS10's, Forge Twintercooler, GT3071R, RS4 Injectors, Helix racing clutch, Custom downpipe de-catted straight pipe to back box, 12.6second 1/4 mile! 4.03 sec's 0-60 This isnt just any car, this, THIS WAS the Stealth Beast!!
    Gone but not forgotten
    VCDS GONE TOO
    http://www.andyoram.co.uk





  12. #11
    S3-N's Avatar
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    Phantom Black B7 S4 + Milltek

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3-Nick View Post
    Me also
    RS4 family wagon.....gone but not forgotten

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Would these error codes pop up on the dash as a standard warning light or would I only see them in VAGCOM ? Cheers.
    No it won't...VAGCOM will pick these errors up. As the other guys have mentioned, Zorst first, pump thereafter and stge2 remap.
    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    will the standard H VAG pump which my car has be able to cope with the Intake/Exhaust combo with no problems ?
    What was the outcome of this 'H' pump, is it just as good as the Autotech upgrade? No mention of this in the post yet...



    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMc View Post
    While on that note, I cannot believe the price of Supersprint stuff for the S3. More than twice the price of equivalent Milltek products.
    ...but Supersprint is alot better quality and finish than the Milltek stuff, pay for what you get I suppose.



    I'm leaving my standard exhaust and fitting a sports downpipe and cat, I also like the tone of the standard exhaust... plus its not so noticeable to the dealers then

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxS3uk View Post
    What was the outcome of this 'H' pump, is it just as good as the Autotech upgrade? No mention of this in the post yet.
    The latest revision of the fuel pump is the 'J' pump. I have the 'H' pump in my car and just upgraded the internals to the Autotech internals. A mate of mine has upgraded from the 'H' pump to the 'J' pump and also upgraded the internals to the Autotech bits. I'm not sure if this was necessary though because the 'J' pump supposedly sorts out the low fuel pressure issues experienced by these 2.0TFSI engines....
    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

  17. #16
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit222 View Post
    The latest revision of the fuel pump is the 'J' pump. I have the 'H' pump in my car and just upgraded the internals to the Autotech internals.
    Did you notice a lot more urge in the mid-range after upgrading to Autotech ? Or is it really just for piece of mind - i.e. knowing that your "H" fuel pump isn't working overtime and running the risk of meltdown ?
    Sure I've read somewhere that up to 40bhp extra in the midrange is acheivable from the fuel pump upgrade ALONE.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  18. #17
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    Just a quick question: Why is the apr pump so much more expensive than the autotech one?

    PS: Also is it easy to install?
    Last edited by Doublemint1984; 5th August 2008 at 07:53. Reason: Forgot smthg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Did you notice a lot more urge in the mid-range after upgrading to Autotech ? Or is it really just for piece of mind - i.e. knowing that your "H" fuel pump isn't working overtime and running the risk of meltdown ?
    Sure I've read somewhere that up to 40bhp extra in the midrange is acheivable from the fuel pump upgrade ALONE.
    I noticed a definite improvement when I just did the upgrade and was running my stock zorst...I'm hoping that REVO releases a fuel pump specific map so that I can utilise this upgrade to its full potential. A mate of mine, thewusman did some data logging and found that he had gained some serious hp after the upgrade...he only has REVO, Forge CAI, Forge DV and the Autotech upgrade.
    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublemint1984 View Post
    Just a quick question: Why is the apr pump so much more expensive than the autotech one?

    PS: Also is it easy to install?
    The APR pump is a complete pump whereas the Autotech upgrade is merely the internals. These internals need to be fitted to your existing fuel pump.
    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

  21. #20
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    So if my pump is still alright you would think the internals would be enough?

    Is it hard to install for a noob?

    Cheers Rabbit

  22. #21
    Rabbit222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublemint1984 View Post
    So if my pump is still alright you would think the internals would be enough?

    Is it hard to install for a noob?

    Cheers Rabbit
    Yeah I reckon mate.

