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View Poll Results: New tyres? Front or rear?

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  • Front

    31 58.49%
  • Rear

    22 41.51%
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleep envy


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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacardi
    And you put yours on the front where it can make your car over steer off the road. Your money your choice.
    But that's my point.
    In 23 years of driving FWD cars (amongst others) it's never, ever, happened.
    You're opinion is that's luck.
    My opinion is the tyres have been up to the job.
    I'm not being flippant, grip is important to me.
    I thrash my car like a ginger haired stepchild.
    But I've never found rear end grip, in a FWD car, to be a massive problem.
    The odd little twitch and slide, yes, but nothing that's made me think the tyres were 'off'.
    My current back tyres are only at 3mm, and were transferred from the front.
    Again, no grip problems at all.
    The front can slip, slide and drift all over the place, the rear remains stuck to the road.
    I can concede the scenario is possible, but I believe you would have to fit some seriously mismatched compounds for the back to overtake the front, in a FWD car.
    Remember compound is just as important, if not more so, than tread depth.
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  4. #83
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    Don't think I've ever started a three pager before. I'll be asking everyone's opinion on immigration next I think

    My thoughts on this.

    For years I've always been led to believe that on a FWD car new tyres should always be on the front. Grip for the driving wheels, braking, steering etc etc. After I properly got the fast(ish) car bug a few years ago and talked to more people and read forums like this one I became aware of the new tyres at the rear argument. It made total sense. As already pointed out loosing the back end is potentially more dangerous than loosing the front. But what's hardly been mentioned in this thread is that 99% of the time you're pootling around town, in a straight line on the motorway or having a bit of safe fun on one or two A and B roads that you know very well. Many people on anonymous forums would have you believe they're at the red line most of the time and drive just on the limit of what's physically possible. They may or may not be but I know I don't drive like that. For a start I live in the UK and I can't remember the last time I saw an empty road.

    So, as I already said I think I'm coming down on the side of new on the front. It just makes more sense for me. Again, I understand the other side of the argument but I just can't see me loosing the back. OK, I lie. Yes I can but for my circumstances and probably the majority of drivers you have to weigh up the risk. Potentially more painful but much less likely to happen is my view. And something else. As I originally mentioned it's quattro. I'm not going to drive around with bald rears but I can put a little faith in the mechanicals. If it wiggles (which it never has) the 4WD is there to minimise it.

    Anyway, moot point for the time being. They ordered the wrong tyres. Twice. First they were the wrong size and then they were a different (lower) speed rating. 'They'll be alright.' Hmm... don't think I'll be going back there.


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  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    But that's my point.
    In 23 years of driving FWD cars (amongst others) it's never, ever, happened.
    You're opinion is that's luck.
    My opinion is the tyres have been up to the job.
    I'm not being flippant, grip is important to me.
    I thrash my car like a ginger haired stepchild.
    But I've never found rear end grip, in a FWD car, to be a massive problem.
    The odd little twitch and slide, yes, but nothing that's made me think the tyres were 'off'.
    My current back tyres are only at 3mm, and were transferred from the front.
    Again, no grip problems at all.
    The front can slip, slide and drift all over the place, the rear remains stuck to the road.
    I can concede the scenario is possible, but I believe you would have to fit some seriously mismatched compounds for the back to overtake the front, in a FWD car.
    Remember compound is just as important, if not more so, than tread depth.

    Yeah yeah, that's because you drive like miss daisy

    I'm trying to find a link to the 5th gear episode which showed what can happen, however I don't want to waste much time as I'm not sure anything could convince you guys

  6. #85
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    Hows this?

    Just a quick search...

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zZnuar-t6lg
    NOW - Audi S3 Facelift - Sprint Blue, RNS-E Sat Nav, SDS, Bluetooth Phone Prep, Bose, Cruise, Buckets, FBMFSW, Adaptive Lights, Int Light Pack, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Piano Black Inserts, Through Load, Auto Dim RV Mirror/Wing, Auto Wipers/Lights, Folding Door Mirrors, Heated Seats, Ipod Dock, Front Arm Rest, Rear/Front Parking Sensors, 1st Aid Kit, Rear Arm Rest, H + R Springs, Front 15mm Spacers, Rear 10mm Spacers.

  7. #86
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    Go on 'sleep envy'. I want to read what you deleted.


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  8. #87
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    FWD Car - new tyres go in the front!! you would certainly notice lack of grip more on the front than you would on the back.

    the front tyres have to do all the work.

    i have not once managed to get the back to step out with my A3.

  9. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Hows this?
    What sort of car is that? FWD or RWD? The BMW that appears briefly is obviously RWD but what about the other?


