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  1. #1
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    Thinking Of Selling The TDI - What Do You Think?

    I finally got around to reading the Allard A3 TDI Quattro with over 300bhp and there was a point made about his previous car (FWD) not being able to handle anything really over 220+.
    That hit me quite hard and so much so that I really am considering selling the car...:

    ~ FWD - can't handle the power especially with all the torque.
    ~ 59k - i'm planning to spend alot of money on my car but coming upto 60k now, i'm not sure if it's worth it... I know the diesels engines can last long! but I wanted to work on something alot younger.

    Those are the 2 things that are stopping me from keeping the car. I know it sounds a little silly but I really am planning to make my car really good. I am willing to spend alot of money on it but not like this...

    Am I right in thinking like this?
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  3. #2
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    Well if money isnt much of a problem then I wouldnt blame you for switching to quattro! FWD would be your main issue with all the power... Especially the torque! You'll just have the TC light going mad all the time.

    Going quattro would deafinately give you a lot more room to play. If you're having doubts now and you stick with your current car, you may regret spending all that money on a car you know your not 100% happy with....

  4. #3
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    Quattro only comes into play with 300bhp+ cars....

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    ive driven a lot of fwd cars tho most with same engine, vw gti, seat, saab, audi (current) and more... all 2.0t, gti was chipped and couldnt cope..

    Anything over 210bhp on 2 front wheels, in the uk is hard to control and if you get the acceleration point in a corner wrong you can easily go straight on (driving hard)...

    I now wish id gone quattro and is one main reason i will be swapping to an s3...

    I would expect as said above the torque would be hard to handle on 2 front wheels

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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_coz
    You'll just have the TC light going mad all the time.
    The operation of the T/C is pretty poor too.
    Really abrupt and rough in action.
    I have it switched off most of the time.
    I'm no Colin MacRae, but my throttle foot is infinitely better at comfortably controlling wheelspin than Audi's T/C.
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    Yea you guys are right... i'd only be wasting my money & time on a car I know I wouldn't be happy with because I wouldn't be able to get the most out of it.
    Man it's such a shame - my A3 is so rare with all the features it's got! but i'm going to get another car in the meantime to keep me going. Not a small car though so i'm going to get an A4 1.9TDI. Not to modify but to keep me & the family happy. Think it makes sense.

    Well it just needs a service and late/after january it's going up for sell... uhhh I thought i'd never sell it heh
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  8. #7
    lil_coz's Avatar
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    I'd say your making the right choice. You never know, as soon as you get the other car and start fiddling with it, you'll forget all about the one you got now!

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    Heh yea I hope so. It's killing my mate, finding it really really tough but it would just be a waste of money in the end...

    Better sell it before the value goes lower because the mileage is getting higher!

    I was also thinking if not A4 1.9TDI... i'd go for the Golf MK4 TDI Anniversary Edition... we'll see
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  10. #9
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    personally I cannot wait to get rid of my A3 , sick of warrenty problems , and expensive service bills

    i don not expect to have to-have things like wheel bearings , and cylinder heads replaced , at 30,000 miles, what this car going to be like out of warrenty ?????????

    I have lost all faith in the reliability , and therefore its going after christmas
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  11. #10
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    Difficult for anyone to comment accurately about your experiences. All I can say is that having travelled many 100's of thousands of miles in VAG products and have had few problems.

    Bit surprised that Audi even entertain warranty claims when, it seems that, the car has been modified extensively. Good luck with your new Daewoo!!

    Cheers

  12. #11
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    I thought this was going to be one of the most powerful diesels around!!!!
    Sold: A3 2.0 TDI 170 S-line | Full leather | BOSE | Phantom Black | Bluefin
    Now: Mini John Cooper Works

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt
    I thought this was going to be one of the most powerful diesels around!!!!
    lol you remembered Matt! hehe i'm really eating my words now mate =/ I mean I knew about modifications etc and what to do but never thought that FWD wouldn't be able to handle anything over 200+bhp...

    If it could i'd keep the car no problem, it's actually very rare in my eyes.

    Just gonna get through new year, then sell it on hopefully or maybe before that if I get the price I want right away without no squabbling.

    Afterwards I got a few cars in mind:-

    1) Golf Mk4 TDI/GTI Anniversary
    2) Audi S3 8L (worried about economy...)
    3) Audi A3 8L 1.9TDI 130 Quattro
    4) Audi A4 B6 1.9TDI 130
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  14. #13
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    What car u thinking of next?

