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View Poll Results: New tyres? Front or rear?

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  • Front

    31 58.49%
  • Rear

    22 41.51%
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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    So your now saying that with worn fronts my car doesn't tramline? I am just imagining it?
    no, I am saying that it's more likely down to the camber settings on the car

    if it were due to the tyre explain to me why a tyre worn equally across the tread (which is only 5 mm different from new to the point of illegal) will make it tramline?

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  3. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    I know you would say this....lololol!

    It is not the perbeft example at all but just helps to illustrate what happens when there is a difference in grip front/rear!

    Or are you saying that a worn tire grips the same as a new tire (after running in)?????????
    Worn tyres actually offer better grip in dry conditions than new ones. I assume no one would argue that?

    But in your example you had worn tyres front and rear did you not? Well thats what you posted? Are you now saying that the fronts had more grip that the rears?
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  4. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    On account it doesn't fit with your argument. Like I Said in the video there are 2 runs yes?

    One in which the car spins and the other it doesn't? Agree so far?

    So therefore we can conclude in the wet at 30mph driving round a bend in a family car with worn rear tyres and new front tyres you will spin?

    Is that not what the test showed?

    Sorry - was a sarcastic response to Bowfers comment

    As for your notes, you're 100% spot on

  5. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by klauster
    Tyres, do you wait until they are nearly illegal before changing? Mine are on half tread and I have already noticed a change in the handling... thinking about new rubber all round, if you like driving fast do you change your tyres before they get to minimum tread/illegal?
    I replace before illegal, but I don't pay for them.
    I tend to notice the car becoming sensitive to white lines/marks in the road, rather than a lack of grip.
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  6. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleep envy
    no, I am saying that it's more likely down to the camber settings on the car

    if it were due to the tyre explain to me why a tyre worn equally across the tread (which is only 5 mm different from new to the point of illegal) will make it tramline?
    So how has the camber changed on my car? It hasn't. The only thing that has changed is the tyre depth.
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  7. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by klauster
    as alot of people are posting in here who seem to know what they are talking about, let me add another question which Id like to know other peoples opinions on....

    Tyres, do you wait until they are nearly illegal before changing? Mine are on half tread and I have already noticed a change in the handling... thinking about new rubber all round, if you like driving fast do you change your tyres before they get to minimum tread/illegal?
    I try to change before they become iillegal, or close to
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  8. #167
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    I change them when the dealer says its the tyres causing the whee lbearing noise so that they have ot admit it is in fact the wheel bearings

    13 wheel bearings, 11 tyres

  9. #168
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    The tires on my S3 are mid worn and I can already feel the changes in grip....

    Actually some people might not be aware but is not only thread deep that gives the grip is actually the rubber properties... Have you ever wondered why winter tires wear very quickly if driven on dry hot tarmac? The compound is softer giving more grip at lower temperatures compared to normal summer tires...

    Another thing is that each heat cycle that you put the rubber on it actually hardens the compound slightly... So in terms of grip and talking only about the rubber a mid worn tire will have the rubber more "hard" than when it was new....

    Although it might not be noticiable by most drivers.... it is what happens.

    My father has tires that have lasted 60k km!!! He drives slowly and is very gentle on the tires... Some tires are like 5 years old... Hard as rocks for all the heat cycles (normal driving is enough to heat up the tire) and dried due to time... that rubber has absolutly no grip compared to when it was new... even if the threads are within legal limits..

    I change my tires every 2 years even if they are still legal... Usually they don't last two years but it is my limit...

    Pedro
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  10. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    Or are you saying that a worn tire grips the same as a new tire (after running in)?????????
    Pretty much, yes.
    Tyre manufacturers spend a fortune making sure their tyres retain their performance for their entire life.
    I know all about heat cycles, I used to do bike development work for Avon.
    Road compounds don't suffer from it, not really.
    Competition tyres do, because they're designed to work within very strict temperature perameters.
    They're designed to get to temperatures you couldn't possibly reach on the road.
    So the cooling/heating/cooling/heating cycle is more pronounced.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 21st February 2008 at 13:16.
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  11. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    Worn tyres actually offer better grip in dry conditions than new ones. I assume no one would argue that?

