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  1. #1
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    170 or 140 bhp - advice wanted

    Hi All, New member here.

    Currently got a A3 2.0tdi sport sportback 140bhp and have put 65k on it, it will be 2 years old in March so I'm looking to change it. AFter compiling a shortlist I've decided to buy another sportback in sline model, but shall I go for a 140bhp model with a few extras (nothing essential but nice to haves and things I don't have at the mo) or a 170 s line with no extras?

    Not bothered about the difference in mpg, 90% of my driving is on the motorway. I'd like to know if the 170bhp is good to live with in real life, is there too much power/torque for a fwd car, will I notice the difference in overtaking and on my twisties? I love to drive on good roads when I get the chance but looking for commenst from others.

    I've got a test drive next weekend booked.

    Cheers,

    Chris.

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  3. #2
    lil_coz's Avatar
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    The 170 would be easier on the motorway because of the extra power. Make life easier when overtaking etc. Wouldnt say that it has too much power for fwd.

    As for which one to go for will all depend on you. As you said, a toss up between 140 with gadgets or a 170 with none. You may need to think about when it comes to sell it. Gadgets make a car more appealing.

    Hope this helps.

    Coss

  4. #3
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    You might also want to consider waiting until the Summer, when the facelifted A3 comes out, as this gets the new common rail 143 diesel (as fitted to the new A4).

  5. #4
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    Go to your local dealership and test drive one. My dealership offered let me have a 170 demo overnight to get a proper feel for it.

    I drove the 140 and 170 back to back and bought the 170 without hesitation or a 2nd thought. The 170 is soo smooth and bloody rapid and a joy to drive.

    Not regretted my choice once in the last 21.65k miles.

  6. #5
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    Firstly I would use the search function to check out the site - just type A3 170 or something like that & you'll find a wealth of information.

    Others will be in a better place to enthuse or otherwise on the 170 as I have a 140. The Key thing I'd recommend is understand the DPF/ associated issues with this in the A3 170. The DPF (diesel particulate filter) is on the 170 (not the 140) and has led to some people having issues / problems with the engine. Apparantly, Motorway mileage is more in tune with the DPF not causing issues (according to the literature...) so you may feel it is not a concern

    For your information:

    This thread may be of use
    Audi DPF document
    As may this one (its a monster!)
    The 170 story so far....

    And your dealer should provide you with literature like this on the DPF
    http://www.iconia.org.uk/files/Diese...mendations.pdf

    The same engine is in the Leon FR TDI and this thread gives a good flavour on the debate on the issues from seatcupra.net
    http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146732

    I am in the same boat as you in a few months time when company car comes up for renewal - I'm more inclined to go with the new or old 140 (+ few extras) and if i need more power upgrade accordingly (with performance chip). I appreciate this may be different for you but hopefully sharing with you something to consider which may not naturally be highlighted by the dealer will help/inform. Bear in mind the overall context re the DPF issue - it will only relate to a smallish minority of 170 cars & the odds are it wont affect you, but it would appear to be causing more issues that you should expect from a 21st Century engine (though many may argue both Audi diesel engines belong in the 20th Century!).

    Hope this helps
    Last edited by mister.c.; 16th January 2008 at 15:25.

  7. #6
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    some good feedback so far,

    a few things to add, it's a company lease car so can't wait and re sale not an issue (except fo the leasing costs). I have a test drive booked a week on Sat and I know there's a small difference in tax (which I'm not concerned with).

    Keep them coming and will have a look at the links as I wasn't aware of the probs

    thanks so far

  8. #7
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarks
    it's a company lease car
    What were the other cars on your list, or is this a 'free' choice?
    Just curious how other companies work.
    Free choice here (up to a loose limit).
    Others on here mention they have a pre-determined list they have to pick from.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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  9. #8
    Spin140's Avatar
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    I 'd go for the 140 and the toys, with todays congested roads the extras will make things more comfortable and if you want more at a later date a reversible remap giving an average of 185 bhp is available from many companies without DPF issues. Power is easy to add, the extras not always so.

    Although as correctly stated you are unlikely to have any issues as this tends to be related to short journeys and inefficient burn off.
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  10. #9
    Kontraband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    What were the other cars on your list, or is this a 'free' choice?
    Just curious how other companies work.
    Free choice here (up to a loose limit).
    Others on here mention they have a pre-determined list they have to pick from.
    yeah, we had a predefined list. Basically went from grade a to grade e or summat. Grade A would be things like honda civic 2.0 or 118d BMW or A3 petrol etc etc and each grade you went up.. it had the same type cars just with higher spec's or engine etc... so grade d would be a 3 series BM and an A4 etc ...

    Id much rather have had free choice... although technically I do now... as I opt out.

