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  1. #1
    theaddamsfamily's Avatar
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    Does Quattro option alter the suspension? SB 170 TDi SPT

    Hi,

    Very close on deciding what to get - Sportback 170 TDi Sport but I wanted to know if the weight of the Quattro (~100kg) altered the ride (I have seen other threads suggest just the 50kg of the sportback vs 3dr made a difference).

    The FWD I drove in the dry wanted to light up the front very easily in 2nd and 3rd just with slight changes in weight e.g small crests when coming off roundabouts etc - so I thought the Quattro would help in this department and possibly take the edge of the sport suspension as a bonus.

    Thanks

    Guy

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  3. #2
    lil_coz's Avatar
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    I was in the same situation as you. When I test drove a FWD 170 I found that the TC light was on a lot too. As you say, more on crests and roundabouts and it wasnt as if you were pushing it either! So I bought the quattro and I'm happy with the choice I made. Had the car 3 months now and I havent seen that TC light flicker yet!

    Didnt really notice anything in the ride but it is a lot more stable round corners. One thing that must be said is that the quattro will sap more power over the FWD.

    Coss

  4. #3
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    I had an A4 quattro and although it was marginally slower accelerating than my colleagues A4 FWD i could easily take him on a roundabout or round a sweeping corner. The difference when cornering was fabulous.
    Chris

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    rob1210's Avatar
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    I had an A4 2.0t quattro and loved it and thought coming to an A3 170 tdi FWD would be a pain with the wheelspin etc, but once you get used to driving it differently it's still just as much fun and I personally think the better fuel consumption of FWD outweighs the benefit of Quattro unless you live somewhere that needs 4wd.
    Car History
    "57" Audi A3 2.0tdi 170 S-Line S-Tronic, Phantom Black
    "56" VW Golf 2.0tdi Sport
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  6. #5
    windsurfer

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    Concerning quattro I would only go for it in the case of the 170ps diesel or the 2.0TFSI even if you drive it in the dry, it is such a difference in terms of stability and even safety!

    Lesser engines than those won't really need it if we are dealing with lost traction. But AWD is safer in the wet no matter what engine you have. The incresed fuel consumption is something to be aware as it is weight but as I said before the 170ps or 2.0TFSI they "need" the quattro.

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

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    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    But AWD is safer in the wet no matter what engine you have.
    I struggle with claims like this...
    After all, the hedgerows are hardly littered with 2WD cars.
    Equal cars, equal drivers, equally wet conditions.
    Would the bloke in the AWD pull away?
    It's conceivable he'd have some advantages, when accelerating out of slow corners for example, but to say the AWD car will be inherently safer is, IMO, highly debatable.
    Snow is the only time I will concede a 170bhp car has an advantage with AWD.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 29th January 2008 at 16:29.
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  8. #7
    rob1210's Avatar
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    I said before the 170ps or 2.0TFSI they "need" the quattro
    I disagree, having driven both, they are not that powerful

    (unless in snow like Bowfer says)
    Last edited by rob1210; 29th January 2008 at 16:32.
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    "56" VW Golf 2.0tdi Sport
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  9. #8
    windsurfer

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    Ok bowfer, each one to its own... but the fact that a AWD car is always safer than a FWD or RWD is undisputable.... It is not an opinion it is a fact. If it is faster or not that can be debatable but that it is safer.. no question about it... OK it won't make you be able to drive as you feel but in a wet road the chance that you would lose or strugle controlling the car will be greater in a FWD/RWD than a AWD. But maybe this is a racing drivers forum and AWD is for grannies...ahahah. I could not imagine driving my S3 without quattro would be manic!! The 2.0TFSI FWD that I drove was on the TT, maybe because it is lighter it is more understeery...

    Ok rob maybe we drive diferently, I had lost traction a lot with the 2.0TFSI (200ps) and also with the 2.0TDI in its 170PS version, especially coming out of slowish corners, the front always understeer a lot and although ok with new tyres with medium wear tyres it was silly... hence my word "need"...

    Pedro
    Last edited by newbiecrg; 29th January 2008 at 16:39.
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  10. #9
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    after driving the 2.0TFSI Quattro for a year I felt that it was something I could have lived without, on the A3 170 after a month in FWD I don't feel and need for 4WD. hence, no "need", maybe personal preference though for some.
    Car History
    "57" Audi A3 2.0tdi 170 S-Line S-Tronic, Phantom Black
    "56" VW Golf 2.0tdi Sport
    "55" Audi A4 2.0t S-Line Quattro
    "51" BMW 330d Sport

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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    Ok bowfer, each one to its own... but the fact that a AWD car is always safer than a FWD or RWD is undisputable.... It is not an opinion it is a fact.
    Although in theory I agree with you, in practise this is utter ********. In reality a person with 4x4 will think he's billy big spuds and asume because he has 4x4 that he can drive faster in snow, when 4x4 makes sod all difference to braking!

