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Thread: Debate

  1. #1

    Debate

    We often have very 'lively' debates on this forum which are generally very enjoyable.

    What tends to annoy me is when members who have either purchased or decided on in the case of company cars, an A3, then go on to say it's 'rubbish', 'crap' 'sh1t' and all the other stupid descriptions. After all they chose it which does not say a lot for their ability to choose a product.

    Fair enough to say there are things they don't like or don't think are as good as the could be or not as good as other makes, but those are personal opinions to which everyone is entitled. But to say the A3 is rubbish etc just because they personally don't like the whole car or a particular part of it is, in my view, wrong. Just because an item or component does not behave in the way they thought it would or how they think it should, it generally behaves exactly as the designers intended, within the cost restraints they have to work to. They may be different to someone's expectations but not necessarily wrong.

    The A3 is clearly not 'rubbish' or Audi would not sell as many as they do. And another point to remember is that the A3 and all other Audis are first and foremost designed to meet the requirement of it's home market in Germany and other LHD markets. Sometimes the change to RHD has to involve some compromises. After all, it's not Audi's fault that we choose to drive on the other side of the road to most of the rest of the world.

    Obviously quality in the reliability area is not something that can be known for certain on any particular single car. The A3 is in my view and experience as good if not better than a lot of other cars. All the 10 Audis, including 6 A3s, I have owned have been very reliable with only very minor problems, all of which have been quickly and efficiently sorted out by my dealer. Prior to 1976 I had 6 cars of various makes, 3 second-hand and 3 new ones which were far less reliable. In 1976 I purchased my first Mk1 Golf and had a further 3 Golf GTIs and a Golf VR6 and these were also very reliable. Hence I have owned a VAG product for the last 42 years!

    Well that's my view - keep up the good debates but don't lets rubbish what is basically an excellent product. Do your research before you buy it and if you don't like it, don't buy it.
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

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  3. #2
    TFSI's Avatar
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    Well said feller.

    Audi A3/S3 one of the best motors on the road today. Everybody you speak to wants one.

    Only my second Audi but i would be very reluctant to switch back to another make if finances made me, very very reluctant.

    The A3 is not flash with big spoilers and gimmicks all over it

    Its tastefully CLASSY.

  4. #3
    JimmyJames's Avatar
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    Dave,

    I'm with you on that one. As an overall product i can't fault it. Our individualism will determine or view points coupled with which model and spec we choose etc etc. In hindsight you may have made other choices or equally be presently surprised. Its classic case of no rights no wrongs.

    I firmly believe that most Audi owners are happy with their product and its a shame when you hear about the odd rogue/less than perfect car. As a brand rogue cars must be few and far between.

    I'm now on my 5th Audi overall with a short stop at Honda and apart from my TT with minor fit issues all of them have been great to own.

    As for my current S3, I'm finding it to be one of the best. I'm not saying it because its the bells and whistles model. I'm saying it because its a great drive, a beautiful car, great quality, built to last feeling.

    Yep i agree some people only want to find fault when its truly not there.

    Jas
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    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr
    We often have very 'lively' debates on this forum which are generally very enjoyable.

    What tends to annoy me is when members who have either purchased or decided on in the case of company cars, an A3, then go on to say it's 'rubbish', 'crap' 'sh1t' and all the other stupid descriptions. After all they chose it which does not say a lot for their ability to choose a product.
    I don't agree with this at all.
    If someone thinks their A3 is sh1t, crap or rubbish, why can't they air their opinion?
    Because you don't like it?
    Sorry, David, but it's a public forum
    I don't agree with personal attacks, but there's sod all wrong with using the above words to describe a car, provided they have reason to do so.
    Baseless slagging is daft, we all know that.

    I also don't agree with your assumption that the buyer has chosen wrongly.
    I based my decision to buy an A3 on three years of very reliable motoring in an A4.
    How was I to know my A3 would be so comparitively unreliable and poorly built?

    I think some people need to remember this is a public forum, not a gentlemen's club or an Audi love-in.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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    In Bowfer's camp over here

    if it's **** call it but give a good reason - baseless slagging off is a waste of bandwidth

    TBH if there's better cars out there than the A3 I couldn't care less - I've made my choice and I'll stick with it

    when I come to replace it hopefully I'll have learnt for my experiences

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    sorry Dave - Just because mine's a company car doesn't excuse the utterly crap experience I've had with the car, or the Audi dealers

    And as for the LHD comment, Are you for real?!

    poor Audi, If they make us pay for for their overpriced unreliable cars I would expect them to move the steering wheel over!