  11. #10
    Matt's Avatar
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    I had mine on the motorway yesterday for the 1st time and it was doing 46MPG at 80mph, wasn't a long run either so would imagine it would climb a bit more than that over a longer distance.

    The 170 is quieter and obviously has more power. The 140 seems to run out of go a bit higher up the revs in comparison.

    DPF - no problems so far with mine. I remember reading the DPF thread before I bought mine and it did put me right off the 170 till I drove one.

    The 140 is good and I was all set to buy one till I test drove the 170, the extra power won over the difference of a few MPG for me. Its still not exactly shabby economy for the pace it delivers.
    Last edited by Matt; 16th January 2008 at 15:45.
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
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  12. #11
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontraband
    yeah, we had a predefined list. Basically went from grade a to grade e or summat. Grade A would be things like honda civic 2.0 or 118d BMW or A3 petrol etc etc and each grade you went up.. it had the same type cars just with higher spec's or engine etc... so grade d would be a 3 series BM and an A4 etc ...
    Id much rather have had free choice... although technically I do now... as I opt out.
    Fair enough.
    I was just going to give you a quick warning about Co2, for tax.
    The 140 and 170 are quite high, relative to some of the competition.
    But if you're opting out, not a problem!
    FWIW, I'd probably go for a standard 170 than a loaded 140.
    The S-line isn't exactly poverty spec, and the likes of built-in satnav and full leather doesn't bother me.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 16th January 2008 at 16:03.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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    '08 to ? - Black Alpina D3

  13. #12
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    My company are a big global company and we have a european lease deal with Arval, so I have a pre determined limit/grade and can choose anything from their list, which is something like, BMW, Audi, VW, Toyota, Lexus, Honda and Ford for my grade, but as I've currently got an A3 and love it and not needing additional room as 95% of the time im by myself and the other 5% is just the girlfriend no need to get anything bigger. The car must have 4 or 5 doors in my company though

  14. #13
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    The tax doesn't bother me as I like the quality and styling and don't like the 1 series BM or the 3 series in anything other than M sprt trim and the 2.0 M Sport is more than my allowance and I have a wedding to save for so dont want to spend any more a month of lease or tax

  15. #14
    motorbikez's Avatar
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    I would agree with what Matt says and as you drive 90% motorway miles
    you should have no dpf issues I've done 11K in mine and have had no problems with dpf.Mpg average 42.5 and the car can really move if you want to.
    2007 Sportback S Line Tdi 170 Avus,Bose,Multi function steering wheel, Electric Lumbar support,Front centre armrest,
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  16. #15
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarks
    The tax doesn't bother me as I like the quality and styling and don't like the 1 series BM or the 3 series in anything other than M sprt trim and the 2.0 M Sport is more than my allowance and I have a wedding to save for so dont want to spend any more a month of lease or tax
    Check the tax thing, because BMW's Co2 figures have been slashed recently.
    Could mean a decent saving.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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  17. #16
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    Sorry my message wasn't clear, I know the BMs are more power and less emmisions and therefore cheaper in tax, but the best BM at my level is a 320D ES, but I find it very bland on the inside and the seats very unsupportive and without M sport stylying very uninspiring on the outside, plus unfortuntaley as lot of Kn*bs do drive BMs and there's a stigma attached to them, much more of an audi fan, but if I could afford the M sport may of considered it

  18. #17
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarks
    Sorry my message wasn't clear, I know the BMs are more power and less emmisions and therefore cheaper in tax, but the best BM at my level is a 320D ES, but I find it very bland on the inside and the seats very unsupportive and without M sport stylying very uninspiring on the outside, plus unfortuntaley as lot of Kn*bs do drive BMs and there's a stigma attached to them, much more of an audi fan, but if I could afford the M sport may of considered it
    I get you, I agree the ES is a bit poor.
    M-sport, minimum, for me too.
    I'll ignore the 'kn*bs and stigma' bit, seeing as I'm away to get one...
    IMO, there are just as many kn*bs drive Audis these days, easy.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarks
    plus unfortuntaley as lot of Kn*bs do drive BMs

    LOL, absolutely !



  20. #19
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    I'm not generalising them all, but I do 130 miles a day on the motorway and I come accross a fair few, ranging from ones at high speed, tailgating and hoggin lanes, but yes you get plenty in other cars too, they just don't get generalised like BM drivers, but if I could get an Alpina I would care..lol

  21. #20
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarks
    but if I could get an Alpina I would care..lol
    Ah well there you go.
    I tell people it's an Alpina.
    Like the bloke in pub that used to get annoyed when I said "Sierra", and he'd shout "It's a bloody Cosworth!".
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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    '08 to ? - Black Alpina D3

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    I see you have a gixer? I had one too until I had to buy an house a year ago, no fun growing up. I was on gixercrew (now pretty much closed) and gixerjunkies. Had a K3 600, funny thing is had that for 2 years and never got pulled, then got an A3 diesel and got done on a mobile speed camera...lol

  23. #22
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarks
    gixerjunkies.
    Small world, indeed.
    I am very familiar with gixerjunkies.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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  24. #23
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    go for the 170 you won't regret it. I have had a golf 140 tdi and I've driven my mate's A3 140 tdi a few times and the performanec doesn't compare. I guess as a company car you are not going to want to chip it?
    Car History
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    No there will be no chips.

