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  1. #1
    RC
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    GIAC Re-map differences???

    Hi,

    I know the subject of re-mapping has been covered many times within this forum and I don't want to get into any kind of debate over 'should' or 'shouldn't' you??

    My question is regarding two of the main software promoters - GIAC and Bluefin.

    I have a 2008 S3, which once run in, was re-mapped using the portable bluefin handset.

    This map, I felt, provided excellent, all round boost and acceleration, irrelevant of speed or gear - I could be on the motorway, doing 60 in 6th, put my foot down and the car would 'take off' with no hesitation or 'lag' and continue pressing me back into the seat ...... on and on!

    Being the greedy bugger I probably am though, when I read the reviews regarding GIAC's new 330bhp Hammer map making the bluefin feel like 'stock' I thought hmmmm, I'm going to have to have a slice of that!

    As I'm mid Cheshire, I made an appointment with Steve Jnr at Statller and after changing the car back to stock, headed on over to Sheffield.

    The day was most informative and Steve was an excellent source of information regarding the make up of my car and the science of re-mapping.

    He took me out for the customary test drive and from the passenger seat, the car felt quick!!

    We pulled over, swapped seats..... I pulled on the fingerless driving gloves and off we went, eagerly anticipating the effect of 20 more horses.

    My first thoughts were..... Hmmm it does feel fast - but faster than the Bluefin?? Not sure!!

    I settled up with Steve and set off home (the 60 mile test run).

    If I'm honest, my general impression was that of - slight disappointment!

    Overall, the car did feel fast, however, it lacked some of the exhilarating urgency, I felt with the Bluefin.

    irrespective of gear or speed, there was unfamiliar lag when accelerating at less than 3000 rpm (Dare I say.. possibly a tad more than in 'stock').

    Don't get me wrong, once moving (above 3000rpm), the car felt strong through the gears and onwards, it just seemed to lack that immediate and satisfying knee in the back low down boost.

    After a couple of weeks I emailed steve with my observations and he was genuinely mortified at my disappointment, even offering to travel over to Cheshire to have a look, saving me the inconvenience of a return trip over the moors (Steve, you're a top bloke!!)

    I did, however, decide to kill two birds with one stone - Return to Sheffield - Have Steve look at the map and ECU - then have a nice new Milltek Cat Back fitted.

    Steve carried out a bag full of diagnostic checks, re flashed, then downloaded a fresh version of the Hammer to the ECU.

    Out for another series of test drives and.... - From standing, the car felt awesome through the gears, but again, during normal, road speed acceleration, there were signs of lag under 3000 rpm.

    Steve has obviously mapped many cars with the GIAC software and other customers have experienced massive gains throughout the rev range.
    He has offered to take further readings and send them directly to GIAC for a more customised map, but we both decided to run the car for a few more miles before making that decision.

    So, thoughts at the moment - only 2500 miles on the clock - Maybe it will improve with age??

    Another - possibly revert to the Bluefin??

    My question to you all would be - has anyone else any experience, thoughts, comparisons or advice regarding getting the best out of this lovely engine??


    I would also mention and fully recommend Statller in Sheffield - Great service with helpful advice and support!!!

    Cheers,

    Rob

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  3. #2
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    Hiya mate, i'am still Std at the moment , but i will be getting a remap sooner or later, i think theres four members with the GIAC Hammer map , one of them will be on soon to give there opinion on the lag issue.

    Maybe the Bluefin is just a more aggressive remap? GIAC are known for there smooth , stock like remaps!

    On a recent RR day the Hammer map didn't really make anymore then the Std Revo remap......maybe you're expectations are too high?

    p

  4. #3
    RWD sucks!

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    When I had the APR software (it was 3 days only), I could feel the car being quicker, it felt better overall, but on the other hand, there seemed also to be a little more LAG....I had the misfire problem on higher revs, but in general, the remap seemed to be less than I expected. Dont get me wrong, it was a quick car, but I thought the remap would be much more radical, as remapping a regular 2.0t for example (where the car changes from smooth to a tire-burning beast in the lower gears).

    I am about to try a remap by an italian company named Dimsport.....if anyone has any experience, I am glad to hear it!



  5. #4
    warren_S5's Avatar
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    The point you raise is a really valid one, and interestingly most of the people who have remaps will tell you theirs is bigger, better, faster, torquier etc...

    Problem is there is a tendency to think "I've spent x00 so if I don't say there is a big difference I will look like a nonce"

    I had an MTM map which was a grand. Now ECU's go through an adaptation period whilst hey adjust to new fuel / maps / mods etc., so from day 1 you won't always feel the immediate benefit. However the MTM map never really felt any different to stock, so in the end I got rid and went Revo as I had used them for 3 cars previously. I was astonished as the guy who runs MTM in Germany worked for Quattro division for 25 years so you'd expect it to be good.

    Also if you a map is over the top, it impacts other things (inlet temps). I ran a stage 2 Leon Cupra R, and I had full Milltek, CAI, uprated pipes, Iridium plugs, uprated DV and yet it didn't feel that quick. Problem was with the aggressive map the inlet temps had risen over 10 degrees. I added a Forge intercooler and this dropped the inlet temps significantly increasing the urgency of the acceleration and top end pull.

