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  1. #41
    Iggu's Avatar
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    Running it standard for a week (took Bluefin off yesterday). Then will reinstall next weekend and run for a week again. See if there's any difference.

    My suspicion is there won't be much of one ..... but I certainly won't be going for any other remap either. I just wouldn't be able to experience a 5% gain in power on road or track. I was sold on the remap idea based on an increase from 261 to over 300. If standard is 290+ what's the point ?

    Tell you what WAS value for money mate - 40 for the insight/knowledge gained yesterday. Will probably save me hundreds (although too late for the Bluefin cost - but eBay could help me there !)
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

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  3. #42
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    ^^^^TBH. mate , i would speak to Superchips about it , email them our Std plots and your Bluefined plot and tell them i want a upgraded map that i can " feel " or i want my money back.

    You might be in luck as they would want to keep you qiuet.

    p
    Last edited by phantom; 29th June 2008 at 10:30.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL_B View Post
    http://www.statman.info/conversions/power.html

    Conversion tool.

    Putting 214Kw into the tool and selecting, "Horsepower (metric, DIN, PS)" the figure comes out at 290.95.

    Selecting "Horsepower (hp)" it comes out at 286.98.

    So I'm going to take the print out as being PS and not bhp.
    Ive just had a go at this, putting my 216Kw in comes back at Horsepower ( metric , DIN , ps ) 293.66.

    Putting it in as 216Kw it comes back 289.97 HP

    So which ever way you slice it my cars around 290hp

    p
    Last edited by phantom; 29th June 2008 at 11:23.

  5. #44
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    Some interesting results there, especially from the standard cars. However as other have been said, it not just about peak figure, its how much more torque is available, and from what RPM.

    I have the Oettinger map on mine (305BHP apparently), and over standard the difference is just night and day - more torque lower down, smoother, and lots more mid range punch. Ive had my map off the car for 2 or 3 weeks now, as I thought I'd sold it, and the car feels tame compared, and has to be driven a lot harder to get a similar perfomance as the map. However I'm getting the map put on again tomorrow, so it will be intersting to see the difference.

    When are you going to organise a rolling road further south?

    Good write up and pics
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  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by N8KOW View Post
    Nice to meet peeps today! Leon's S3 was lovely and clean, turks did a great job
    .

    N8, I didnt know you were there! Did I speak to you? Same with David and his Solar, wanted to have a chat with him too but only met him as I saw leavin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    A fascinating day - and great to put faces to some names (Kontraband doesn't even look like a drugsmuggler !). Cheers Leon.
    hahaha, cheers mate. Much more respectable now, had well long hippy hair back then... and... as I told them, its for personal consumption!!! Great day tho, good laugh and a couple of pics:

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    and for the record... I was running Tescos 99 RON... seems to be doing the trick.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Great pics Leon white still looks best !
    Let me put my point another way I think anyone contemplating a remap needs to be aware that the gains you will make (whether its bhp or lb/ft) are not the gains the companies selling you the map will claim.

    Take Phantoms standard car and compare it with a GIAC remapped car. The facts are these:

    Power (bhp) gain: 4% (294 up to 305)
    Torque (lb/ft) gain: 8% (306 to 332)

    GIAC themselves quote:

    Power (bhp) gain: 17% (261 up to 306)
    Torque (lb/ft) gain: 25% (258 to 323)

    What any prospective re-mapper needs to decide is whether the ACTUAL gains of 4% and 8% are worth the investment.
    Your percentage gains are undeniably true although it is still based on peak power figures. So, lets just imagine a hyperthetical scenerio in that as a stock S3 makes 265 bhp and a mapped car also makes 265 bhp ,,,,,,, increase of 0 percent! The mapped car makes more torque and bhp sooner throughout the power range making the the car much faster than stock in any gear or rpm, is it a more enjoyable drive?? Or another way of looking at it is if Audi offered lets call it a sports ECU option on your 30K car costing 500 which gave more grunt throughout the range would it be worth it?