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  10. #89
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    I appreciate opinions on here but until someone a expert in the field of tyre testing comes on this forum and tells me otherwise I think i'll go with all the evidence available from physical tests and scientists and do what they say.

    Just because the back "has never stepped out before" does not mean it wont happen one day.

    Its like saying you have never had a accident in a car, it might just happen one day!
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  11. #90
    JamS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1068
    What sort of car is that? FWD or RWD? The BMW that appears briefly is obviously RWD but what about the other?

    God knows!

    I'm just trying to provide this discussion with FACT.

    Suppose it does not matter as they would have said, they mention being able to feel the car breaking away on the steering wheel which does not matter if its FWD or RWD.
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  12. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1068
    Go on 'sleep envy'. I want to read what you deleted.
    IMO it's been done to death so I have had second thoughts about posting the same thing for the 6th time

    the facts stand as they are - laws of physics can't be bent, the theory has been proven, it's a polarising topic

    ultimately it comes down to 2 things - your car, your choice

    the only thing I do suggest is reading JamS3's and newbicrg's posts

    I'm going to bow out of this one

  13. #92
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    Another english one

    http://www.etyres.co.uk/flashmovies/...ear-etyres.htm

    Nails the FWD and RWD debate
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  14. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Hows this?

    Just a quick search...

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zZnuar-t6lg
    spot on, and the other one too, however I think the resonse will still be "Never happened to me so i'll carry on ignoring other evidence that may make me see things in another light - I know best, yada yada yada"

  15. #94
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    Well each to their own but as said above this is fact tried and tested so it cant really be argued with unless someone finds something to put on here which disproves those vids.
    NOW - Audi S3 Facelift - Sprint Blue, RNS-E Sat Nav, SDS, Bluetooth Phone Prep, Bose, Cruise, Buckets, FBMFSW, Adaptive Lights, Int Light Pack, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Piano Black Inserts, Through Load, Auto Dim RV Mirror/Wing, Auto Wipers/Lights, Folding Door Mirrors, Heated Seats, Ipod Dock, Front Arm Rest, Rear/Front Parking Sensors, 1st Aid Kit, Rear Arm Rest, H + R Springs, Front 15mm Spacers, Rear 10mm Spacers.

  16. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Well each to their own but as said above this is fact tried and tested so it cant really be argued with unless someone finds something to put on here which disproves those vids.
    this is the internet - facts don't count

  17. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Well each to their own but as said above this is fact tried and tested so it cant really be argued with unless someone finds something to put on here which disproves those vids.
    No No... that will never happen in the UK we have very special roads and drivers. Also the A3 is very different from those tested... Sorry mate too much sun to be reliable! ahahahah

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  18. #97
    windsurfer

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    Just one more thing...... I rest my case!

    Pedro
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  19. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    Just one more thing...... I rest my case!

  20. #99
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    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  21. #100
    Not anymore - Back 2 BMW (shh)

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    Rear!

  22. #101
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    Its gone very quiet on this thread all of a sudden.......
    NOW - Audi S3 Facelift - Sprint Blue, RNS-E Sat Nav, SDS, Bluetooth Phone Prep, Bose, Cruise, Buckets, FBMFSW, Adaptive Lights, Int Light Pack, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Piano Black Inserts, Through Load, Auto Dim RV Mirror/Wing, Auto Wipers/Lights, Folding Door Mirrors, Heated Seats, Ipod Dock, Front Arm Rest, Rear/Front Parking Sensors, 1st Aid Kit, Rear Arm Rest, H + R Springs, Front 15mm Spacers, Rear 10mm Spacers.

  23. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Its gone very quiet on this thread all of a sudden.......
    Shhhh i'm watching UTD

    TBH ive never really give it much thought about front or rear , it was just natural for me to put new tyres on the front!

    After watching the vids , i think i'll swap them over!

    p

  24. #103
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    ...and however reasoned my post may have been I can always be persuaded.


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  25. #104
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    Neee bother fellas, happy to have helped.
    NOW - Audi S3 Facelift - Sprint Blue, RNS-E Sat Nav, SDS, Bluetooth Phone Prep, Bose, Cruise, Buckets, FBMFSW, Adaptive Lights, Int Light Pack, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Piano Black Inserts, Through Load, Auto Dim RV Mirror/Wing, Auto Wipers/Lights, Folding Door Mirrors, Heated Seats, Ipod Dock, Front Arm Rest, Rear/Front Parking Sensors, 1st Aid Kit, Rear Arm Rest, H + R Springs, Front 15mm Spacers, Rear 10mm Spacers.

  26. #105
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    Bowfer?


    Thoughts, comments?