    I have been there myself in my old S3 in the snow. Everyone was pootling along wheelspinning so I gave it rice and shot past everyone then foot on the brakes and.... nothing! I went straight past my junction and ended up bouncing over a traffic island.
    This would NOT have happened in a 2wd car because I wouldn't have had the false belief that my car was safer than anyone elses.

  12. #11
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    lol at all these commenst,
    i think its each to there own, i just got rid of my 2.0 T A3, and that was mental for lighting up the tyres, but it all depends how you drive, at the time i bought it i didnt want a quattro, and enjoyed the car.
    now i have a S3 i dont really have much choice, but the handling when driving hard is a lot better, dont notice anything different when pottering about?
    i used to have a mk4 golf tdi 150, that jabba remapped to 210, you just learn to drive it smoother ?

    stick with 2wd if i was you ?

  13. #12
    windsurfer

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    That is precisely my point!!! I have never said it was faster I said it was safer....

    Now please, if you (Garth S3) thought that you were God by having AWD and did drive like that in the snow, I am sorry to say but you were at least naive!!! But you have to admit that in equal circunstances your AWD gave you more confident and car control than a FWD in snow or wet...

    I think rally cars are AWD for some reason... just a thought! No it is not safety I am sure those blokes could drive equally fast on slippery surfaces with FWD...

    Off course driving style interferes with some people needing or feeling that 200hp is just on the limit of too much power for on axle to handle but, for me, anything with 200ps or close or even an high torque 170ps diesel will benefit of AWD if we are talking efficient use of the traction/power made available by the engine.

    Having said that I am pretty sure that my dad would not feel that even if he was driving a Ferrari. Maybe I am not so delicate with my car...lolol

    Handling concerned and limiting my view on the A3 solely, I would challenge any FWD to go around a roundabout as fast as a AWD, same engine, same spec... a few laps on a long round roundabout and see which speed you achieve with either.... no brainer here... when the front of the FWD starts to go the AWD just starts to transfer power to rear and keeps going...


    Pedro
    Last edited by newbiecrg; 29th January 2008 at 18:45.
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  14. #13
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    So to sum up... its a matter of personal preferance lol

    Weather you get AWD or FWD you'll always adjust to suit the car. You just need a smoother right foot!

    I think everyone can agree that AWD will feel more stable round corners etc (for the average driver) but its not necessarily safer. If you drive like a pleb then you'll stuff it nomatter what you drive! AWD is a bit more forgiving in difficult conditions.

    Whichever car you pick i'm sure you'll enjoy it!

    Coss

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    I have a 180BHP TTR (FWD) and an A3 2.0TFSi Quattro.

    The A3 is much better in handling and road holding. I can get wheelspin on the TT without much effort, but so far never on the A3. The A3 is more secure when cornering at speed and overall is a better driving experience..IMO (except when the roof is down on the TT!!).
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    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambchop


    Of course he would because he can get his power down.
    The all important word here is "power"
    I'm not saying 4WD doesn't have it's place, of course it does.
    However, 170bhp simply isn't enough to warrant it, IMO.
    Your going on as if the 2WD driver will be sitting there whilst the wheels spin away like a stuck scalextric car.
    Hardly...

    Which deals with Pedro's daft rally car comment too.
    How can you equate a 170bhp car on tarmac to a 300bhp car on gravel?
    Sorry, but sounds like someone has fallen for 4WD marketing there.
    "Rally cars have got it sir, so your low powered diesel is bound to benefit"
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 29th January 2008 at 19:21.
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  17. #16
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LardFume
    Why you posting on As if you BM fan?
    Speaky ingrish?
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  18. #17
    windsurfer

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    Well bowfer I know your positions in the forum. Everyone is entitled to opinions and I don't try to sell anyone my ideas. But sometimes I feel that sometimes you try too hard to sell your own.... I thought you could understand the effect of torque of that 2.0 TDi engine as someone and well said, that was the point was the amount of torque that diesel develops even on a 110 Golf TDI my friend had he got some lost traction out of slow corners... so I can only imagine the "gruntier" 2.0 TDI.

    The rally example was going to extremes to demonstrate the benefit of AWD in terms of traction. Off course in a rally car it is much more noticeable and needed but suggesting that a 2.0TDI 170 FWD handles the same as the AWD is really having seriously biased opinion... which again you are entitled to!