    With regard to manufacturers increased quotes they are blatently missleading knowing now what stock S3's kick out. Good job there's forums like ASN to share the facts before people part with their hard earned cash.
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  8. #47
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    Well ive known since the Awesome RR day that Std cars put out 280-290bhp ( ive had set too's with Spin140 about it enough times )

    After yesterday we can put it to bed.

    The rremappers are right in saying gains of 40-50bhp over book figures , but as we know Std cars put out a lot more.

    So in the real world a remap will " still " give you gains of " up to " 15-40bhp and the same in torque depending on your Std car and the remap you go with!

    Even if you get the lower end of the gains , the car will be " faster " all over the rev range and give you more power all over the rev range.

    With that in mind i still think it's a worth while mod ( in theory anyway )

    p
    Last edited by phantom; 29th June 2008 at 14:39.

  9. #48
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    yes, people shouldnt get too hung up on peak figures, it the increase throughout the rev range that will make itself felt when you drive it.

    The first time I drove an s3 I felt it had way more than the stated 260bhp, I did wonder whether the dealer had actually had it remapped just to sell the car more.

    I think all the reputable tuners offer some sort of money back guarantee if you're not satisfied within the first few days.

    I'd assume that the average for a standard car is 285bhp, in that case a real 20-30bhp increase for 500-600 is an absolute bargain compared to other more traditional methods of tuning (ie replacement cams etc)

  10. #49
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    Also as proved yesterday , good fuel ie Tesco99 and V-power " does " make a noticable difference.

    Me , AL B , and Kontraband use the above , while L3ON and SI3ZZ0's mate use lesser fuel.

    8-9hp difference on the RR.

    p

  11. #50
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    Last edited by mitch78; 16th March 2009 at 00:04.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

  12. #51
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    Cheers for organising this, had a good day. Looking forward to ED38.

  13. #52
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    What did you think of the scores on the doors mate?

    p

  14. #53
    S3IZZO
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    I have no real opinions, standard cars are making more than quoted, I already knew this from the AwesomeGTI day.

    A remap regardless of tuner makes a lot of difference to the driveability of the car and for that alone I think it's definately worth the money.

  15. #54
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    Last edited by mitch78; 16th March 2009 at 00:01.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

  16. #55
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    Best to get a remap done at a car show at a discounted price like I did...

    Well worth it then!

  17. #56
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    Guys some wicked figures there! Gutted i couldn't make this.

    I'm gonna try and get mine done asap! 294bhp from a standard S3, thats huge!
    Might answer why my mates Bluefin'd S3 couldn't get away from me, assuming he's getting the full potential from his map..... hhhmmmmm

    Glad to hear that people are acknowledging that white is the best colour! LOL

    Nice1

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    All Hail Mitch78

  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE79 View Post
    Glad to hear that people are acknowledging that white is the best colour! LOL
    I'M NOT

    P

  19. #58
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    Some great results there lads

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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE79 View Post
    Glad to hear that people are acknowledging that white is the best colour! LOL
    Paul
    Me either !
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  21. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom View Post
    Ive just had a go at this, putting my 216Kw in comes back at Horsepower ( metric , DIN , ps ) 293.66.

    Putting it in as 216Kw it comes back 289.97 HP

    So which ever way you slice it my cars around 290hp

    p

    Yeah. Which ever way you look at it, the cars are putting out approximately 290hp, as you say. I'm still shocked to be honest.

    From a figures point of view, it's a but puzzling as to why my torque was a bit down. But it's still decent.

    AL
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  22. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL_B View Post
    Yeah. Which ever way you look at it, the cars are putting out approximately 290hp, as you say. I'm still shocked to be honest.

    From a figures point of view, it's a but puzzling as to why my torque was a bit down. But it's still decent.

    AL
    I think some cars are stronger than others , depending on how you drive them day to day.