    But in your example you had worn tyres front and rear did you not? Well thats what you posted? Are you now saying that the fronts had more grip that the rears?
    Worn tires of the same compound of normal tires (not racing slicks) do not offer more grip in normal (dirty roads) Do you really think they do????? So I would you will save your worn tires for summer trackdays on your BM???

    The extreme of a worn tire would be a slick tire... do you agree?

    Put yourself on a proper go kart, get a tire with the same softness (which would be hard)... but instead of driving it in the circuit drive it on a parking lot.... you will see the great grip of a slick/extreme worn tire... put even a little splash of water from washing your car and then you will really see grip!!! (not!!)

    Pedro
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  12. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    So how has the camber changed on my car? It hasn't. The only thing that has changed is the tyre depth.
    correct, it hasn't

    the contact patch will have changed as well

    which is why a less -ve camber setting will reduce that

  13. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    Worn tires of the same compound of normal tires (not racing slicks) do not offer more grip in normal (dirty roads) Do you really think they do????? So I would you will save your worn tires for summer trackdays on your BM???

    The extreme of a worn tire would be a slick tire... do you agree?

    Put yourself on a proper go kart, get a tire with the same softness (which would be hard)... but instead of driving it in the circuit drive it on a parking lot.... you will see the great grip of a slick/extreme worn tire... put even a little splash of water from washing your car and then you will really see grip!!! (not!!)

    Pedro
    a worn, legal tyre (i.e. with tread, no slick) , will offer more grip than a new one in the dry. Please note I am saying in the dry, not on damp roads, not on wet roads, not in the rain, not in the snow. In the dry.
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  14. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    a worn, legal tyre (i.e. with tread, no slick) , will offer more grip than a new one in the dry.
    agreed

    less so in the wet

  15. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleep envy
    agreed

    less so in the wet
    Jesus. We agree on something!
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  16. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    Pretty much, yes.
    Tyre manufacturers spend a fortune making sure their tyres retain their performance for their entire life.
    I know all about heat cycles, I used to do bike development work for Avon.
    Road compounds don't suffer from it, not really.
    Competition tyres do, because they're designed to work within very strict temperature perameters.
    They're designed to get to temperatures you couldn't possibly reach on the road.
    So the cooling/heating/cooling/heating cycle is more pronounced.
    Sure is more pronunced but it exists!!

    Get your self this https://rexgauge.securesites.net/mod...?category=2100
    and check a new tire and the same one after a year of use....

    Maybe were are talking very small differences here.... but back to the topic the front vs rear is not negligible one...

    Pedro
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  17. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    Jesus. We agree on something!


  18. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    a worn, legal tyre (i.e. with tread, no slick) , will offer more grip than a new one in the dry. Please note I am saying in the dry, not on damp roads, not on wet roads, not in the rain, not in the snow. In the dry.
    I agree to disagree...lolololol

    If it is a worn tire you are probably saying it has more grip because there is more contact with the road.... whell if threads are legal I don;t think a tire can deform enough to take advantage of that.

    Also the rubber properties will have decayed compared to a new tire.

    If anything grip will be the same... not better.

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  19. #178
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    Five pages. Definitely a record for me.

    My decision is made.

    I totally understand both arguments but as far as my real world driving is concerned the new ones are going on the front.

    You guys can carry on if you like or lock it and close the poll. Up to you. Nothing new is being discussed and we don't want the thread to descend to mud slinging. Thanks to all.


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  20. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    I agree to disagree...lolololol

    If it is a worn tire you are probably saying it has more grip because there is more contact with the road.... whell if threads are legal I don;t think a tire can deform enough to take advantage of that.

    Also the rubber properties will have decayed compared to a new tire.

    If anything grip will be the same... not better.

