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  1. #1
    Low life livin' the high life.

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    How quick is the 2.0TFSI Quattro??

    Fellas...

    I was quite bored and somewhat hung over yesterday afternoon and decided to watch endless repeats of Top Gear on 'Dave'.

    On one particular show they were doing a hot hatch track test. The cars involved were the Golf GTI, Megan Sport 225, Civic Type R, Astra VXR etc...The usual suspects basically.
    Clarkson was in no doubt at all that taking everything into account, the Golf GTI was the best car (despite being the most expensive by some distance)and it held it's own on the track along side the Type R. They absolutely loved the 2.0TFSI engine. In Clarkson's words... "this car is an absolute sensation"

    Obviously the Audi A3 2.0TFSI quattro S-Line is a far more expensive car than even the Golf GTI so maybe priced slightly out of this particular test. It's basically the same car as a Golf GTI, maybe tweaked to give more of an 'exec' feel and less hot hatch appeal so my question is....

    Around a track, if in that test, where do you expect the A3 quattro to come? Yes it's heavier than the golf due to the quattro but would the Haldex aid the car through cornering giving a faster overall time?
    OR....Is the A3 S-Line just not a track car and would it be a bit out of it's depth against true blooded hot hatches like the Type R??

    It just got me thinking because even though it is a hot hatch in a business suit, i've never seen the A3 tested against other similar cars or even put around a track.
    So what do you guys recon?

    Cheers.

    Paul.
    A3 2.0T FSI Quattro S-Line, 3 Door, Avus Silver (special ed.)

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  3. #2
    Spin140's Avatar
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    If we are to believe all that we read in various motoring mags the A3 is supposed to feel like a totally different car to drive even though it shares the majority of the GTi's suspension components with the Golf being the more directional of the 2. I'm not sure which would fair best but track/weather conditions would definetly have an impact as would the extra weight of the quattro system.

    I've had a GTi and loved it but would prefer the A3 in the same format on a looks/image perspective, hopefully someone who has owned both cars can give an un-biased opinion, I agree that they are excluded from the tests due to price.

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  4. #3
    Low life livin' the high life.

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    lol Yeah but it's an interesting thought. Does the quattro REALLY aid the car or are you actually losing something?
    Also, the A3 has a lower centre of gravity. It's quite a bit lower than than the Golf (floor to roof height), that combined with quattro....does it make a better handling car? Or is the A3 just too soft and heavy in comparison?

    Like you say....hopefully some one has owned both...
    A3 2.0T FSI Quattro S-Line, 3 Door, Avus Silver (special ed.)

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  5. #4
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    I dont know what the Golf GTI weighs but my 2.0TFSI quattro weighed in at 1576kg so it wasnt a light car. It was fast off the line but when you got up to 60+mph and went to boot it the weight and awd seemed to hold it back somewhat in fact it was exactly the same speed as an 06 Focus Titanium 2.0TDCI (140bhp) from 60-100 mph, it didnt matter what gear I tried accelerating from that speed the focus would be stuck to my arse or me stuck to his all the way up to 100mph. I would think the golf would pull away at those speeds on a straight.

    I would put my money on the golf on a track, the golf has no awd but it can put the power down very well and is lighter.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  6. #5
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    I have driven both and imo the golf is quicker and sharper . Personally I prefer Audi but it really is not the same car at all.
    I was a bit underwhelmed with the A3 I borrowed to be honest and did try it back to back against the edition 30 golf (230PS) but the golf felt MUCH faster.
    I do know that the ed 30 has the detuned S3 engine in it before anyone chimes in!...
    If I had a budget on say 22/24 K it would be the golf ED30 I am afraid!...
    Having said that, a second hand S3 is altogether better than both...
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  7. #6
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    I had mine cruising at 100mph today, and when the road became empty, i floored it and it pulled strongly all the way to 145mph (indicated). I have no complaints!!
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  8. #7
    Low life livin' the high life.

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    Yeah pretty much as i thought...the Golf is a more focused, performance orientated car. I take it the edition 30 golf has exactly the same engine as the Leon Cupra R? No doubt it's a better drivers car but overall quality of car i'd take the Audi. Lets not forget.... Golf = Built in South America, Audi A3 = Built in Ingolstadt, Germany. So it's not as thought the money isn't spent somewhere.
    A3 2.0T FSI Quattro S-Line, 3 Door, Avus Silver (special ed.)

