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  1. #1
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    Exclamation LOL Starting to belive it to !

    In reliabilty index audi gets in top ten in WORST performers!!!

    RankCar MakeIndex Rating
    1PORSCHE240.012

    JEEP224.603

    LANDROVER211.714

    ALFA ROMEO155.595

    CHRYSLER152.196

    JAGUAR137.167

    AUDI135.508

    SAAB124.339

    MG120.0810

    MERCEDES116.27
    WELL DONE AUDI!!
    Think your but half decent car. even more so for the blood money.
    Last edited by dantdi; 22nd October 2008 at 17:10.

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    nice linking of picture there. Dont know how accurate or up to date these figures are but the latest J.D Power Quality Chart came out today which is generally reliable and Audi came in the Top 10 at 113 defects per 100 cars built with Porsche topping the chart with 87 defects per 100 cars built (Industry average is 117).

    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/04/j...quality-study/
    Last edited by mcc49; 4th June 2008 at 22:08.

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    Also had a quick look at OP's website and noticed the 'latest' news are dated back in 2005 and none of the car models featured are newer than 04, so those figures are 4 years old.

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    You should not be allowed near a computer keyboard until you learn how to use it properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcc49 View Post
    nice linking of picture there. Dont know how accurate or up to date these figures are but the latest J.D Power Quality Chart came out today which is generally reliable and Audi came in the Top 10 at 113 defects per 100 cars built with Porsche topping the chart with 87 defects per 100 cars built (Industry average is 117).

    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/04/j...quality-study/
    scary stat - every car built has a fault.................

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcc49 View Post
    nice linking of picture there. Dont know how accurate or up to date these figures are but the latest J.D Power Quality Chart came out today which is generally reliable and Audi came in the Top 10 at 113 defects per 100 cars built with Porsche topping the chart with 87 defects per 100 cars built (Industry average is 117).

    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/04/j...quality-study/
    Ford beat Audi.
    Interesting.
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  8. #7
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    Kia beating BMW.
    Interesting.

  9. #8
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    I don't go around knocking Kia though....
    Ford have been slated on here, recently.
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  10. #9
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    I think you have to look at the overall product these companies build. Ford are hardly pushing any boundaries, they make solid, run of the mill, tried and tested cars whereas companies like BMW and Audi are constantly introducing new technologies into cars e.g. diesel technology, magnetic ride, different 4WD linkages etc etc.
    There are always going to be issues with companies who build cars in that way.
    In the same note, Porsche don't EVER do anything different. It's tried and tested solid technology. Alright they introduce refinements and tweak the formula every year but they don't throw anywhere near as much money at development as the VAG group or competitors like ferrari. Maybe thats why they're trying to take over VAG?
    I've never known a Porsche be a dog, well, carreras anyway. I would have thought this survey is totally reliant on high paying, enraged customers who expect perfection and are shocked and appauled when they get anything less... I.e. polls like this are made by unrealistic customer expectation. Mechanical things go wrong, the more complex the higher the risk. Not rocket science is it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    Ford are hardly pushing any boundaries, they make solid, run of the mill, tried and tested cars whereas companies like BMW and Audi are constantly introducing new technologies into cars e.g. diesel technology,
    How can you say that, when Ford have had a common rail diesel for ages, yet Audi have only recently introduced it, and only on the A4 (so far)?
    What else is so technically advanced about an A3 over, say, a Focus?
    Or, for that matter, the new A4 over the new Mondeo?
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 5th June 2008 at 11:24.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer View Post
    I don't go around knocking Kia though....
    Ford have been slated on here, recently.
    Not me mate, ive been quite vocal about the fact that I found Ford very well made

  13. #12
    L60N
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    I think you have to look at the overall product these companies build. Ford are hardly pushing any boundaries, they make solid, run of the mill, tried and tested cars whereas companies like BMW and Audi are constantly introducing new technologies into cars e.g. diesel technology, magnetic ride, different 4WD linkages etc etc.
    There are always going to be issues with companies who build cars in that way.
    In the same note, Porsche don't EVER do anything different. It's tried and tested solid technology. Alright they introduce refinements and tweak the formula every year but they don't throw anywhere near as much money at development as the VAG group or competitors like ferrari. Maybe thats why they're trying to take over VAG?
    I've never known a Porsche be a dog, well, carreras anyway. I would have thought this survey is totally reliant on high paying, enraged customers who expect perfection and are shocked and appauled when they get anything less... I.e. polls like this are made by unrealistic customer expectation. Mechanical things go wrong, the more complex the higher the risk. Not rocket science is it.
    Any products reaching the public whether new OR tried and tested should be bomb proof. Its not ok to say "Yeah, our products have failed in the past but its new and innovative stuff, they'll be ironed out over time" That is using the consumer as a guinea pig

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    No to be fair lads i'll take that one on the chin.... Innovation is no excuse for mechanical failure in a product. Fair enough. You spend the money on researching technology then you should equally spend on testing.