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by emzino
    1) Golf Mk4 TDI/GTI Anniversary
    2) Audi S3 8L (worried about economy...)
    3) Audi A3 8L 1.9TDI 130 Quattro
    4) Audi A4 B6 1.9TDI 130
    Option 1 is doubtful because there's only a few around and the few remaining have very high miles. I really want something with low miles on the clock.

    Option 2 is not winning over my mum who will also be using the car. She wants something more practical (5door) plus downgrading from the 8P to the 8L is making her go ape! Let's not forget the economy!

    Option 3 is just like Option 2, the downgrade is not making her happy plus i'd rather not go from 8P TDI > 8L TDI just for the Quattro... so i'll leave that out.

    Option 4 on the other hand is much more realisic. I've seen A4 Sports and they look amazing! It's just that the ones i've seen on Autotrader & Pistonheads seem to worse than I expected: high mileage with high value on the car... if I want one with less miles i'm looking at spending more than i'm going to sell the A3 for!

    Might just sell it, split the money with mum to let her get a practical car for herself then save up to get the S3 8L. I've always wanted one
    Audi A3 (8P) 2.0TDI SE .:. Ebony Black, Sports Suspension, Vienna Beige Sports Leather Seats, Concert II & BOSE, 6 CD-Changer, Xenons, Acoustic Parking Sensors & All The Packs .:.



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  16. #15
    N8
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    I'd just keep the A3, none of the above are a "step up" imo, your choice pal.

  17. #16
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    I know =/ but it's just a temporary step down until I get enough money for a 2.0TDI Quattro... I need that 4wheel drive on a diesel and then the gloves are off. In the meantime, I wouldn't mind trying out any of the above.

    I really want the S3 thoug, that'd be a dream!
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  18. #17
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    I once read an article (I don't remember where) which did a back to back comparison of several otherwise identical Audis with quatro vs 2wd.

    The conclusion was that in dry conditions there was little difference under 250bhp. In the wet the quattro was noticably better - but not critically. 2wd will spin the wheels more, and require much more driver finesse, but isn't nescessarily a problem unless you are doing timed laps.

    Having owned quattro and 2wd I actully find the 2wd more fun since it requires more skill. The quattro was boring because you just planted the throttle and off it went with no drama at all.
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  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by N8KOW
    Quattro only comes into play with 300bhp+ cars....
    Rubbish! Even our standard A4 TDI 130 struggles for grips at times. With hindsight we'd have gone for Quattro.

  20. #19
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff
    Rubbish! Even our standard A4 TDI 130 struggles for grips at times. With hindsight we'd have gone for Quattro.
    Well I agree with Marclad2020.
    No way does 140/170 bhp need quattro.
    It would be nice in snow, but there's no need for it otherwise.
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  21. #20
    N8
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    Preciesly bowfer, my cousins 225bhp does not need quattro. Cars under 300bhp with the audi quattro are very heavy and lose alot of power!

  22. #21
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    Obviously it depends on what you mean by struggling for grip. If you are heavy handed with the throttle then any 2wd car is going to spin its wheels coming off a wet roundabout. A quattro is better mannered, but ultimately not much faster in the same circumstances - nothing that can't be controlled by a little driver sensitivity.

    I would say that if you really want to make your car handle 250+ horsepower then learn how to drive it properly on a track rather than experiment with quattro on public roads. One of the dangers is that quattro raises the control threshold and when it does come unstuck you are going to be traveling much more quickly than otherwise = bigger accident.
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  23. #22
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    Well said Mark lad.

  24. #23
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    Hmmm this changes things... I was just worried that if I was at a strip and cruising in 2nd then planted it, i'd just spin off into a wall! It'd be even worse if I turned off ESP...

    (dry road)

    Am I right in thinking the above @ above 200bhp
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  25. #24
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emzino
    It'd be even worse if I turned off ESP...
    This is hard to put into words, but you're actually better off without ESP, when it comes to wheelspin.
    ESP controls wheelspin in a very crude manner, by applying the brakes to whichever wheel is spinning.
    Honestly, it's bloody awful, especially on acceleration wheelspin, rather than understeer wheelspin.
    It makes for very lurchy progress, because the physical time it takes to do it's thing, although small, is noticeable.
    If you leave it switched off, the wheels actually spin more smoothly and you can control it with your throttle foot much more comfortably, and without the awful jerking.
    The trouble is, switching ESP off takes the stability control off too, so an inexperienced driver could, when faced with a rear end slide, lose it altogether.
    I'm quite comfy controlling slides though, so I leave it off.
    Shame you can't seperate traction control and ESP.
    Ignition/ECU controlled traction control is much better than simply applying the brakes to the spinning wheels, which is a tad old fashioned.
    Some BMW's, for example, allow you different settings for the T/C.
    No wheelspin, some wheelspin, loads of wheelspin.
    You can't do that when all you're doing is applying the brakes to the spinning wheel.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 17th December 2007 at 13:41.
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  26. #25
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    I agree with the t/c being a bit off. Kicks in a little to early.