    If I am daft or have being fooled about marketing that is my problem. My opinions though are not based on marketing but personal experience and simple physics.

    But as there are other factors here I can understand that some might have different experiences and driving styles and think they are better off with a FWD or that the benefits of AWD do not justify either the cost... but that is a different matter... that there are benefits is of no question! OK some disadvantages concerning mpg and weight.

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by theaddamsfamily
    Hi,

    Very close on deciding what to get - Sportback 170 TDi Sport but I wanted to know if the weight of the Quattro (~100kg) altered the ride (I have seen other threads suggest just the 50kg of the sportback vs 3dr made a difference).

    The FWD I drove in the dry wanted to light up the front very easily in 2nd and 3rd just with slight changes in weight e.g small crests when coming off roundabouts etc - so I thought the Quattro would help in this department and possibly take the edge of the sport suspension as a bonus.

    Thanks

    Guy
    Like lil_coz I tested both and preferred the Quattro. I don't pretend to be a great driver but the Q feels more secure powering out of bends / roundabouts etc, and the ride feels better. It never lights up the wheels on acceleration.

    Downsides? It is definitely heavier so acceleration is less brisk (whatever the published figures say) and fuel consumption is heavier. Plus there's some loss of boot space.

    I also tested an S-line with DSG gearbox. Horrible ride, and I personally prefer the manual box.

    Test drive your options before you make your choice!
    A3 Sportback TDI 170 Quattro, heated leather, RNS-E, GSM prep, BOSE, Open-Sky, etc.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob1210
    after driving the 2.0TFSI Quattro for a year I felt that it was something I could have lived without, on the A3 170 after a month in FWD I don't feel and need for 4WD. hence, no "need", maybe personal preference though for some.
    Absolutely - the 170 in the dry proves very difficult to get the TC light to come on and I'm not hanging around. I am more than happy with my 170 in FWD guise.
    Audi A3 Sportback SE 2.0 TDI 170 - Lava Grey, Rear parking sensors, Symphony II+, Aluminium Trim

  21. #20
    rob1210's Avatar
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    I would challenge any FWD to go around a roundabout as fast as a AWD
    Is there much opportunity to go that fast (safely) round roundabout these days on our over congested roads?

    Ultimatly go for what you prefer and what suits you, that's what really matters.
    Car History
    "57" Audi A3 2.0tdi 170 S-Line S-Tronic, Phantom Black
    "56" VW Golf 2.0tdi Sport
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  22. #21
    Kris's Avatar
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    I had a FWD 170TDI which was a great car. I debated having quattro but didn't bother in the end due to similar comments of it wasn't necessary. So, it's a personal choice based probably on how you drive and what you expect of your drive. For me i regretted not getting the quattro simply because even in dry weather i couldn't use full power without the TC taking over. I don't see the point of adapting my driving style to suit and feathering in the power (may has well bought a 140 and saved some money). Bottom line is the 170 has a kick of torque and i wanted to use all of it which i couldn't. Others may be a little more subtle with their driving and torque wouldn't be a problem ..... each to their own. I'm glad the S3 has quattro, as previously stated it would be a pain without it. I'd go so far as to say that a 170TDI quattro in certain conditions would out perform a none quatrro S3 (if there were such a thing). MPG, safety or making the world a nicer place to live are not on the top of my priority list. Getting ALL the power from the tyres to the road without compromise is what i'd expect.
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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    but the fact that a AWD car is always safer than a FWD or RWD is undisputable.... It is not an opinion it is a fact.
    really?? that's a very bold statement - would you care to provide the facts?


    back to the OP if it were me I'd stick with the FWD, read the topography far more carefully, modulate your right foot to compensate and take pleasure in improving your skills behind the wheel

    try driving any air cooled 911 if you want to get up to speed with it - you'll **** yourself the first time you drive a familiar road and notice all the lumps, bumps and off cambers that you bever knew existed

    have a look at this if you want a quick comparison regarding your post - Pointless car??

  24. #23
    jamiekip
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    Mixed bag of views on here tonight!