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  9. #8
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    I have the exact same car as yourself but i have bluefin fitted and i think the car is plenty quick enough, power always there when required and just keeps pulling thru the gears up to 147 mph
    Last edited by jordychris; 2nd June 2008 at 20:28.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The911SC View Post
    I have driven both and imo the golf is quicker and sharper . Personally I prefer Audi but it really is not the same car at all.
    I was a bit underwhelmed with the A3 I borrowed to be honest and did try it back to back against the edition 30 golf (230PS) but the golf felt MUCH faster.
    I do know that the ed 30 has the detuned S3 engine in it before anyone chimes in!...
    If I had a budget on say 22/24 K it would be the golf ED30 I am afraid!...
    Having said that, a second hand S3 is altogether better than both...
    I would take the 2.0T Quattro over the ED30, if I just simply wanted a fast car I got plenty of other choices. The looks and interior plays a big part for me and imo the A3 looks so much classier, the interior quality of the A3 and the sheer amounts of options with trims and materials eclipses the Golf.

  11. #10
    Spin140's Avatar
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    Can't believe you lot speed, it's illegal you know ?1?
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  12. #11
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    i doubt in the dry a quattro would be faster, maybe there would be an improvement off the line but not massively

    In the wet, different matter

  13. #12
    EAGLE79's Avatar
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    Why not put it up against the Front wheel drive only 2.0TFSI Audi A3? Then you don't have to worry about the AWD slowing/ weighing it down! Same engine as well.

    Just a thought
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  14. #13
    Beddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    Lets not forget.... Golf = Built in South America, Audi A3 = Built in Ingolstadt, Germany.
    GTI's are built in Wolfsburg by ze joymans...
    My old one was born in the fatherland just like all the others and yeah the extra cash in the A3 does get you a much nicer fit and finish but the Golf is waaaaay more fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin140 View Post
    Can't believe you lot speed, it's illegal you know ?1?
    Not over where I live in the Fatherland ....on the Autobahn.....
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  16. #15
    Vtec Abuser's Avatar
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    Was just about to say that mine was built by ze Germans..


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    Not sure about an A3 TFSI but I did drive a GTI prior to buy my 3.2 and massively underwhelmed. Although I'm sure it was quick it just didn't feel it, on the straight or in the bends, and that with the salesmen encouraging me to try a bit harder . In fact the Alfa GT I had at the time felt just as quick all round as the GTi.

    Given all the writes ups I'd read it was a bit disappointing.

    Regards

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  18. #17
    On Boost

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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    I take it the edition 30 golf has exactly the same engine as the Leon Cupra R? No doubt it's a better drivers car but overall quality of car i'd take the Audi.
    Yeah , but i deffo wouldn't say the ED 30 is the better drivers car , the Cupra is a fantastic car/drive for the money.

    p

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLE79 View Post
    Why not put it up against the Front wheel drive only 2.0TFSI Audi A3? Then you don't have to worry about the AWD slowing/ weighing it down! Same engine as well.

    Just a thought
    I know what you're saying but my interest was whether a similar set-up would be a bit quicker around a track with 4WD. For example would an S3 with only FWD be quicker or does the Haldex really serve a purpose in bettering the overall handling?
    I'll be honest, i wouldn't want an Audi without 4WD because i think it defines the car and it's history. I'd probably rather have a well spec'd GTI than a basic FWD A3 2.0TFSI.
    I love my 2.0TFSI quattro S-Line. It really is a car for all purposes. Feels like well planted hot hatch with 4WD....but doesn't look like one. It's the only car to my knowledge which achieves that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beddie View Post
    GTI's are built in Wolfsburg by ze joymans...
    My old one was born in the fatherland just like all the others and yeah the extra cash in the A3 does get you a much nicer fit and finish but the Golf is waaaaay more fun
    Sorry, no idea where i got the South American thing from!
    A3 2.0T FSI Quattro S-Line, 3 Door, Avus Silver (special ed.)

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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom View Post
    Yeah , but i deffo wouldn't say the ED 30 is the better drivers car , the Cupra is a fantastic car/drive for the money.

    p
    Saw a Cupra R on my road the other day....White with black wheels and mirrors. Probably not where i'd spend my money but looked fantastic.
    A3 2.0T FSI Quattro S-Line, 3 Door, Avus Silver (special ed.)

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  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Sharp View Post
    Not over where I live in the Fatherland ....on the Autobahn.....