  27. #106
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    Wow, what a heated debate! For what its worth, I have been driving all sorts of cars, vans and trucks for 35 years. When a tyre needs to be replaced just replace it!
    All this FWD/RWD/4WD discussion is a bit irrelevant. Remember we are talking about a Haldex system so the back wheels only get involved when (and if) they must. Having driven my Quattro for a year now I find it very difficult to notice the difference between Haldex and FWD. OK if really racing you can feel the back wheels pushing but is the exception rather than the rule.
    Given the choice to have either front or rear tyres replaced on a car which is predominantly FWD I would always go for the front. These are the wheels which are providing drive and steering so I know where I would put the tyres with more thread. The limited amount of time when new tyres lose grip should be acceptable to all drivers as you get that regardless of whether they are on the front or back.
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  28. #107
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    did you watch the video?

  29. #108
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    Last edited by mitch78; 2nd March 2009 at 23:55.
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  30. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacardi
    did you watch the video?
    Yea watched it now. It looked like an ad on QVC!

    I know from experience you put new tyres where they are required. ALL new tyres be they on the front or rear will be slippy! We all know that. The question was more about where new tyres should be placed on a Quattro car. A responsible driver will always take it easy until new tyres "bed in" so where they are fitted is pretty much an irrelevance.
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  31. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78
    Correct, the laws of physics can't be bent.

    As some people are obsessed with stating outright facts and not simply what has been experienced in real world driving situations, these are the 2 simple facts upon which my previous comments are based.

    (Just to be provocative )

    Fact 1: In the dry, part worn rear tyres have as much rubber in contact with the surface of the road as new tyres. Therefore there is a similar level of friction between the tyre and the surface of the road, resulting in similar levels of grip and a similar handling bias in terms of over/understeer.

    Fact 2: Part worn tyres have less ability to disperse water than new tyres due to the lower tread depth being able to accommodate a smaller volume of water, therefore they will lose grip more easily in damp conditions than new tyres, due to a possible build up of water between the tyre and the road.
    ? not sure where you are going with this as previous posts you've made seem to be opposed to this one, however I may have misunderstood

    fact 1 - correct, however older tyres have been through many heat cycles, meaning its not just the tread depth, its the actual grip on offer

    fact 2 - that's what we've been saying?

  32. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by smee
    Yea watched it now. It looked like an ad on QVC!

    I know from experience you put new tyres where they are required. ALL new tyres be they on the front or rear will be slippy! We all know that. The question was more about where new tyres should be placed on a Quattro car. A responsible driver will always take it easy until new tyres "bed in" so where they are fitted is pretty much an irrelevance.
    QVC - good call!


    its not a case of the new tyres being slippy though, (apart from the few tens of miles where they dispurse the release agent) its about them having more grip than older ones

    And, everyone else on this forum excepted, I see next to zero responsible drivers on the roads these days, I trust them as much as an Audi dealer (which is marginally less than a politician, or a criminal)

  33. #112
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    Last edited by mitch78; 2nd March 2009 at 23:56.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

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  34. #113
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    New rubber should be on the driving and steering wheels is the point I was trying to make. We dont have the luxury of running half worn out tyres on all wheels. So if tyres need to be replaced put them where they do the most work.
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  35. #114
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    I'm not getting involved anymore - it's much more fun watching from the sidelines

    there is more than enough evidence, reasosing, explanation and a vid for people to work it out for themselves - if some want to dispute it then fine, any chance you can give a sound argument against please

    I'm off to argue on an astrology forum I frequent that the world is still flat

  36. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by smee
    New rubber should be on the driving and steering wheels is the point I was trying to make. We dont have the luxury of running half worn out tyres on all wheels. So if tyres need to be replaced put them where they do the most work.
    so you didn't watch the video then


    I'm off too, absolutely 100% sure the world is flat
















    or is it round?

  37. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78
    Can I refer you back to my very first post on this thread:



    If we're talking about driving in dry conditions at a sensible (I don't mean slow) speed then you'll not notice much difference with the part worn's at the back, but will notice the improvement with new tyres at the front. So I've not changed my mind at all, it's just that some people try homing in on one sentence ignoring the rest of the posts and go off on one saying I'm wrong, they're right.

    your original post stated if you don't drive like an idiot you won't notice

    most people are clueless idiots (present company excepted)

    they don't know how to handle any form of oversteer

    something goes wrong, they need help

    Tyres the other way round may just be that help

  38. #117
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    Maybe I have been lucky in tyre choice, lots of years of fast driving without a major accident. must have just been good luck! I have driven over 1 Million miles throughout my life but as you say the world must be flat!
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  40. #119
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    Last edited by mitch78; 2nd March 2009 at 23:58.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

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  41. #120
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