    Pedro
    road surfaces aren't billiard table smooth

    the aggregate in the wearing course which is designed to allow water to trickle away will also key into the grooves

    the less the tread depth the greater the percentage that the tyre and aggregate are joined

    therefore greater tread depth the lower the slipping angle

    which is why it's harder for me to get the arse out on a track day with less tread and when it does go it's at a far higher speed than with new boots

  21. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1068
    Nothing new is being discussed
    yes there is

  22. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleep envy
    yes there is
    Be my guest then


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  23. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1068
    Nothing new is being discussed and we don't want the thread to descend to mud slinging. Thanks to all.
    3 pages ago I did think that I would be locking the thread but credit to everyone who's been involed in the debate it has remained civilised.

    J.
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  24. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    No guarantee her speed was the same for both tests.
    No guarantee her throttle position was the same.
    No guarantee the grip co-efficient of the tarmac was the same for both tests
    No guarantee her sterring wheel forces were the same for both tests.
    No guarantee the tarmac temperature was the same for both tests.
    No guarantee the tyre pressures were the same for both tests.
    Etc.etc.etc.

    So just like real life driving then?

    It may or may not happen depending on the conditions?

    I dont think anyone on here/tyre experts who have done the tests are actually saying if you put new tyres on the front IT WILL HAPPEN more of the CHANCES ARE INCREASED.
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  25. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleep envy
    road surfaces aren't billiard table smooth

    the aggregate in the wearing course which is designed to allow water to trickle away will also key into the grooves

    the less the tread depth the greater the percentage that the tyre and aggregate are joined

    therefore greater tread depth the lower the slipping angle

    which is why it's harder for me to get the arse out on a track day with less tread and when it does go it's at a far higher speed than with new boots
    Nice theory but I don't buy it.... but I give in and OK in the dry it will have the same grip.

    In a track day you might feel harder to loose the rear but probably is because there is more rubber in the racing line hence creating more grip.... If you have raced before you know what happens when you step out of the racing line... it's like stepping on ice!! lololol
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  26. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    So just like real life driving then?

    It may or may not happen depending on the conditions?

    I dont think anyone on here/tyre experts who have done the tests are actually saying if you put new tyres on the front IT WILL HAPPEN more of the CHANCES ARE INCREASED.
    So why bother posting up the links to the clips then? You used them as fact for your argument. The clips clearly show 2 runs showing what happens with worn tyres on the front and worn tyres on the rear.

    How many people do you think watched that show and thought crap need to change my tyres before I crash and die?

    Let me guess on that weeks top gear it was win a free ford C-max, complete with 4 new tyres from continental...
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  27. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleep envy
    on my 911 my fronts last twice as long as the rears mainly due to my driving style - therefore I replace all four, then just the rears and then all four and so on and so forth

    at no time will the front have a greater tread depth than the rear
    *cough* *er bo##ocks* *cough*

    You swap all four
    Then you swap the rears
    Then you swap all four.

    So actually, from the point you change all four to the point you change the rears the fronts have more tread depth.

    Or have I missed the point you were trying to make?!?

  28. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    So why bother posting up the links to the clips then? You used them as fact for your argument. The clips clearly show 2 runs showing what happens with worn tyres on the front and worn tyres on the rear.

    How many people do you think watched that show and thought crap need to change my tyres before I crash and die?

    Let me guess on that weeks top gear it was win a free ford C-max, complete with 4 new tyres from continental...
    I cant remember arguing on here.......

    More like just posting some FACT from experts/independents and not just OPINIONS to let the people arguing try to see some reasoning.
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  29. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    Let me guess on that weeks top gear it was win a free ford C-max, complete with 4 new tyres from continental...

    Possibly Fifth Gear maybe....
    NOW - Audi S3 Facelift - Sprint Blue, RNS-E Sat Nav, SDS, Bluetooth Phone Prep, Bose, Cruise, Buckets, FBMFSW, Adaptive Lights, Int Light Pack, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Piano Black Inserts, Through Load, Auto Dim RV Mirror/Wing, Auto Wipers/Lights, Folding Door Mirrors, Heated Seats, Ipod Dock, Front Arm Rest, Rear/Front Parking Sensors, 1st Aid Kit, Rear Arm Rest, H + R Springs, Front 15mm Spacers, Rear 10mm Spacers.

  30. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teejay
    *cough* *er bo##ocks* *cough*

    You swap all four
    Then you swap the rears
    Then you swap all four.