    For installation refer to this pdf

    http://www.autotech.com/instructions/i127100k.pdf

    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

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    Ok...I better get it installed then. lol

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    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

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    Thx for posting that mate.
    Might reconsider it then.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublemint1984 View Post
    Thx for posting that mate.
    Might reconsider it then.
    Don't let that scare you mate I read that and still fitted it Alot of the tuners out there are using the Autotech upgrade....
    2012 RS3 / Daytona Grey / Alu pack / revo3+ / LOBA500P / LOBA CNC Intake pipe / LOBA HPFP / Forge Race FMIC / Milltek resonated exhaust / revo intake system / Devils own WMI / 20" BBS CH-R Titanium / H&R Monotube coilovers / H&R Anti Roll bars / Alu Roof rails / Hybrid RS grille / R8 paddle shifters /

  27. #26
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    Will get the TBE and air intake installed first and then we'll see if i ll go for the pump before chipping it.

  28. #27
    L60N
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    Get the zorst, then fit the pump, then remap to suit. Jobs a gud un.

  29. #28
    jamiekip
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    So how much is this uprated fuel pump?
    I might get this done... if it makes 3rd and 4th gears even stronger I'll have to put plastic covers over my seats... I'm loving my car with the GIAC right now!

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublemint1984 View Post
    Will get the TBE and air intake installed first and then we'll see if i ll go for the pump before chipping it.
    Whichever way you look at it Doublemint the fuel pump route is a risk. I think I'll do the Milltek and maybe leave it at that. Would be nice to see which camshaft part number my car has but I'm not about to take the engine to pieces to find out ......
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  31. #30
    aiculedtzu's Avatar
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    Q: Milltek Exhaust or Fuel Pump ?
    A: Both

    And ask Superchips to provide you a stage 2 remap.
    Audi S3 2.0 TFSI quattro - Turbo-Back exhaust - Cold Air Intake - Uprated Fuel Pump - Upgraded Clutch - Upgraded Intercooler - Stage2+ Software

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiekip View Post
    So how much is this uprated fuel pump?
    I might get this done... if it makes 3rd and 4th gears even stronger I'll have to put plastic covers over my seats... I'm loving my car with the GIAC right now!
    You will need to get it re-remapped Jammie to get he most from it.

    p

  33. #32
    S3-N's Avatar
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    This made me think twice about the Autotech pump.... ok it's by someone from APR but still an interesting read

