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  1. #1
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    Have I been flogged a 140TDI instead of a 170TDI?

    Guys,

    Need you advice if poss.

    I bought what I think is a new 170TDI A3 S-Line Sportback about month ago and everything has been fine until now. However I have been driving a Golf GT-TDI company pool car recently which I think is a 140TDI as the tail pipes are not visible, i.e. they point down and are not visible behind the rear bumper. The reason I am concerned is that performance of this car is as good if not better than my Audi! Admittedly it has done more miles (about 6k as opposed to 2k) but even then that wouldn't make much difference. I would expect a 170 to be much quicker.

    I have looked on the audi used car website and you can see that the newer 140 tdi's look exactly the same as the 170's, they even have chrome tailpipes! So it's impossible externally to tell the difference (nice one audi).

    My concern is - have I been wrongly flogged a 140TDI instead of the 170TDI which I paid for!? Sounds ridiculous but I think it is a possibility. I didn't test drive one as I used to own a 1.9tdi audi and I needed the car quickly.

    What concerns me even more is that the guy at the audi dealership who sold the car to me was adamant that the 140tdi did not have the chorme tailpipes! He was either lying or did not know, which is even more worrying.

    Is there any way of checking with the engine bay etc... Any advice would be appreciated, I have checked on insurance websites but they just re-iterate the registration document that audi prepared, so even if it was a 140 it was registered as a 170....

    Cheers

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  3. #2
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    get your VIN number and ask at the dealer

  4. #3
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    I can't comment on your car although it would be unbelievable if the salesman HAD sold you a different car! But surely the logbook etc should all tie through? Have the chassis number checked out.
    Car salesmen by large are muppets and liars who really shouldn't be handling deals of that value. My mate just bought a used Golf GT-TDI from an authorised VW dealer and the sales manager wouldn't negotiate any more than a 1/4 tank of petrol. Told him that it was a gentlemans agreement between them and the local Audi dealer that they never supplied more than a 1/4 tank with any car. I know this is complete bo***cks because a 1/2 tank with every car is Audi company policy.
    This may not seem a big deal but i just can't stand liars...and from a manager it outrageous!
    A3 2.0T FSI Quattro S-Line, 3 Door, Avus Silver (special ed.)

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  5. #4
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    Look in your manual/handbook/under the bonnet (can't remember where it's stated).
    If you see '103KW', you have a 140.
    If you see '125KW', you have a 170.

    FWIW, my 140 had twin tailpipes which pointed down.
    But mine was an '05.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 13th March 2008 at 13:07.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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  6. #5
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    Your handbook will have a sticker in it giving the cars build status. Look for 103kw or 125kw. These are the output figures for the 140 and 170 respectively
    A3 2.0TDI Sportback S Line 184 Quattro S-Tronic, Mar. 2014 Glacier white. Electric seats, sunroof, se suspension, heated folding mirrors, Reversing camera, Nappa leather, TPMS, Hold assist, Xenon plus adaptive lights with variable active range control, lane assist, Interior light pack, Technology pack, Comfort pack with ACC, park assist & parking system plus

  7. #6
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    I don't have a TDI so I can't speak from experience, but I have seen many comments that the TDI 170 delivers its power over a much wider rev range so it won't give you the 'push in the back' that 140 does.

    Something you see more and more on newer engine designs: The engines and especially the turbos are becoming more refined and, although they deliver more power and torque, they don't feel that way because the power builds up gradually starting at pretty low revs instead of releasing everything at once at higher revs (which gives the push in the back). They don't feel faster but the are! (Just wait until you pass a speed camera ....)
    A3 sportback 2.0FSI sport, mauritius blue, proline, alu, interior light pack, rain&light sensor, cruise.

  8. #7
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    Check V5? tax disc?

  9. #8
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    Vauxhall sold my mates mum a Corsa 1.2 but when the V5 came through it clearly stated the car was a Vauxhall Calibra Turbo 4x4 1.2. Work that out as we were stumped. VIN and registration mark were all correct.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80 View Post
    I can't comment on your car although it would be unbelievable if the salesman HAD sold you a different car! But surely the logbook etc should all tie through? Have the chassis number checked out.
    Car salesmen by large are muppets and liars who really shouldn't be handling deals of that value. My mate just bought a used Golf GT-TDI from an authorised VW dealer and the sales manager wouldn't negotiate any more than a 1/4 tank of petrol. Told him that it was a gentlemans agreement between them and the local Audi dealer that they never supplied more than a 1/4 tank with any car. I know this is complete bo***cks because a 1/2 tank with every car is Audi company policy.
    This may not seem a big deal but i just can't stand liars...and from a manager it outrageous!
    Thats dealer ******** for you, I got a full tank of diesel.
    I would expect 50 quids worth of diesel when spending close to 28k
    Chris

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  11. #10
    Low life livin' the high life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro View Post
    Thats dealer ******** for you, I got a full tank of diesel.
    I would expect 50 quids worth of diesel when spending close to 28k
    Well i bought mine 3 weeks ago (Audi owned demo car - 07 with 6K on the clock) and Audi gave me a respectable discount, full tank of petrol, a years tax, RAC cover for 3 years and threw in some rubber mats without too much negotiation... So it surprised me when VW refused point blank to give anything away, like a TDI Golf is a rare car?!! Must have been a good month!
    A3 2.0T FSI Quattro S-Line, 3 Door, Avus Silver (special ed.)