  8. #7
    I don't agree with this at all.
    I didn't expect you would Bowfer or for that matter your new apprentice barcardi.

    Still you will have your new BMW soon and you'll be a happy bunny, I hope. How much longer to you have to wait?

    Baseless slagging is daft, we all know that.
    It the baseless slagging off that my post was mainly aimed at. As you also said 'it's a public form'. Yes I agree and I given my views. I don't expect everyone to agree with them.

    It will probably depend most on how members have been treated by their dealer when they have had problems. Some are obviously good and some and not. If you have problems and they are sort quickly and efficiently by your dealer, as mine have been, then that's as it should be. If a dealer falls below the generally expected standard you have ever right to moan.
    Last edited by h5djr; 22nd February 2008 at 11:21.
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

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    The problem with 1 make forums is that the opinions do get rather onesided.

    Make a statement which goes against the brand and the majority will jump up and down on it - take the TTS -v- Cayman S thread as an example. The blind allegiance to the brand is beyond hilarious.

    People tend to consciously ignore the fact that there can be better cars out there as they take personal offence to someone suggesting their choice in car might be wrong or they could have selected better.

    If that's the case I don't see why they come to car forums if they can open their minds to other's opinions, they might learn something new and make a more informed decsion on their next purchase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr
    I didn't expect you would Bowfer or for that matter your new apprentice barcardi.
    Awesome!! Best thing I've read in ages!

    I thought, in the interests of a balanced internet forum that views from both sides of the fence were healthy

    You say you've had nothing serious go wrong with your Audi's at any and every opportunity, I like to think I'm giving the other side of the story as I have not had such a delightful experience

    13 (THIRTEEN!!!!!!) wheel bearings. 26 days of my life wasted with Audi dealers telling them that somethings wrong, trying to convince them to replace them

    3 Steering racks - 6 DAYS of my life wasted telling Audi dealers something was wrong with that too

    In what solar system do you have to live in to think that this is good?


    Its not MY fault Audi chose to build my A3 so badly,
    Its not MY fault my experience with Audi has been so bad

    The biggest annoyance I have is that I still like the look of the car (one of the best out there) and I still love the DSG box but everytime something else goes wrong with it, I just want to shoot it

  11. #10
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr
    I didn't expect you would Bowfer or for that matter your new apprentice barcardi.
    What, the bloke has the temerity to moan about his car, as I have?
    And that makes him my apprentice?
    That's a really childish statement, David.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacardi
    stuff about a broken car
    sounds like latent defects to me - could you not have rejected the car?

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    its 3 years old now

    Audi show little interest

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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr
    In 1976 I purchased my first Mk1 Golf and had a further 3 Golf GTIs and a Golf VR6 and these were also very reliable. Hence I have owned a VAG product for the last 42 years!
    Hate to nitpick, but 1976-2008 is only 32 years!

    Apart from that, an excellent point well made. I agree that a lot of opinions are based not just on the car, but the treatment provided by the dealer and the speed at which problems are solved.

    If I were to base my view of Audi cars on the aftersales experience in Ireland I would not think much of them, however I get my aftersales work done in Belfast where they have a much better understanding of customer care.

  15. #14
    Hate to nitpick, but 1976-2008 is only 32 years!
    Sorry about that, must be getting old and senile. I sure some members would probably agree!
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  16. #15
    13 (THIRTEEN!!!!!!) wheel bearings.
    They must have put aside a special batch for your car! Were they all the same wheel?
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr
    They must have put aside a special batch for your car! Were they all the same wheel?
    nope, each wheel has had three, apart from the NSF which has had four

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    From what experience i've had with A3's and i'm now on my second is that very occasionally you get one that is a bad build and everyone looks in shock as you tell them the woes you've had with the car.

    On the debate just keep the threads mature simple really, I have on more than one occasion let out a string of obscenities about my last A3 which would curl anyones hair but on the forum I try and put my experience down for others to watch out for on theirs wih the bare minimum of emotion.

    2P spent
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFSI
    Audi A3/S3 one of the best motors on the road today. Everybody you speak to wants one.
    Really? Do you honestly believe that?

    Or when they say they want an A3 is the question "would you like to be kicked in the balls or have an Audi A3"

    The A3's a nice car but I doubt very much everybody you speak to wants one unless that person is the saleman who is selling you one.

    How many teanage boys have pictures of A3's on their walls..
    Married and blonde yes, but still a guy with a poor taste in usernames!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    How many teanage boys have pictures of A3's on their walls..
    Every teengae boy has a Golf these days. They've become so cliched. An A3, atleast in London anyway, is very rare. Most teengae guys have suped up Chevrolets or Dodge Vipers, on their wall, but they're hardly likely to get one of them, are they?