    I give mine a good hiding day to day , L6ON got less BHP than us , but high torque , i recon he gives he's a thrashing too.

    p

  23. #62
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    hahaha. Yep, I believe that.

    I do drive mine conservatively, ish, especially to work, as I'd be for ever putting fuel in!! I certainly don't drive this one like my S3 8L, that got thrashed on a day-to-day basis.

    AL
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  24. #63
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    I drive mine nice and sedately, didnt you see the 2 kid seats!

    Oh no wait... my eldest lad is continually saying 'faster faster faster'.

    I only have 2200 on the clock tho... wonder if break in miles is a factor or if the run indays are long gone?

  25. #64
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    Guys,

    What we haven't discussed, and what we didn't find out (or did anyone?), was what the cars were outputing at the wheels (as a friend of mine has just pointed out).

    Did anyone get an idea of what the drive-train losses were? It's usually quite high on 4wd cars.

    Cheers

    AL
    '07 Phantom Black S3 - '07 to now - Bucket Seats, FBMFSW, BOSE, Symphony II+, Cruise Control, Elec Folding Mirrors, Front Centre Armrest, Rear Armrest & Through Load, Interior Light Pack, Luggage Pack, Reversible Boot Mat, Luggage net.
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  26. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuickNick View Post
    Me either !
    White has certainly grown on me as a colour but its not the best colour IMO.

    I like mine black - Oohh Errh
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  27. #66
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    I think all the colours work on this car... I'd be happy with any... although the solar wouldnt really 'blend' as much as I'd often like!

  28. #67
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    What you really need to see to choose between the maps is the torque curve from each. Peak figures are all about willy waving, but the torque curve is what makes a car fast on the road in my opinion.
    So soes anyone have a standard torque map that could be overlaid with the 3 different curves from the mapped cars? That would be much much more useful to be honest.

  29. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL_B View Post
    Guys,

    What we haven't discussed, and what we didn't find out (or did anyone?), was what the cars were outputing at the wheels (as a friend of mine has just pointed out).

    Did anyone get an idea of what the drive-train losses were? It's usually quite high on 4wd cars.

    Cheers

    AL
    Good point AL , i never TBH.

    Some lad on here , a S African member i think said he's losses were as little as 11% at there RRday , which is not that much more than a FWD car.

    Awesome recon between 18-20% when we had our day there , we got ATW figures and they converted it for me into BHP and it came back 286-296bhp depending on 18 or 20 % losses.

    To be fair it ties in with what we saw the other day.

    p

  30. #69
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    Big thanks to everybody.



    Thanks

    leon

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    you 8p s3 boys did well with the stock cars didnt ya. looks like a great day. wish i couldv gone now.

  32. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Rav View Post
    you 8p s3 boys did well with the stock cars didnt ya. looks like a great day. wish i couldv gone now.
    Sure there'll another... was a good day

  33. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    450 gets you Bluefin - which offers ZERO gain over a standard S3.
    I am just scanning through this thread but I have to say that that statement is not true for me. I felt a massive difference when I Bluefinned mine.
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  34. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by staz1000 View Post
    I am just scanning through this thread but I have to say that that statement is not true for me. I felt a massive difference when I Bluefinned mine.
    You're misreading me mate. I'm talking about measured gains on the RR. I too felt a massive difference in the WAY it drives with Bluefin (I've been running without it on for the last 3 days and the differences are even clearer) but the RR gain was zero over standard cars.

    Standard cars 294bhp
    Bluefinned cars 291bhp

    I agree it feels different.
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  35. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    You're misreading me mate. I'm talking about measured gains on the RR. I too felt a massive difference in the WAY it drives with Bluefin (I've been running without it on for the last 3 days and the differences are even clearer) but the RR gain was zero over standard cars.