    Although my point stands regarding the people who take part in these surveys. I'm too busy just driving my car and being happy with it, without feeling i need to prove a point and tell the world.
    Audi set themselves up for a fall with the image of perfection because anything less and the customers feel ripped off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    Although my point stands regarding the people who take part in these surveys. I'm too busy just driving my car and being happy with it, without feeling i need to prove a point and tell the world..
    and posting a comment about being happy with your car on an internet forum isnt telling the world?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bacardi View Post
    and posting a comment about being happy with your car on an internet forum isnt telling the world?

    Come on now lets not start splitting hairs. You know full well what i'm saying... Most people only take part in such surveys for 1 of 3 main reasons:

    1. For the price they paid for the car they are exceptionally happy with the overall package of reliability and dealer service. Therefore they think the world should know about this as that manufacturer clearly deserves a mention.

    2. Mainly applying to prestige marques: For the premium price they paid they feel cheated by build quality, reliability and/or dealer service and feel that the world should know that these companies do not deserve their reputation of excellence. Basically angry people who expected perfection and didn't get it.

    3. People who have just been unfortunate enough to get a dog sh*t car irrespective of price. It happens.

    For the rest of us we think our cars are 'fine'. We weren't under any illusion thinking that german cars are bomb proof and accept mechanical faults will happen irrespective of price from time to time. Like i say i'm just happy (not being smug and shouting about it), the car isn't perfect but it's been good so far, as was my experience with the dealer. So no reason to take part in a survey. I just get on with driving it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L60N View Post
    Kia beating BMW.
    Interesting.
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  18. #17
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    Kia beating BMW is a perfect example of why these surveys mean absolutely bugger all. People expect Kia's to be awful and are overwhelmed when they actually turn out to be 'ok', gets them to work on time and the dealer offers them coffee.
    BMW tout their cars as 'the ultimate driving machine'.... when it doesn't deliver it's time to moan, and quite rightly so. It's false advertising!

    But lets not start thinking kia make a superior product to BMW because they clearly don't....The clients just have different expectations.
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  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    Come on now lets not start splitting hairs. You know full well what i'm saying... Most people only take part in such surveys for 1 of 3 main reasons:

    1. For the price they paid for the car they are exceptionally happy with the overall package of reliability and dealer service. Therefore they think the world should know about this as that manufacturer clearly deserves a mention.

    2. Mainly applying to prestige marques: For the premium price they paid they feel cheated by build quality, reliability and/or dealer service and feel that the world should know that these companies do not deserve their reputation of excellence. Basically angry people who expected perfection and didn't get it.

    3. People who have just been unfortunate enough to get a dog sh*t car irrespective of price. It happens.

    For the rest of us we think our cars are 'fine'. We weren't under any illusion thinking that german cars are bomb proof and accept mechanical faults will happen irrespective of price from time to time. Like i say i'm just happy (not being smug and shouting about it), the car isn't perfect but it's been good so far, as was my experience with the dealer. So no reason to take part in a survey. I just get on with driving it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    Come on now lets not start splitting hairs. You know full well what i'm saying... Most people only take part in such surveys for 1 of 3 main reasons:

    1. For the price they paid for the car they are exceptionally happy with the overall package of reliability and dealer service. Therefore they think the world should know about this as that manufacturer clearly deserves a mention.

    2. Mainly applying to prestige marques: For the premium price they paid they feel cheated by build quality, reliability and/or dealer service and feel that the world should know that these companies do not deserve their reputation of excellence. Basically angry people who expected perfection and didn't get it.

    3. People who have just been unfortunate enough to get a dog sh*t car irrespective of price. It happens.

    For the rest of us we think our cars are 'fine'. We weren't under any illusion thinking that german cars are bomb proof and accept mechanical faults will happen irrespective of price from time to time. Like i say i'm just happy (not being smug and shouting about it), the car isn't perfect but it's been good so far, as was my experience with the dealer. So no reason to take part in a survey. I just get on with driving it.
    in regards to filling in surveys I totally agree,

    there is also the 4th option, t
    hose who are hardened evangelist's for their respective marques, these aren't just limited to the likes of Skoda etc, but also a lot of Audi/BMW/Mercedes owners fall into this bracket, as ably demonstrated by conversations on this forum

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    Lol Golf yea a know im **** with computer soz about that.