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    S-Line gear knob, stick and gator.
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  12. #11
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    not having a 170 I may be totally wrong but

    Is it true all 170's have the DPF? and all 140's don't?

    If so, where the heck is the DPF? If you can see it wouldnt that indicate it was a 170?

  13. #12
    Look in your manual/handbook/under the bonnet (can't remember where it's stated).
    If you see '103KW', you have a 140.
    If you see '125KW', you have a 170.
    As Bowfer says the best way to check is to look at the vehicle identification sticker, There should be a sticker on the inside cover of the Service Book and another under the mat in the luggage compartment. There is also a metal plate on the panel at the windscreen end of the engine compartment. In each case the 4th line down with say either 103KW or 125KW.

    On the same sticker and plate, at the beginning of the 5th line down will be a 3 digit code - this is the engine code. Tell us what this is and I will be able to confirm the type of engine.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  14. #13
    Is it true all 170's have the DPF? and all 140's don't?

    If so, where the heck is the DPF? If you can see it wouldnt that indicate it was a 170?
    That's quite true for the UK. There are 140s with a DPF in other markets, in particular Germany.

    The problem is that the DPF is at the manifold end of the exhaust system. Having just had a look under my bonnet, there are various bits of heat shielding in that area which means you cannot see it.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    That's quite true for the UK. There are 140s with a DPF in other markets, in particular Germany.

    The problem is that the DPF is at the manifold end of the exhaust system. Having just had a look under my bonnet, there are various bits of heat shielding in that area which means you cannot see it.
    Ah,

    Pity, would have been a pretty good way of telling!

  16. #15
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    Mine is an 08 plate 140bhp and my pipes point down!

  17. #16
    windsurfer

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    doesn't the engine has a serial/model number? that should tell...

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  18. #17
    doesn't the engine has a serial/model number? that should tell...
    Yes it does. The problem is that Audi change engine codes quite often but, from my information, I think the only code for the 170 engine used in an A3 so far is BNM.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  19. #18
    windsurfer

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    Well Dave sorry the off topic but can you check if there is any different part number codes for a left hand drive bixenon headlights or bixenon righthand drive headlights..

    After a year I think I was ripped off... I bought a left hand drive car here and the dealership charged me an extra 1000 for a set of "right hand drive" bixenon headlights so the car could pass the SVA test... I wonder if the xenons could not be aligned by software.... and if I really needed a right hand drive set of bixenon headlights. I am stuck with the left hand drive ones (like a spare)..

    The rear ones OK needed to be changed because of reversing light and fog light but the Xenons... if you know anything about this could you PM me please...

    Many thanks Dave.

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  20. #19
    motorbikez's Avatar
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    Look in your audi service shedule booklet it gives vin number then model year of manufacture and what you are looking for engine power output,which should read 125KW which is 170bhp.
    2007 Sportback S Line Tdi 170 Avus,Bose,Multi function steering wheel, Electric Lumbar support,Front centre armrest,
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  21. #20
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    Thanks for the tips guys, I have checked the service booklet and it does say 125Kw so 170 it is. However, based on this I am mightily impressed with the engine in the golf, I timed some in gear sprints today whilst driving home and there is nothing in it at all. Although both cars are basically the same floor plate the golf feels much different to drive, the sensation of speed is much higher, with the pedal weighting is quite heavy and the engine noticably louder than in the audi. It maybe is a 170 TDI but the fact that the tailpipes point down inidcates that it is a 140 to me. The gearing is the same and both engines idle just above 800rpm. Who knows.

    The interior is not as nice though.

    On the point of A3 140Tdi's having chrome tailpipes, unless I am mistaken they are starting to sell them in the UK now, just take a look on the used car section of the audi website. I am certain I saw some 140's with chrome tailpipes. They must be fitting them with DPF's now.

  22. #21
    On the point of A3 140Tdi's having chrome tailpipes, unless I am mistaken they are starting to sell them in the UK now, just take a look on the used car section of the audi website. I am certain I saw some 140's with chrome tailpipes. They must be fitting them with DPF's now.
    Glad to hear you have got the 170.