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    I think I understand what David is trying to say here.
    It annoys me when people bash their audi for it being an audi. Or they are miffed that their gearbox changes gear by itself when they ordered a gearbox that changes gear by itself. Or someone complains that their car is too low which makes it difficult to climb in and out of, when they ordered an s-line.

    I've found that when I'm unhappy about something I've bought, I often catch myself deliberately looking for flaws in the item, almost like I'm trying to justify my feelings. I could spend my life being negative about my cars fuel economy, but at the end of the day, I wanted quattro and I wanted an automatic gearbox, so I can't complain that my economy has suffered. I also can't complain that my gearbox changes gear halfway round a bend either, because I wanted a gearbox that changes gear by itself.
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    Perhaps people think b ecause they are buying a premium brand car that it will be premium quality when in a lot of cases it is not?

    Not bashing Audi's, I kept mine for 2 years and while it was a good car it wasn't perfect.
    Married and blonde yes, but still a guy with a poor taste in usernames!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    Perhaps people think b ecause they are buying a premium brand car that it will be premium quality when in a lot of cases it is not?

    Not bashing Audi's, I kept mine for 2 years and while it was a good car it wasn't perfect.
    That's my point tho, feel free to bash it if it's not premium quality, but don't bash a s-line because it's ride is too sporty!
    53 A4 2.5TDi Quattro Sport 180 Tiptronic. Heated Buffalino leather, DVD Sat Nav RNS-E, TV, Bluetooth, 6 cd, BOSE, Colour DIS, Cruise Control, Auto lights and mirrors, Interior light pack, Heated mirrors.

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    As i have just bought an 07 A3 2.0T Q S-line, now seems like a good time to explain why the A3 was my obvious choice:
    I spent many many weeks picking through the usual options with a fine toothed comb: BMW 3 series coupe, A4 cab, A3 s-line, Golf GTI, Golf R32.

    I used to be a BMW fan but their products these days are nothing above average. Odd, uncomfortable design ethic to both the interior and exterior. This may be to some peoples taste but not mine. The cars feel japanese nowadays (IMHO), not to mention the continuing image problem and i pretty much refuse to deal with BMW dealers after past experience (thats a whole other story). But if you like beamers good luck to you. To me the new 3 series just felt too mature and like a 'reps' car. Technically good cars but as a package, not for me.

    The Golf GTI is a great car, no doubt about it. And it ticks many of my boxes...Quick, classy (for a 'hot hatch' anyway), well built etc. The same qualities apply to the R32, with the slight price difference to consider obviously.

    My reasons for buying the A3 are as follows: Overall running costs are pretty low compared to the other options. Insurance group 15 in comparison to 17 and 18 for the GTI and R32 respectively. I think it has a more 'reserved' and understated yet classier image than the Golf GTI. Probably not as involving to drive but i'm happy to make that trade off. I'm in my 20's but i'm no boy racer. I'm also self employed so the more professional image of the Audi suits my needs well. The 2.0T engine is great, quick when the power is needed and yet relatively economical for commuting.

    I see a few people have had bad experiences with the A3 but this applies to every car i've ever known including Porsches, Ferraris, Astons etc etc. Does it make all of them crap? Hardly. Just consider yourself unlucky to have got a bad one or maybe you've ended up with a car which doesn't suit your personality and lifestyle. We all have very individual tastes, likes and dislikes and i always enjoy hearing other opinions as long as they're diplomatic and educated. The A3 is not a **** car by any stretch of the imagination and it suits me perfectly. In my opinion it's one of the best 'all rounders' available taking everything into account.

    Hey, whatever floats your boat.

    Paul.

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    Audi are quality, great build quality, solid cars, amazing interiors, thats why I bought mine! Thats my opinion anyway, Dave some people on this forum just get off on moaning (no names mentioned)..

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    just as Paul said you can't call all Audi's sh1t, I would like to say that sweeping statements such as Audi have great build quality is equally flawed

    Mine is certainly not

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    Quote Originally Posted by bacardi
    just as Paul said you can't call all Audi's sh1t, I would like to say that sweeping statements such as Audi have great build quality is equally flawed

    Mine is certainly not
    Agreed. I'm not a total BMW hater, i had one and loved it. Also just because this is an Audi forum doesn't mean we have to constantly sing the praises of Audi. Obviously some people get bad cars and my local dealer was appauling. Swings and roundabouts!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80
    To me the new 3 series just felt too mature and like a 'reps' car.
    Is that not what the 3 series is designed to be? The same as the A4, the merc C-class...