    Things is i have a3 2004 2.0tdi wit 55,700 on it now. All keep hearing about is this bloody cracks on head, water pumps plastic impellers fallin bits.
    Is it worth getting rid of it while its running ok touch wood?
    Must admit i really like car just not problems could happen with the head. know all car have there problems but head be costly one.
    Would audi pay towards it if head was to go being out warranty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    Kia beating BMW is a perfect example of why these surveys mean absolutely bugger all. People expect Kia's to be awful and are overwhelmed when they actually turn out to be 'ok', gets them to work on time and the dealer offers them coffee.
    BMW tout their cars as 'the ultimate driving machine'.... when it doesn't deliver it's time to moan, and quite rightly so. It's false advertising!

    But lets not start thinking kia make a superior product to BMW because they clearly don't....The clients just have different expectations.
    I dont see how that is a valid argument? A fault is a fault no matter what it is and thats what the survey is based on, just because a faulty headlight for example is a fault on a 30k+ BMW doesnt mean its not a fault on a 7k Kia just because its a cheaper car. Yes in terms of Driving dynamics and material quality, BMW is light years ahead of Kia (personal opinion) but that doesnt automatically make it more reliable.

    As for Fords they built very good reliable cars, prime example of this is the Ford Focus which really sets the standard for all new Family sized Hatchbacks.
    Last edited by mcc49; 5th June 2008 at 17:23.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacardi View Post
    in regards to filling in surveys I totally agree,

    there is also the 4th option, t
    hose who are hardened evangelist's for their respective marques, these aren't just limited to the likes of Skoda etc, but also a lot of Audi/BMW/Mercedes owners fall into this bracket, as ably demonstrated by conversations on this forum
    Agreed, there are a lot of fanboys who fill out surveys. To clarify... Don't ever buy a car based on a survey lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    Agreed, there are a lot of fanboys who fill out surveys. To clarify... Don't ever buy a car based on a survey lol
    Who do you believe in terms of reliabilty though? Who is to say that Audi's, for example, are any more reliable than Kia's?
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by L60N View Post
    Any products reaching the public whether new OR tried and tested should be bomb proof. Its not ok to say "Yeah, our products have failed in the past but its new and innovative stuff, they'll be ironed out over time" That is using the consumer as a guinea pig

    Imagine if RR or Bowing did that with there planes........
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  26. #25
    But if an A3 cost the same as a RR....

    And a high percentage of the cost of any new aeroplane goes on testing because the consequences if something went drastically wrong would be rather more series. Also I very much doubt if every function, fitting and part on any new Bowing or any other aircraft work perfectly when they are delivered and continue to work perfectly throughout the life of the aircraft. Flight controls and engines are tested to a much greater degree than the rest of the aircraft and even they have been known to fail.
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  27. #26
    L60N
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    Some guys are missing the point. These arnt the results of a survey. "we asked 100 people".

    Its the number of faults found. To clarify:

    "The IQS measures problems per 100 vehicles during the first 90 days of ownership in the areas of quality of design (i.e. poorly designed cupholders) and defects and malfunctions"

    It is the population of real world data, cars coming in for work to be carried out.

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    Well guys if you knew how many things don't work 100% on planes you would be worried... ahaha

    Concerning the survey... I couldn't care less! In this modern age any car is reliable, some might need the driver to actually comply with service intervals... others just don't break no matter I much people murder them!!!!

    I guess I have been lucky so far... all my cars never had any problem at all... maybe I drive like an old lady or maybe I keep checking tyres pressures, fluid levels often or just maybe because my car is garaged or I actually sercice them when supposed... Maybe because I let engine warm to temperature before trashing it, maybe because I do lots of motorway miles...

    I don't know... let's call it luck!

    Also in this modern age no one buys a car from this brand or that one having reliability in mind! They are all reliable! Some of them have the image, or prestige if you want, others the performance... but reliability? Long is the time where Toyotas were the only ones not breaking down.....

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    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by L60N View Post
    Some guys are missing the point. These arnt the results of a survey. "we asked 100 people".