    It's possible that some of the 140s on the Audi used car website have chrome tail pipes because the previous owner changed them. I know quite a lot of owners did.

    The current Audi UK price list only lists the 170 as having a DPF although that may change.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC28 View Post
    Thanks for the tips guys, I have checked the service booklet and it does say 125Kw so 170 it is. .

    I'd take Dave's advice and check the actual code on the VIN plate, its possible a service manual could have been printed incorrectly/switched over

    Agree its unlikely but I'd personally want to see some proper evidence on the car, as you should be able to tell the difference in performance between yours and a 140 golf

  24. #23
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    Check the build sticker in the boot, under the mat
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  25. #24
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    try the Monty Python technique, if it weighs more than a duck its a 170

  26. #25
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    [QUOTE=JC28;506289]Thanks for the tips guys, I have checked the service booklet and it does say 125Kw so 170 it is. However, based on this I am mightily impressed with the engine in the golf, I timed some in gear sprints today whilst driving home and there is nothing in it at all. Although both cars are basically the same floor plate the golf feels much different to drive, the sensation of speed is much higher, with the pedal weighting is quite heavy and the engine noticably louder than in the audi. It maybe is a 170 TDI but the fact that the tailpipes point down inidcates that it is a 140 to me. The gearing is the same and both engines idle just above 800rpm. Who knows.[QUOTE]

    You might just have to remap it to 210 ;-)

  27. #26
    Not anymore - Back 2 BMW (shh)

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    Could also check CO2 emissions on V5?

  28. #27
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    PD140 vs PD170

    We do a lot of tuning on both of these engines in various cars, we've run two PD170s for around 18 months now and to be perfectly honest I'd choose a PD140 over the 170. It has a slightly smaller turbo and lower power which on paper doesn't sound good, however on the road it's a more responsive engine and much better around town and up to motorway speeds. It does loose out to the 170 at the top end, from my experience with them most of the 170 engined cars are over geared and in 6th 110-120 seems to be where it's happiest... they're quite sluggish engines at low rpm then aggressive when the power comes in.
    We tuned these engines with all that in mind and with Revo on the 170 becomes a much better car, it still has a slight lack right at the lower end of the revs but that's due to the hardware rather than tuning. We give it a little more power throughout the rev range and it lets you hold onto the revs more, broadening the power band.
    That's my opinion on them, hope it's useful!
    Kev

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    www.revotechnik.com

  29. #28
    We do a lot of tuning on both of these engines in various cars, we've run two PD170s for around 18 months now and to be perfectly honest I'd choose a PD140 over the 170.
    Personally I owned a 140 for nearly 2.5 years and 37k miles and I've owned my current 170 for 12 months and 14k miles and I would choose the 170 over the 140 every time.

    It's smoother, quieter and more pleasant to drive on a day to day basis.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  30. #29
    in the fast lane

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    It's a great engine don't get me wrong, I was just stating my opinion! To add to that I've no money invested in the cars but do use them on a regular basis. I'd rather have a PD170 if I was using it for longer journeys!
    Both are absolutely fantastic cars!
    Kev

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  31. #30
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    Coming from a 140 bhp Golf to a 170 bhp Audi, I think the 170 is far better all round. 140 is a cracking engine though. 170 is just better.
    Car History
    "57" Audi A3 2.0tdi 170 S-Line S-Tronic, Phantom Black
    "56" VW Golf 2.0tdi Sport
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    "51" BMW 330d Sport

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC28 View Post
    The reason I am concerned is that performance of this car is as good if not better than my Audi! Admittedly it has done more miles (about 6k as opposed to 2k) but even then that wouldn't make much difference. I would expect a 170 to be much quicker.

    These engines do seem to get a lot more lively with a few miles on them. 2K isn;t a lot, mine was a lot quicker, gave better economy, after about 5k so it could be that your engines still tight.

    J.
    Married and blonde yes, but still a guy with a poor taste in usernames!

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  33. #32
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    I take your point about running it in, I have already noticed that the engine is quite a bit more economical now, as I used to get about 40mpg and now it is doing 43mpg. Guess with the power it is a progressive change so you don't really notice the power increasing when running it in, so when you get into a car with a fully loosened up engine you can feel it right away.

    I am going to check this golf out and try to find out whether it is a 140 or 170 - it's still bugging me! As I said the engines both idle at exactly the same speed, the gearing is the same but it was doing an easy 46mpg on the motorway. It also seemed to sound different, engine was alot more noisy when inside the car.

    Having said that I'm really happy with my car, mileage is nowehere near what audi claim, but its a pleasure to drive. Looks the dogs gonards aswell IMO.

    Cheers.

 

 

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