    Quote, originally posted by Keith@APR on VWVortex

    As for cost, there are reasons. First of all, if we just wanted to release a handful of parts we could have done this last year. The design had already been tested for thousands of miles at that point and was proven. The issue with this product is ensuring that every single pump installed is 100% because a single bad part can spell disaster. QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY! Anyone here who is familiar with quality control especially when dealing with highly critical, incredibly precise parts understands this problem.
    Let me briefly explain what will happen if a high pressure pump fails. These are not "scare tactics". This is an honest explanation of the damage that can occur if one of these pumps go bad! There are several scenarios and none are particularly pretty. In the best scenario, the fuel pump will simply seize on the down stroke. This will simply cause the engine to stall. The fuel pump can be removed and replaced. Another scenario would be the fuel pump seizing on the up stroke. This is a lot worse. This will cause a mechanical failure of the either the pump body, retaining bolts or it will break the intake camshaft in half (remember, the high pressure pump is directly driven off of the intake camshaft.) We have never tested this failure so I can't tell you which one will break first but in any case one of them will. Either of these scenarios can happen if the plunger to barrel clearance is not perfect or if there is some other geometric fault in the assembly. This is not something that can be verified by eye or by feel. We prevent these two situations by certifying ever single plunger/barrel assembly and by testing every single pump that leaves our facility. If there is a problem, we will catch it! Every single pump endures a testing cycle that includes being run at engine redline and full system pressure.
    Another potential high pressure pump failure is leakage of fuel into the engine. This is a potentially catastrophic failure. Since the pump is cam driven, one side of the fuel pump has direct access to the engine's oiling system. If fuel leaks past the fuel pump into the engine, the fuel can dilute the engine oil. The driver may have no clue that this is occuring until it is too late. It does not take a tremendous amount of fuel to dilute the engine oil to the point that the oil loses its lubrication properties. When this occurs you can loses bearings, camshafts, lifters, turbochargers- basically time for a new engine. How can this occur? Very simply. A slight error during assembly and the seal is damaged. A faulty seal can also do this. Even just torquing the retaining nut to the wrong torque can distort the bore of the pump just enough to cause a failure. A tiny amount of extra clearance on the plunger/barrel and the seal won't be able to hold back the pressure (remember, one side of the piston can see up to almost 2000 psi.) There is only one way to verify that this won't happen. Test the pumps before they are put on cars!
    It has been stated that the fuel pump parts are so easy to replace, so why not let the end user do it? Why don't hard drive manufacturers sell replacement platters for do it yourself installation? Heck, there is only like four screws holding a hard drive together? The answer is simple- it is way, way to easy to screw it up and the implications are potentially disastrous. And even if you didn't screw it up you don't know for absolute sure that the pump is good until you put it on the car and test it. We found this concept absolutely entirely unacceptable. Believe me, if we thought it was acceptable we would have done it- it would have eliminated a great deal of work in testing and certifying the pumps and we could definitely have sold the pumps for less (and probably many more of them)!
    Our high pressure fuel pump tester takes care of the problem of verifying the pumps. This was a large engineering undertaking! I won't bore you with too many of the details (we will write an article on the tester soon) but all of the mechanicals and electronics are custom. It is an impressive machine. This was by far the most difficult portion of this project.
    Anyways, every pump is tested and we have enacted numerous quality measures to ensure that we will have a 100% success rate with these pumps so that you guys won't have any problems. Every pump begins with a brand new OEM pump. This affects the cost of course. In the future we hope to have a rebuild program where people can send in their original pumps and we perform the modifications. This will help cost. We will also work to get the cost down in other areas as we ramp the production quantities up.
    I hope I haven't scared anyone away from a high pressure pump upgrade. I am 100% confident in our product. It really is a great upgrade and it paves the way for many more exciting performance upgrades in the future!
    Phantom Black B7 S4 + Milltek

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    I fitted full Milltek Turbo back and the APR fuel pump and map to suit on my last car, a 57 plate Golf GTi ED30, and can tell you the midrange is fantastic, traction really was an issue with the FWD chassis. One of the reasons I went for the S3 to replace it after I killed it. It made 316bhp and 348 ft/lbs, was a real quick car, the fuel pump mod is deffinately worth it


    08 Ibis S3, REVO stg2+, APR HPFP, Milltek TBE, ITG intake, BSH catch can, H&R springs, 19" MTM's, Lamin-x'd
    ???bhp, ???ft/lbs

  35. #34
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3-Nick View Post
    This made me think twice about the Autotech pump.... ok it's by someone from APR but still an interesting read

    Quote, originally posted by Keith@APR on VWVortex
    Thanks Nick - wasn't it you who was specifically advised by their tuner NOT to change the fuel pump ? Thought I'd seen something in another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustCharlie View Post
    I fitted full Milltek Turbo back and the APR fuel pump and map to suit on my last car, a 57 plate Golf GTi ED30, and can tell you the midrange is fantastic, traction really was an issue with the FWD chassis. One of the reasons I went for the S3 to replace it after I killed it. It made 316bhp and 348 ft/lbs, was a real quick car, the fuel pump mod is deffinately worth it
    That's settled it for me - if I change the fuel pump I'll do APR or nothing. Thanks everyone: great knowledge on here.
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  36. #35
    S3-N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Thanks Nick - wasn't it you who was specifically advised by their tuner NOT to change the fuel pump ? Thought I'd seen something in another thread.
    Yeah that was me. I won't be changing mine, even for the APR. They have nothing to gain by not recommending it and actually lose my cash by not doing so. I'm going to just stick with my custom remap.
    Phantom Black B7 S4 + Milltek

  37. #36
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    All I can say having had a remap with and without the pump on my ED30 the gains are well worth the 500 quid, the increase in midrange was fantastic


    08 Ibis S3, REVO stg2+, APR HPFP, Milltek TBE, ITG intake, BSH catch can, H&R springs, 19" MTM's, Lamin-x'd
    ???bhp, ???ft/lbs

 

 

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