    Its the number of faults found. To clarify:

    "The IQS measures problems per 100 vehicles during the first 90 days of ownership in the areas of quality of design (i.e. poorly designed cupholders) and defects and malfunctions"

    It is the population of real world data, cars coming in for work to be carried out.
    Absolutely agree,

    that was the point I was trying to get across with the line, so every car has a fault - which is kinda scary really!

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by bacardi View Post
    Absolutely agree,

    that was the point I was trying to get across with the line, so every car has a fault - which is kinda scary really!
    Even more scary is that every aircraft has a fault!!

    I suppose in both cases it depends how serious the fault is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L60N View Post
    Some guys are missing the point. These arnt the results of a survey. "we asked 100 people".

    Its the number of faults found. To clarify:

    "The IQS measures problems per 100 vehicles during the first 90 days of ownership in the areas of quality of design (i.e. poorly designed cupholders) and defects and malfunctions"

    It is the population of real world data, cars coming in for work to be carried out.
    Yes, but this is all subject to the owners taking the car to have remedial work. As I see it, it's the expectations of the owners. I'm buying in to what I believe is a better quality product. If that expectation isn't a reality, I'll go back to Audi. If I'd bought a cheaper alternative, I'd perhaps accept smaller issues with the car.

  32. #31
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    Surely it's down to the quality of the engineers they employ- and I imagine Audi can afford the very best. They do know a thing or two about cars and they know with all this perceived quality they can't get it wrong- Peugeot is more of a budget brand so you tend to accept that it would go wrong.
    To be fair german engineering is good and always has been. Your Miele and thelikes are top of the range...
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  33. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    Yes, but this is all subject to the owners taking the car to have remedial work. As I see it, it's the expectations of the owners. I'm buying in to what I believe is a better quality product. If that expectation isn't a reality, I'll go back to Audi. If I'd bought a cheaper alternative, I'd perhaps accept smaller issues with the car.
    This is one of the main reasons maufacturers like Skoda always seem to do well in car surveys. Their purchasers have a generally lower expectation of quality than say someone purchasing a Mercedes, BMW or Audi.
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  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    Even more scary is that every aircraft has a fault!!

    I suppose in both cases it depends how serious the fault is.
    Well boys my commute is taken via helicopter out into the north sea, and you wouldn't belive the amount of times we have been about to lift only for the chopper to go "technical"! At the end of the day all these machines are only as safe as the guy who maintain them. Seeing as I work in maintenance this is pretty f*cking scary because you only need the one guy who isn't really interested/trouble at home/rough from the night before to start cutting corners and before you know it you are up the creek without a paddle......


  35. #34
    L60N
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    Yes, but this is all subject to the owners taking the car to have remedial work. As I see it, it's the expectations of the owners. I'm buying in to what I believe is a better quality product. If that expectation isn't a reality, I'll go back to Audi. If I'd bought a cheaper alternative, I'd perhaps accept smaller issues with the car.
    Whether i owned a Citroen or a Bentley, if there was a problem (anything from a rattley dash,loose fittings to more serious issues) i'd be returning it to the dealer to investigate.

    Remember, whatever you buy, it will be relative to your lifestyle. To further state; people will always push to what they can afford, and as such will want thier purchase to be worthy.

    Does that make sense? I know what i mean anyway :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by sat1983 View Post
    Surely it's down to the quality of the engineers they employ- and I imagine Audi can afford the very best. They do know a thing or two about cars and they know with all this perceived quality they can't get it wrong- Peugeot is more of a budget brand so you tend to accept that it would go wrong.
    To be fair german engineering is good and always has been. Your Miele and thelikes are top of the range...
    Just because they can afford to employ decent engineers doesn't mean to say they do - don't forget companies are run for profit margins, pure and simple and the VAG empire is doing quite well for itself

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    Quote Originally Posted by L60N View Post
    Whether i owned a Citroen or a Bentley, if there was a problem (anything from a rattley dash,loose fittings to more serious issues) i'd be returning it to the dealer to investigate.

    Remember, whatever you buy, it will be relative to your lifestyle. To further state; people will always push to what they can afford, and as such will want thier purchase to be worthy.

    Does that make sense? I know what i mean anyway :P
    Absolutely - my wife's Toyota cost us 20k, (4k less than my A3 cost)

    In the same amount of time, absolutely nothing has gone wrong with it, nadda, zip, not even a dash rattle - if something did, I'd take it back to fix it

    her old Mini One had a problem with the passenger seat coming apart, after 2 years, I thought trying to get it fixed under warranty would be an epic adventure, the dealer fixed it straight away, without asking a single question................

 

 

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