    Standard cars 294bhp
    Bluefinned cars 291bhp

    I agree it feels different.
    Hmm I know it's late in the day with regards to this thread, plus I wasn't there on the day, plus I can't actually see most of the jpgs as they're blocked by the MOD server....BUT....I don't believe them. Feeling the difference in my own car tells me there's something not right with those figures.
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  36. #75
    jamiekip
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    Could we get people to post their RR graphs from the day?
    I'm really interested to see the difference.
    Be good if we could have:
    Standard - Phantom and L6ON
    GIAC - Quick Nick and KRSI (and Jonnyc's to completely shame everyone!)
    Revo - S3izzo
    Bluefin - IGGU

    Phantom - do you think prosport hold electronic copies of the plots???? might make it easier??

  37. #76
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    Really good idea, would be interesting to see all of the graphs overlaid on one plot as im sure certain cars will be stronger in different areas..

    Jonny
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  38. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiekip View Post
    Could we get people to post their RR graphs from the day?
    I'm really interested to see the difference.
    Be good if we could have:
    Standard - Phantom and L6ON
    GIAC - Quick Nick and KRSI (and Jonnyc's to completely shame everyone!)
    Revo - S3izzo
    Bluefin - IGGU

    Phantom - do you think prosport hold electronic copies of the plots???? might make it easier??
    I'll scan mine in later when I go into work - but someone more teccy will have to do the overlaying stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by staz1000 View Post
    Hmm I know it's late in the day with regards to this thread, plus I wasn't there on the day, plus I can't actually see most of the jpgs as they're blocked by the MOD server....BUT....I don't believe them. Feeling the difference in my own car tells me there's something not right with those figures.
    Does seem very odd - but ALL standard cars were showing above 290bhp (some were over 300bhp) and NO purely mapped cars (apart from S3IZZO's Revo map) showed anything like the quoted gains made by tuning companies.

    I'd doubt it myself if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes .....
    Phantom Black S3, RNS-E with SDS Hack , BOSE, Sunroof, iPod, ITG CAI, Forge DV, Milltek TBE, Revo Stage 2+, Autotech HPFP, Sachs clutch, Lamin-X, BBS Pescaras, H&R springs, H&R ARBs, NGK Iridium Plugs, Vagcom.

  39. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by staz1000 View Post
    Hmm I know it's late in the day with regards to this thread, plus I wasn't there on the day, plus I can't actually see most of the jpgs as they're blocked by the MOD server....BUT....I don't believe them. Feeling the difference in my own car tells me there's something not right with those figures.
    Could suggest that not all standard cars are making such big power, I know that my car was massively faster after the GIAC map, especially top end power..

    Maybes its conicidence that the standard S3's that were there on the day were all strong cars..

    Either way I can understand the frustration with the claimed gains from the maps.

    It seems that based on the figures the standard cars made on the day there is no way a software tuning company will be able to make the claimed gains on top of the actual RR figures of the S3..

    That would be +45HP on top of 290+ which is not going to happen without some extra hardware on top..
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  40. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiekip View Post
    Could we get people to post their RR graphs from the day?
    I'm really interested to see the difference.
    Be good if we could have:
    Standard - Phantom and L6ON
    GIAC - Quick Nick and KRSI (and Jonnyc's to completely shame everyone!)
    Revo - S3izzo
    Bluefin - IGGU

    Phantom - do you think prosport hold electronic copies of the plots???? might make it easier??
    I'll scan mine in when I get home - can you embed jpg's directly, or do they have to be hosted elsewhere
    2007 Silver S3 - DVD SatNav, MFBSW, Bose, GSM Bluetooth Phone prep, privacy glass, cruise control, lighting and rain sensor pack, piano inlays, GIAC Hammer map

  41. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Does seem very odd - but ALL standard cars were showing above 290bhp (some were over 300bhp) and NO purely mapped cars (apart from S3IZZO's Revo map) showed anything like the quoted gains made by tuning companies.

    I'd doubt it myself if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes .....
    Even if I saw it with my own eyes I still would believe they all produced 290bhp.
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