    The fuel pump in the S3 is at its limits with a map which is an issue. I am holding back until April 09 until I do any major mods, but want to do full Milltek, downpipe, Forge twintercooler, and uprated fuel pump as without the full compliment of mods you can actually be creating other issues which work against you and put you back where you started from.

    I personally have always heard mixed reviews of Bluefin depending on what car its loaded on, so its interesting to hear how well you feel this fairs against the hammer map. GIAC stuff is usually very highly regarded, so it sounds like the Bluefin product is very good. I suppose at the end of the day code is code; these cars are running pretty much at the limits of capability, and a few BHP here and there make very little difference. Its more about the torque which seems to be stronger in the mapped cars, but at higher levels with more initial lag.

    To me what is important is that I imperatively trust the remap company:
    a) to do a good job
    b) to offer great aftercare

    Revo have always done both for me hence why I stay there (+ they offer the select module)
    Audi S5 3.0V6T Coupe Black Edition

  6. #5
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    Hey

    When I had my s3 I had the GIAC 310 map plus an intake and full turbo back exhaust..

    The car was quick but never felt as 'rapid' as my GTI that I used to have (revo map) I put this down to the GIAC maps being extremely progressive, which in the long term is going to be much kinder on the drivetrain i guess..

    I have now bought my s3 back and after sending it for its first service the helpful people at Audi wiped the GIAC map with there new software update (without contacting me before hand) so I have to get it put back on again..

    Im going with the 310 map again as from what I have heard the 330 map is designed specifically for a car with standard hardware..

    Personally Im surprised that you went for the cat-back, which makes pretty much zero difference to performance, the downpipe is a different matter!

    I would get the downpipe and go back to the 310 map, sure you will be pretty pleased with the results!!

    Im going to Statller too this weekend hopefully, really relieved to hear that you had a great experience there.. I worry about taking my car somewhere where I havnt been before!

    Ill let you know how it feels if I manage to get it done this weekend!

    Jonny
    MK5 ED30.. Fastest MK5 / 2.0T FSI in the UK - Fastest DSG MK5 in the world!

    12.601 @ 115.85 MPH

  7. #6
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    Thanks for the replies guys.

    I think it certainly proves there are noticeable differences between the various map manufacturers.

    It seems different products offer different strengths and possible (small) weaknesses.

    I would still recommend the GIAC map, as it is, I feel, solid and well researched software.

    I know it sounds like a contradiction, but I also like the idea of it being a touch friendlier to the engine.

    I suppose there IS only so much you can squeeze out of this car, but at the end of the day, it IS still a quick car and provides a good, solid drive which will make you smile, if not laugh and shriek hysterically!!


    R

  8. #7
    Spin140's Avatar
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    I wouldn't have expected to notice much of a difference between the Bluefin and GIAC as both are highly rated by the majority. I opted for GIAC for many of the reasons mentioned especially the stock like power delivery, I think the standard S3 is already slightly 'laggy' below 3,000 and perhaps the extra ooomphh beyond this rev range once mapped just highlights it, when I mention lag its not like turbo's of old just not as urgent as one would like but we have to remember this is a 2.0l lump with a pretty big blower on it so some initial lag should be acceptable.

    Try not to get caught up in the headline figures and just enjoy the map for its enhanced power and driveability.

    I'm pleased to see that Statllers service remains constant - an excellent, family run company.

    Spin
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  9. #8
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    Yes, you're probably right!!

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin140 View Post
    I think the standard S3 is already slightly 'laggy' below 3,000 and perhaps the extra ooomphh beyond this rev range once mapped just highlights it
    That's pretty much how i see it, it's almost as if its a stock car up to 3000 rpm and remapped thereafter. As much as i'd like instant boost through out the range i accept there has to be a compromise. That said, i personally don't notice the lag any more, i think i've just got used to how the car drives best at any given speed and drive accordingly. Above 3000 rpm it still puts a grin on my face every time i floor it.
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  11. #10
    Spin140's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    That's pretty much how i see it, it's almost as if its a stock car up to 3000 rpm and remapped thereafter. As much as i'd like instant boost through out the range i accept there has to be a compromise. That said, i personally don't notice the lag any more, i think i've just got used to how the car drives best at any given speed and drive accordingly. Above 3000 rpm it still puts a grin on my face every time i floor it.
    Agree with all above, everyday the car manages to surprise me with its incredible pace, a very user-friendly stealth car.
    Wife - 12 BMW 320D 181 bhp, 8 Speed Auto, Melbourne Red, Heated Leather, privacy.
    10 S3 SB, Phantom, Buckets,Int light Pack, Privacy. (Sold)
    Golf GTi MK6 - Revo stage 2, ITG, Milltek Race TBE, AP Racing 4 pot BBK - Sold.
    10 S3 SB, Phantom, Buckets,Int light Pack, Privacy,Nav, Park sensors, 6 disc, Revo Stage 1, ITG Enclosed Intake - Sold
    BMW M135i F20 - Bloody good straight from the box !

    "Fast Cars are Safer...."

  12. #11
    warren_S5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    That's pretty much how i see it, it's almost as if its a stock car up to 3000 rpm and remapped thereafter.
    Your absolutely right. The MTM map retains stock characteristics until around 3,000rpm and is enhanced beyond that. Supposedly there is not any point doing anything before that range as the turbo hasn't kicked in anyway. Keeps take off far more OE spec.
    Audi S5 3.0V6T Coupe Black Edition

 

 

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