    I still read the junkies site and was on loads at the beginning, just read the yorkshire section as used to ride with a few of the lads who still go on there

    Thanks for al your advice so far chaps

  26. #25
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    You really need to drive them to find out for youself but there isn't much difference in performance if you by the seat of the pants, the 170 is much smoother, If I could have found one in my budget then I would have gone for the 170 but due to cost and the fact that the more you spend the more you lose I went for the 140.

  27. #26
    SteveTDCi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    What were the other cars on your list, or is this a 'free' choice?
    Just curious how other companies work.
    Free choice here (up to a loose limit).
    Others on here mention they have a pre-determined list they have to pick from.

    You want to work at my place, i'll let you have a Focus and thats it

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveTDCi
    You want to work at my place, i'll let you have a Focus and thats it
    #



    hey, could be worse.

  29. #28
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    well after having the 170 for a couple of months I cannot recommend it highly enough especially on the motorway. The pulling power is just astonishing for a 2.0 diesel - third gear is immense and there is no let up from there on.

    Get the 170 !
    Audi A3 Sportback SE 2.0 TDI 170 - Lava Grey, Rear parking sensors, Symphony II+, Aluminium Trim

  30. #29
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    i would go for 140 with toys and remap it to 180bhp and 380nm
    (you can go to 400Nm if not DSG model)

    which would be a lot quicker than std 170

    my choice ...DPF is a little too sketchy for me.
    2004 AUDI A3 S-LINE DSG TDi
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  31. #30
    i would go for 140 with toys and remap it to 180bhp and 380nm
    But Tarks has already said it will be a company car and he will not be allowed to chip it.

    Personally, having owned both a 140 and a 170 I would go for the 170 every time. It's so much smoother and quieter as well.
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  32. #31
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    i've had both and the 170 is superior in performance, refinement and noise, however it does sip a little more juice, but not as much as a 2.0T however.

    It is impressive just how the speed builds up to a fair old whack in not much time at all and with absolutely no fuss - i mean you can get away from lights pretty quick but without it looking or sounding like your even trying if you know what i mean (this is down to the torque i guess) and if you get the DSG even more so, as its just constant acceleration through the gears without losing turbo boost as you do in a manual.

    As someone pointed out above you can chip a 140 to the same or more power, but this will give you warranty issues and insurance issues and will probably over time wear things out a little quicker (more important if you do big mileage, less important if you don't do much) - but no amount of chipping will turn it physically into a 170 engine which is a fair bit different in terms of mechanicals not just electronics, eg it has extra balancer shafts for a start to reduce vibration - this isn't something you can add with an upgrade.

    In my opinion you would be wise to get a diff engine as if you get the same the car will feel very similar to the one you have now and you prob get bored of it before its due to be changed. My tip is to change the car as far from the original as possible/budget rather than try to replicate it.

    DPF issues also seem to be more common on manual cars than the S-tronic ones - as the gearbox prevents the dpf from getting clogged at all by increasing its gear shift points regularly.

  33. #32
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    Well test drove the 170 at the weekend and first impressions were it welt a lot tighter than my car (mileage was about 1k vs mine at 66k), didn't feel any faster in all honest as it's very quiet and refined, but when I got back in mine realised how much more power/towrque it has. I have now ordered a A3 2.0tdi 170 S Line in black with black styling pack, heated leather, ipod connection, rear parking sensors and multi function steering wheel. Estimated delivery end March / April. Can't wait, although after a good clean this weekend the 140bhp sport still puts a smile on my face

  34. #33
    lil_coz's Avatar
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    Good choice! You'll enjoy it. As you said, you dont notice the difference to begin with. Once you've tried and gone back, then it becomes noticable!

    Sounds nicely specced. Gotta play the waiting game now!

  35. #34
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    Yeah nice choice. The black styling pack looks good
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
    Now: Mini John Cooper Works

  36. #35
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    Roll on march ! sounds like a nice spec.
    Gone A3 TDi S Line DSG Bluefined

    Now Seat Leon Cupra about to be Bluefined

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    200BHP?

    Not sure if you are still deciding...but

    a) 170BHP is certainly fine for FWD. I drive a 200BHP TDI here in Taiwan. Pure pleasure, smooth, and still get 900km of highway driving on 50litres of diesel.

    b) With better performance, the pleasure of the car is coming from how it drives, I have no time to fiddle with extra gadgets anyhow!

 

 

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