    If you REALLY want the 170, I'd make sure you test drive both, only then will you see for yourself the benefits of quattro 'v' fwd on the car.
    If you decide on fwd, i'd make sure you test drive the 140 too, as from what I understand it's more tractable (and cheaper!!!).
    My dad recently bought a Golf GT TDi and was debating the 140 'v' 170 version of the engine. Having test driven both, the additional concentration required to modulate the power in the 170 made his decision for him, the 140 was easier to drive smoothly so that's what he orderd - worth noting, he's an A to B guy, not a light your tyres up guy!
    As mentioned above, it's not so much the bhp that causes the problem, but the torque.
    I've not driven either A3, just passengered in the golf when he was out test driving, so not in a position to say how the 170 A3 quattro and fwd actually drives.
    I did however, before purchasing mine test drive an A3 s-line 2.0 TFSI Q, 2.0 TFSI FWD and the S3 and as mentioned above, the Quattro does offer more stability under power and cornering and feels more re-assured whilst pressing on - it seems to remove some the understeer too. The fwd, in my opinion is slightly less rewarding or as sharp to drive, all the power & torque as well as steering through the front wheels means understeer comes along a lot sooner.
    All my personal opinion and as mentioned above, all stuff you would probably adapt your driving style around.

    So I'd just say get yourself down the stealers and get them to organise back to back drives of the 170 Q, FWD and 140 FWD. Test driving is part of the fun of buying anyway isn't it!!!

    Good luck

  25. #24
    windsurfer

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    I agree just test drive and make your own thoughts about if you need it or not!

    Safer it is without a doubt when compared to a FWD, specially on wet-slippery roads (most of the UK?)

    Sleep envy, what facts do you wish me to provide? Do you have a doubt that a AWD is a bit more controllable, stable and with more "friendly" handling than a FWD/RWD? I don't care which is faster, more rewarding to drive (this thing about rewarding is so personal...) but the only thing that is a fact is that having 4 wheels to put the power/torque down cannot be worse than having 2!!! If anything you would be the same as a FWD never but never in a worse situation!!!

    Really mate if you want I am happy to discuss this with you but let's open a new thread AWF vs FWD and everyone states their opinions...

    I apologise to the new user that initiated this thread for missing the point. Sorry for all my off topic replys.

    In terms of handling, for me, a 170 diesel will go better with quattro, will be more rewarding to drive and will handle better.

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

  26. #25
    lil_coz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris
    making the world a nicer place to live are not on the top of my priority list.
    I'm not alone then?!

    Let us know what you go for Guy!

    Coss

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    Really mate if you want I am happy to discuss this with you but let's open a new thread AWF vs FWD and everyone states their opinions...
    agreed

    FWD -V- 4WD, any opinions?

  28. #27
    theaddamsfamily's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the opinions/experiences so far. Neither of the 2 local dealers have a TDI Quattro I can drive so I am attempting to choose blind.

    Cost for me personally is not an issue - with a fuel card (taxed at 40%) I reckon the increased consumption is almost balanced by potentially less tyre wear. I know it is not permanent AWD but working on the principal that less slip = less wear there should be something there.

    I owned an Impreza for 4 years and currently have an E46 320D ES BMW - thus it was quite easy to detect the ESP working in the dry when using the wave of torque with a FWD demonstrator. I know about adapting technique - I ride an enduro bike in the most ridiculous conditions, but I am not sure I want to have to do this all the time in a car.

    So the other aspect was what differences does Quattro make to the ride with the extra weight? Also any changes to noise or anything else?

    Thanks again.

    Guy

  29. #28
    jamiekip
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    Hi guy,

    I think to answer your question about differences in the way a car rides really need you to try and test drive them back to back.
    I guess all owners on here wouldn't know unless they have access to both???

    At a guess I'd say there would be little difference, but couldn't say for sure.

    Sorry not more use!

    JK

  30. #29
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theaddamsfamily
    thus it was quite easy to detect the ESP working in the dry when using the wave of torque with a FWD demonstrator.
    To be fair, that's probably as much a slamming indictment of the ridiculously pedantic ESP, as huge torque levels on the car.
    It simply won't allow even moderate levels of wheelspin without taking over in it's crude manner.
    Anyone with a modicum of throttle control, as you evidently have with riding off-road, is better to switch the ESP off and use their foot.
    Unfortunately, you then have to suffer a bright orange warning light...
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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  31. #30
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    Interesting............the traction control in the A3 is (in my opinion) one of the better ones out there, I've found it pretty unobtrusive, only getting narky when it gets a wheel in the air

  32. #31
    jamiekip
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    agree with bacardi - my old S3 was a nightmare for stepping in, sometimes cutting power before shuffling power to the rear wheels. Not had my new one step in yet - in fact I forgot to turn it off on track and it only stepped in coming out of the hairpin which was pretty impressive considering 4 wheel drifts (it was pee'ing it down!) were happening on a long sweeper a couple of corners earlier!

 

 

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