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  1. #1
    sat1983's Avatar
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    Lets have a change- Audi VS Alfa

    Very many things differenciate them, we do know that- but it can't be denied that Alfa do some very nice cars- and very reasonably priced too ( with decent discounts too although is that a downside??).
    I have heard that they are sorting out the dealerships too, lets hope for the better.
    They seem to be giving the 147's away- any reason? My 2006 A3 seems worth more than an 08 plate 147 JTD. Kinda frightening really- would anyone take the plunge or is buying an Alfa a very foolish thing to do?
    Ex 2006 A3 2.0 TDI owner

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  3. #2
    Low life livin' the high life.

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    How can i put it.... Apples and oranges. Yes they're both cars but other than that nothing in common really. Different design philosophy and generally differently engineered cars.

    I do like Alfa's a lot but wouldn't buy one myself although i do have the upmost respect for anyone who does take the plunge because it's a car bought out of love for motoring, not playing it safe or resale values..... I'm sure thats a sentiment shared by most!

    Paul.
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  4. #3
    dsl55's Avatar
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    Alfa have many years of bad press (mostly justified) to shake off and they are trying to do that in many ways. Their dealer network has always been poor but they do seem to be realising that if they want to play in the fleet/mass market that they have to get better.

    I've had a couple of Alfa's and never had a problem with them, not a smidge of rust and in terms of value for money the best I have ever had - although I am talking second hand and not new, 5K for a 5 year old 3 litre V6 2 door coupe capable of serious speed is what i call value!

    I nearly went for a 159 instead of the A3 but the lease price was too high - largely down to the fact the residuals arent yet under control

    PNH has it right in that it's a different philosophy altogether, if you buy and Alfa and expect what you expect from an Audi you'll be disappointed, but delighted in different ways!
    2008 pre facelift 2.0 TDi 140 S-Line A3 Ibis
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    My brother has a spyder, and had a 156 before that. They are lovely cars on the outside, but I don't think I'd buy one. I just prefer the Audi.

  6. #5
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    I love them. Im just not brave enough to buy one.

    My old man had a used 147 and after 3months of constant mechanical and electrical gremlins he gave up and sold it one at a substantial loss.
    2 colleagues have also had timing belts let go, one was 156 GTA the other a 156 20TS.
    Maybe thats not representative, maybe it is.

    I thought long and hard about a 147 GTA before my MK5 Golf, but again, I wasnt brave enough to take the plunge.
    That said, it couldnt have been any more hassle than what the Golf was!

    Im happy with my S3 however as long as Apha continue to make cars as pretty as GTAs, Breras, Gts etc... you can never say never....

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    I love them. Im just not brave enough to buy one.


  8. #7
    sat1983's Avatar
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    The 147 is so relatively cheap and gorgeous. But I must admit that I don't think i could face the depreciation.
    Alfa forum owners say "Brera depreciation is supposed to be about as good as it gets and recent what car articles put the new range on a parallel depreciation curve to Audi and BMW (after the first year)."
    Dunno wether this is true or not- maybe for the Brera but not the other models. Then again my A3 says 51% retained value- the 147 41%.
    I'm no good at maths but with a healthy discount it MAY make financial sense??
    Ex 2006 A3 2.0 TDI owner

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  9. #8
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sat1983 View Post
    The 147 is so relatively cheap and gorgeous. But I must admit that I don't think i could face the depreciation.
    Alfa forum owners say "Brera depreciation is supposed to be about as good as it gets and recent what car articles put the new range on a parallel depreciation curve to Audi and BMW (after the first year)."
    Dunno wether this is true or not- maybe for the Brera but not the other models. Then again my A3 says 51% retained value- the 147 41%.
    I'm no good at maths but with a healthy discount it MAY make financial sense??
    Agree the 147 still looks the dogs.
    Would have to be a GTA though.

  10. #9
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    Pretty cars the current ones are, but I much rather they make another 75. What a sweet car that is.
    World's Fastest S3 Driver - racing old people in toyota camries since 1997 with a 97.6% winning rate.

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    The depreciation would scare me too. I had a top of the range Fiat Stilo (well, the one just below the Abarth) before my first A3 and lost exactly half the value in 2 years. My first A3 retained 72% of its value after three years.

  12. #11
    rodenal's Avatar
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    What were the starting prices tho?
    *Gone* 1997 A3 1.6 facelift headlights, 16"1.8t Alloys, full rear tints. 110k

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    21000 to 10500 for the Stilo and 33000 to 23500 for the A3. Both lost about 10k, but the stilo was 2 years old and the a3 was 3 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsl55 View Post
    Alfa have many years of bad press (mostly justified) to shake off and they are trying to do that in many ways. Their dealer network has always been poor but they do seem to be realising that if they want to play in the fleet/mass market that they have to get better.