    So actually, from the point you change all four to the point you change the rears the fronts have more tread depth.

    Or have I missed the point you were trying to make?!?
    you <-------------stick--------------->point

    4 new tyres - use car = worn rears, half worn fronts

    replace rear tyres = half worn fronts, new rears

    use car again = worn fronts, worn rears

    replace all four, etc, etc

    ok, there will be a point that the fronts will have more tread depth but there's nothing you can do about

  31. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Possibly Fifth Gear maybe....
    Thats the puppy!
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  32. #191
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    More interesting reading.....

    [20 Apr 07] Motorists Get Their Tyres Back to Front!
    Category: General
    Most drivers think that new tyres should be fitted to the front wheels

    A car tyre is often a distress purchase, but even when replacing one in the course of normal vehicle maintenance, it has long been believed that the new tyres should be fitted on the front wheels. Research by TyreSafe, Britain's foremost tyre safety organisation, has indicated that over 50% of motorists believe this to be the case and 30% of motorists did not know.

    However, recent demonstrations have indicated that it is more beneficial to fit the new rubber to the rear wheels, regardless of whether the vehicle is front or rear wheel drive. Industry research suggests that if the new tyres are fitted to the rear wheels, water on the road surface is better dispersed, which improves straight line braking ability. Conversely, if the rear track is fitted with part worn tyres, the car often has a dangerous tendency to oversteer.

    Although the majority of the cars on the road are front wheel drive, it seems to make sense to have the new tyres up front. The demonstrations also showed that there is often a greater loss of control when a rear tyre suffers a puncture, so in fact it makes greater sense to fit the fresh, less vulnerable rubber to the rear wheels.

    Rear tyres are subject to relatively low wear rates as well, meaning that the new tyres will have a longer lifespan on the back rims. Fitting new tyres to the rear and moving part worn rubber to the front each time also means that the rear tyres will be less prone to age-related deterioration from prolonged exposure.
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  33. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    I cant remember arguing on here.......

    More like just posting some FACT from experts/independents and not just OPINIONS to let the people arguing try to see some reasoning.
    Do you not think you videos are flawed?
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  34. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    Thats the puppy!

    Vicky B not good enough for Top Gear
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  35. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    Do you not think you videos are flawed?

    I have only watched them once so not taken a huge deal of notice its just there is so much information and guidance on fitting new tyres to the rear (see my new post above) and nothing at all to state putting them on the front it seems a no brainer to me really....
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  36. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Vicky B not good enough for Top Gear
    Personally can't stand the women, but I'm not a great fan of fifth gear anyway. The only way it is watchable is on sky + so you can fast forward most of it...
    Married and blonde yes, but still a guy with a poor taste in usernames!

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  37. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    Personally can't stand the women
    and you're married?

    is it a civil partnership?

  38. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedblonde
    Personally can't stand the women, but I'm not a great fan of fifth gear anyway. The only way it is watchable is on sky + so you can fast forward most of it...
    Yup, you can easily watch an episode in under 20 minutes

    I love the way they leave it 6 months then copy an idea from Top Gear, only with half the budget

    plus Tiff Needel is an absolute arse

  39. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleep envy
    and you're married?

    is it a civil partnership?
    LOL...woman, can't stand the woman!

    Occasionally can't stand the wife either
    Married and blonde yes, but still a guy with a poor taste in usernames!

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    BMW 330 Coupe M sport Black, Black leather, Nav and a lot of other options.
    BMW Z4 Coupe Sport in black with a few toys - going friday and gonna be missed by my lad.
    A3 2.0Tdi S-Line DSG. Gone but not forgotten

  40. #199
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    I tell you when 5th gear stopped being an option for me.
    When they did a test (think it was between a Seat and a Gti Golf) around a racetrack, using reverse gear only...
    About the most pathetic attempt at humour I've seen since Only Fools and f*ckwits was on telly.
    TBH, if I were in charge of Seat/VW's press fleet, I'd have told them it was the last time they get a car to test.
    Honestly...screaming the tits of a car in reverse...
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  41. #200
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    now.........

    driving backwards

    New tyres on front or on rear?



 

 
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