    So you drive a 57 plate a3 even though you live in the father land... Hmmm
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  22. #21
    s3boost's Avatar
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    Iv had my S-line now for a gud few months now, i bought the Quattro version specifically with the intention of tuning the motor, with over 300BHP eventually.
    Having run it standard for a while, i was pretty happy with the performance but it deffo wasnt a HOT hatch. Handling in standard guise, the car sticks to the road like glue, it can corner at very high speeds without any problems, similar situation in the wet, except my tyres arent the best so slides can be provoked. The car simply doesnt have the power to break traction, very safe would be a good way to put it.
    Now i have my car re-mapped at JBS custom code, the car really justifies having Quattro. Cornering now can bring on understeer when pushing hard, and oversteer when backing off. Also the car can break traction when launching hard with traction control off.
    It feels very like my R32 Golf I owned, but it is needs lowering because i think it rolls quite a bit when cornering.
    S3 turbo soon i hope!

  23. #22
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    what about the 2.0t without the quattro?
    front wheels would be quicker.
    four wheels your loosing power cause the power is dispersed over four wheels instead of two.

    unless you are running serious power like 300bhp as said above

  24. #23
    The911SC's Avatar
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    Haldex based quattro actually does not cause drag but the 2wd condtions permitting is lighter and can be faster (especially noticeable in the old mk1 TT)... so, haldex quattro is actually 2wd until its needed.
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by The911SC View Post
    Haldex based quattro actually does not cause drag but the 2wd condtions permitting is lighter and can be faster (especially noticeable in the old mk1 TT)... so, haldex quattro is actually 2wd until its needed.
    Of course it causes extra drag, the car is carrying an extra 90kg over the fwd and turning the prop shaft, haldex unit and extra drive shafts. It also isnt 2wd until its needed(please search if you dont believe me its been explained many many times before).
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by s3boost View Post
    Iv had my S-line now for a gud few months now, i bought the Quattro version specifically with the intention of tuning the motor, with over 300BHP eventually.
    Having run it standard for a while, i was pretty happy with the performance but it deffo wasnt a HOT hatch. Handling in standard guise, the car sticks to the road like glue, it can corner at very high speeds without any problems, similar situation in the wet, except my tyres arent the best so slides can be provoked. The car simply doesnt have the power to break traction, very safe would be a good way to put it.
    Now i have my car re-mapped at JBS custom code, the car really justifies having Quattro. Cornering now can bring on understeer when pushing hard, and oversteer when backing off. Also the car can break traction when launching hard with traction control off.
    It feels very like my R32 Golf I owned, but it is needs lowering because i think it rolls quite a bit when cornering.
    S3 turbo soon i hope!
    Wouldn't it make more sense to sell the 2.0T and get an S3? Modding the 2.0T will just de-value it, you can prolly pick up a nice 2nd hand S3 for 24k.

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by siu00adg View Post
    Wouldn't it make more sense to sell the 2.0T and get an S3? Modding the 2.0T will just de-value it, you can prolly pick up a nice 2nd hand S3 for 24k.
    Got to agree with this. The S3 starts with a stronger engine block/internals, bigger turbo, injectors and larger brakes.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandle View Post
    Of course it causes extra drag, the car is carrying an extra 90kg over the fwd and turning the prop shaft, haldex unit and extra drive shafts. It also isnt 2wd until its needed(please search if you dont believe me its been explained many many times before).
    Am I misreading or are you boys getting confused over when it's 2wd/AWD?

    Haldex - FWD until conditions require the power to be pushed back.

    J.
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  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde View Post
    Am I misreading or are you boys getting confused over when it's 2wd/AWD?

    Haldex - FWD until conditions require the power to be pushed back.

    J.
    Im not confused by it at all, just people keep saying its 2wd until needed and thats not the way the system works.
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  30. #29
    windsurfer

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    exactly... there is always torque sent to the rear wheels... what happens is that the system senses traction lost in the front it shifts more torque to a maximum of 50% to the rear wheels... but there is always torque being sent to the rears.... Otherwise we would have wheelspin at the front everytime we lost traction and haldez responded... which is not the case!!!

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  31. #30
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    I think the thing that makes people think that its FWD until it breaks traction is the bit on the haldex website that refers to it needing only a small about of slip until the rear is engaged. I beleive that this is only the case under a standing start, and once you're moving haldex is constantly varying the torque sent backwards between 0 and 50%. Most of the time it is greater than 0%.

    I beleive there are conditions under which it is purely FWD, and those are generally when you have lifted completely off the throttle or have the handbrake on.

    If it did only send power backwards when the fronts broke traction then it would never actually send torque backward because the esp stops wheelspin, unless you had the esp switched off.

    Maybe the early haldex systems were not as sophisticated??
    Last edited by julians; 4th June 2008 at 17:45.

  32. #31
    windsurfer

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    yes julians... lift the throtlle and the system disengages....

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

 

 

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