    Agree with you here, interesting to see while Alfa are improving their quality and dealer network, Audi are watching theirs freefall into a large vat of cack

  15. #14
    rodenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcQuinlivan View Post
    21000 to 10500 for the Stilo and 33000 to 23500 for the A3. Both lost about 10k, but the stilo was 2 years old and the a3 was 3 years old.
    Was the Stilo petrol tho?

    I understand the point you're making and in this instance there is a difference there.

    however i often find that people tend to just quote and take into account percentages when thinking about depreciation - and not how much the car cost to start with and therefor how much real money it has lost.

    I had a 156 for a few months which i paid about 1500 for with 140,00 miles on it and it was the best car i've owned. Only sold it through sheer paranoia lol
    *Gone* 1997 A3 1.6 facelift headlights, 16"1.8t Alloys, full rear tints. 110k

    You built a time machine.........out of a delorean!?!?!

  16. #15
    SteveTDCi's Avatar
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    I wanted one but had no dealer... 3 days after buying the A3 I received a letter saying Peterborough now has a dealer. I love the 159 and perhaps one day I will have one, depreciation doesn't come into it, I would only ever buy used and from then on the drop isn't that bad, never look at the retained % always look at how many 's you will lose.

    Oh and the 147 is going to be replaced soon, its based on the current Fiat bravo.
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  17. #16
    rodenal's Avatar
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    I really like the look of the new bravo

    however

    the one i was in (hire car) was falling apart inside - worrying - and had the most frustrating pedal layout i have ever encountered. There was nowhere to rest your foot beside the clutch!!!!! i mean in a car that size where you might be doing reasonably long distances that should be a no brainer.

    on the plus side it drove well and was quiet enough.
    *Gone* 1997 A3 1.6 facelift headlights, 16"1.8t Alloys, full rear tints. 110k

    You built a time machine.........out of a delorean!?!?!

  18. #17
    windsurfer

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    before my S3 I had a look to on the 147 GTA, I like Alfas and already had a trouble free one some for me is a brand I don't need to be brave. Very nice drives Alfa!

    I know a replacement for the 147 is coming on the way so the GTA would take longer to get. Mind you that 147 GTA version is no longer available and was available only on pre facelift models!! Makes them more exclusive....

    So that was it... a 147 GTA with Autodelta touch, OMG!!!!

    Alfa vs Audi

    Alfa has the style, the drive, the charisma, passion.
    Audi has the quality, resale value, german image, function.

    Because unlike most of you I reaaly don't care about resale values, I buy the car I want to drive, I don't need to be brave to buy an Alfa. At the time of buy there wasn't an option for what I wanted in Alfa Romeo. Like if it was today Audi did not had an car for me... well maybe the TT-S... If I was buying a new car today the facelift S3 would not be the one... A3 soon to be replaced by a new model...

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  19. #18
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    I’ve had a couple of Alfa’s prior to my A3 and have had no problems with either. My first was a MY03 156 2.4JTD and second was a GT. Both were based on the same platform but the GT felt almost VW in terms of build compared to the GT so they are improving.

    The real difference has been highlighted above already. Audi’s are very functional and very clinical. Alfa’s are very passionate and provide a greater feel to driving.
    Residuals are supposed to be improving, a GT has similar if not better residuals to an A3.

    However, it seems that the latest cars have lost a bit of their Alfa-ness in pursuit of becoming more like Audi, which I guess says it all!!

    Regards

    Rob
    A3 8P Sportback - 3.2 Quattro - DSG - S Line - Leather - RNSe - Bose - Heated Seats - Rear Parking Aid - Cruise - ILP - Moro Pearl Blue

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodenal View Post
    Was the Stilo petrol tho?

    I understand the point you're making and in this instance there is a difference there.

    however i often find that people tend to just quote and take into account percentages when thinking about depreciation - and not how much the car cost to start with and therefor how much real money it has lost.
    Yes, it was a petrol. Although it was the top of the line 1.6 model with all the bells and whistles. Most buyers were interested in the base 1.2 model for tax and insurance reasons, so I'm sure that had an impact on the residuals too. The Fiat dealer offered me 7k for it as a trade in. The Audi dealer was offering 9k against the A3. I managed to do a private sale for 10.5k in the end and get a cash discount on the A3 so saved about 5 grand in total on the car.

    I don't really take into account the percentages and depreciation, etc. - I am usually interested in the "cost to change" and the cash price.

  21. #20
    Splathead's Avatar
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    I only have one month of Alfa ownership to go before my S3 turns up.

    I bought an 8 month old 147GTA back in April 2005 and I have racked up 45000 trouble-free miles (with the exception of a clutch slave cylinder -fixed on the third attempt under warranty.......)

    I have loved every second of the owership - the looks, the sound the driving experience and gnerally, just having something a little bit different.

    However, now it comes time to sell it and I really am pulling my hair out. The trade-in value against my S3 is peanuts and I have already had to drop the price by 2.5k just to get people interested (I blame the goverment for the tax situation).