    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80
    I'm also self employed so the more professional image of the Audi suits my
    Interesting you mention this but then talk about puttig a set of 19"s on it in a different thread... What do you think that says about image?

    Don't get me wrong I have modified all my cars in some way way and still do now so I'm not having a dig. I also work for myself but didn't choose my current car to help my image (I know I know good job seeing as I choose a BM this time round) as far as I am concerned I am paid because of what I can do, not what I look like or what car I drive....
    Married and blonde yes, but still a guy with a poor taste in usernames!

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    Well we'll agree to disagree on a few things! The 3 -series along with C-class and A4 are mid-sized saloons, not necessarily rep mobiles. The 3-series is without doubt the new company car of choice and has replaced the Mondeo in many cases and continues to out-sell it. So in my opinion it is becoming seen as a reps car more and more and it never used to be....which is a shame in my eyes.

    As far as 19's go... It can be done sympathetically and with a bit of class. Just because they're 19's doesn't mean it immediately becomes a chav charriot. It is a valid point though and wheels are very easy to get wrong, hence why i'm treating it with caution!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bacardi
    just as Paul said you can't call all Audi's sh1t, I would like to say that sweeping statements such as Audi have great build quality is equally flawed

    Mine is certainly not
    However, Audi is renowed for it's great build quality, that's why I bought mine. Indeed, some of them do fall short of the mark, and it appears to be happening more frequently these days, but the bar has been set very high by it's reputation. If your build quality does fall short, feel free to complain. However, some people complain that they tend to sweat on their leather seats in hot weather, - it's the nature of leather, it's not a fault! If you don't like it, get cloth seats! Same goes for gearboxes that change gears by themselves, - they were designed that way! If you don't like it, get a manual! But don't make it your life's mission to blame the car just because you ordered the wrong option for your own taste.
    53 A4 2.5TDi Quattro Sport 180 Tiptronic. Heated Buffalino leather, DVD Sat Nav RNS-E, TV, Bluetooth, 6 cd, BOSE, Colour DIS, Cruise Control, Auto lights and mirrors, Interior light pack, Heated mirrors.

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    so we all agree then, excellent

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    Quote Originally Posted by PNH80
    Well we'll agree to disagree on a few things! The 3 -series along with C-class and A4 are mid-sized saloons, not necessarily rep mobiles. The 3-series is without doubt the new company car of choice and has replaced the Mondeo in many cases and continues to out-sell it. So in my opinion it is becoming seen as a reps car more and more and it never used to be....which is a shame in my eyes.
    So what market are the a4 and C-class aimed at? The private buyer... Or the fleet market...
    Married and blonde yes, but still a guy with a poor taste in usernames!

    Mercedes Benze E-class 350 sport convertable, black, pacha grey leather, 19" AMG rims, HK stero and a few more toys
    VW Scirocco 2.0Tsi GT with Revo stage 2, evoms induction kit, lowered, short shift, miltek
    BMW 330 Coupe M sport Black, Black leather, Nav and a lot of other options.
    BMW Z4 Coupe Sport in black with a few toys - going friday and gonna be missed by my lad.
    A3 2.0Tdi S-Line DSG. Gone but not forgotten

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    judging by our carpark (2000 spaces) on a quick drive round it seems a pretty even split across the A3, C class and 3 series

    fair few mundano's too

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    Premium cars? naa... There are Premium badges on absolutly normal cars... yes!

    While Audi, VAG cars are well built and solid there is nothing outstanding about them....

    Neither there is something fantastic about build quality ona BM or a Merc... they are mass production cars and engineered for that... And costs are kept as down as possible... Apparent quality... yes some are better then others...

    But in terms of engineering there aren't major differences...

    I bought the S3 because I liked the 3door shape and at the time there wasn't a 3 door hatchback with the same engine/transmission spec...
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    So what market are the a4 and C-class aimed at? The private buyer... Or the fleet market...
    Petrol models = Private market

    Diesel models = Fleet market

    I think thats the general rule anyway!

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    I'd say in that sector mostly are sold as company cars, well thats what they are designed for.
    Married and blonde yes, but still a guy with a poor taste in usernames!

    Mercedes Benze E-class 350 sport convertable, black, pacha grey leather, 19" AMG rims, HK stero and a few more toys
    VW Scirocco 2.0Tsi GT with Revo stage 2, evoms induction kit, lowered, short shift, miltek
    BMW 330 Coupe M sport Black, Black leather, Nav and a lot of other options.
    BMW Z4 Coupe Sport in black with a few toys - going friday and gonna be missed by my lad.
    A3 2.0Tdi S-Line DSG. Gone but not forgotten

 

 

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