    So, if anyone in this thread is seriously thinking about taking a punt, then my car an be found at http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/356971.htm
    Present - 8V S3 3 Door S3 S-Tronic. Estoril Blue, LED Headlights, Super Sports Seats, Technology Pack, Folding & Dimming Mirrors, Interior Light Pack, Bang & Olufsen, Comfort Pack with Cruise Control & Rear Parking Sensors, Reversible Boot Liner, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Non Smoking Pack, Hold Assist

    Past "Highlights" - 2008 S3 (8P2), 2004 Alfa 147GTa, 1999 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo LE, 1994 Astra GSi 16v

  22. #21
    sat1983's Avatar
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    Sat in a 147 & Brera today and both felt rock solid. Great dash, soft touch plastics and that wonderful smell of new leather. Seats were extremely comfortable too.
    I love the styling of both and to be honest I am very tempted to swap Audi ownership for Alfa ownership come September time. It really is that depreciation problem putting me off.
    Off course Mr Alfa salesman said that Alfa was only just behind Audi in term of residual values. Yeah right.
    Ex 2006 A3 2.0 TDI owner

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  23. #22
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splathead View Post
    I only have one month of Alfa ownership to go before my S3 turns up.

    I bought an 8 month old 147GTA back in April 2005 and I have racked up 45000 trouble-free miles (with the exception of a clutch slave cylinder -fixed on the third attempt under warranty.......)

    I have loved every second of the owership - the looks, the sound the driving experience and gnerally, just having something a little bit different.

    However, now it comes time to sell it and I really am pulling my hair out. The trade-in value against my S3 is peanuts and I have already had to drop the price by 2.5k just to get people interested (I blame the goverment for the tax situation).

    So, if anyone in this thread is seriously thinking about taking a punt, then my car an be found at http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/356971.htm
    Lovely car, sort of regret Ive never taken the plunge and had one.

    Maybe the 147 will get the GTA treatment???
    defo future buy!

  24. #23
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    I think the 147 is being run out because a new model is just around the corner.

    I've a little experience of all this because the 159 was my first choice when I decided to chop in the A3. I went over to the Alfa dealers and their price (and brokers) was on a par with other cars in that bracket so I guess the residuals have improved greatly. The car in the showroom was the actual one I would have had. 1.9JTDM Lusso in Alfa Red. It was lovely. From there I looked at Honda, Saab, Ford, Lexus, Volvo. By the time it came around to test drives I'd sort of dropped the idea of the Alfa because I could get more car for the money from elsewhere but when I did walk back into the Alfa showroom my jaw dropped again. The car is just gorgeous. On closer inspection the interior was poor, everything looked a little rough around the edges and the one I took out had no syncromesh because they'd had to pinch it to put on another car.

    I think it's still a case of 'close but no cigar' for Alfa Romeo. But they still turn my head every time I see one.


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  25. #24
    sat1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1068 View Post
    On closer inspection the interior was poor, everything looked a little rough around the edges.
    I can honestly say this isn't what I noticed. I was actually really surprised how solid and well finished it was- as opposed to a mini or even a 1 series.
    Ex 2006 A3 2.0 TDI owner

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  26. #25
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    I came very, very close to a 159ti, beautiful motor.
    If I hadn't been able to get a D3, I'd have one now.
    The way I look at it, Alfa are now pretty close to Audi build quality and materials.
    Close enough for me not to care, anyway.

    IMO, there is no real comparison to be made anyway, as they offer two completely different products.
    Audi offer well built, but intensely dull (I've owned two, I feel I'm qualified to say this) cars.
    I got zero driving joy from my A4 or A3 and I certainly didn't get much pleasure looking at them in the carpark/driveway either.
    Alfa build cars for people to enjoy looking at and driving.
    Real 'feel good' cars, which I always found missing with Audi.
    I get that feel good factor with the D3 too, it makes me grin.
    I'd had enough of cars that transported you in an efficient manner, I wanted some fun.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 5th June 2008 at 10:01.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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  27. #26
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    I loved and still love the alfa 147gta!!!! i wanted one but instead ended up buying a vauxhall vx220, probs cus i couldnt afford the alfa, but have now got my bright orange s3 and am lovin it!!!!!

    maybe sometime in the near future i may decide to buy the crazy alfa but not yet

  28. #27
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    147 replacement will, unsurprisingly, be called the 149.
    Artist's impression below.

    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
    '05 to '08 - Akoya Silver A3 sportback S-line DSG
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  29. #28
    sat1983's Avatar
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    Very nice Bowfer. How does the front end look?
    Ex 2006 A3 2.0 TDI owner

    2010 Polo GTI 6R

  30. #29
    rich1068's Avatar
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    He hasn't drawn it yet.


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  31. #30
    sat1983's Avatar
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    A few ones here it seems:
    http://www.infomotori.co.uk/a_ENG_17436_1.html

    Bound to be a belter.
    Ex 2006 A3 2.0 TDI owner

    2010 Polo GTI 6R

 

 

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