    I test drove a quattro 170 and the guy from Audi told me to give it the full beans. He was like my co-driver telling me what was coming up and what the car could do round corners that were coming up. Fair to say that I didint need asking twice so went for it. Full throttle off roundabouts, blasting round country lanes etc. Hitting 120 down A roads! Didnt hesitate the t/c one bit!

    I got given a 170 FWD before my car arrived and I had the t/c kicking in every now and then and my driving was not as agressive as the one I test drove. Now a FWD car wont be dangerous, so no worries of spinning off. FWD will only be dangerous if driven like as a$s but it'll be the same for quattro.

    Depends on how much you plan on modifying the engine. As a general rule of thumb, FWD cars can handle up to 220-250bhp tops. But its the torque of the diesel you gotta take into account...

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    Hmmm this changes things... I was just worried that if I was at a strip and cruising in 2nd then planted it, i'd just spin off into a wall! It'd be even worse if I turned off ESP...

    (dry road)

    Am I right in thinking the above @ above 200bhp
    Very unlikely. Take a course at a skid-pan and get used to handling a car at its adhesion limit and then you will be better placed to judge, but its almost impossible to crash a FWD car in the way you described unless you are very inexperienced, or a complete muppet.
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    I thought the ESP used ignition traction control as well as brake application? At least it feels like it - the engine seems to flatspot and you get a bit of brake application to keep you on the same line.

    I once had an 8L which had brake traction control only and the difference in smoothness was noticeable.

    But you are right - it's not the smoothest system, probably because it is designed to protect rather than enhance.
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  29. #28
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    [QUOTE=marklad2020]I thought the ESP used ignition traction control as well as brake application? At least it feels like it - the engine seems to flatspot and you get a bit of brake application to keep you on the same line. /QUOTE]

    Well,it sort of uses components of both, kind of thing....
    Others are moving away from using any part of the braking system to control wheelspin though, as it does result in a crude operation.

    Ever tried 'second guessing' the traction control?
    I'm afraid I'm old school, I'm used to cars without T/C.
    So when I detect wheelspin, I'm used to gently backing off the throttle.
    The trouble is, I seem to do it at exactly the same time as the T/C kicks in, so the effect is horrendous!
    It's honestly like I've switched off the igntion, and the car can take what seems like ages to recover.
    All the time, I have no drive at all and I often get thrown forward in my seat.
    The correct procedure would be to just stay on the throttle and let the car sort it out.
    I just can't do it though.
    My foot is the only traction control I need.
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    I would definitely say i'm not an inexperienced driver or muppet heh. I am good at judgement and seeing ahead but just inexperienced in terms of advanced driving like skidding etc. I think I should take some kind of course like the skid-pan you suggested...

    Either way, I think I might just keep the car knowing that I won't get my money back once i've done the mods =/

    Now would you be able to live with that knowing that the car is coming upto 60k miles? Would it matter to you or would the fact that the car is rare (spec list) and you love it! (of course), not bother you at all...

    Maybe i'm not ready for the S3 8L yet. I believe I am but think I should wait abit more.

    What would YOU do? I mean i'm going to do what I want to do but I like to hear others opinions.

    The above aside, i'd like to thank all of you sincerely for helping me think more and actually learn more too. Really do appreciate it =)
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  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by emzino
    Now would you be able to live with that knowing that the car is coming upto 60k miles? Would it matter to you or would the fact that the car is rare (spec list) and you love it! (of course), not bother you at all...
    If the question is, would I chip a car that had already done 60k miles?
    I'd have to go no, sorry.
    I'm just not sure a part-worn engine can handle a huge jump in power.
    I have no proof to back me up, just my opinion.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 17th December 2007 at 15:45.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    No way does 140/170 bhp need quattro.
    It would be nice in snow, but there's no need for it otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by marklad2020
    Obviously it depends on what you mean by struggling for grip. If you are heavy handed with the throttle then any 2wd car is going to spin its wheels coming off a wet roundabout. A quattro is better mannered, but ultimately not much faster in the same circumstances - nothing that can't be controlled by a little driver sensitivity.
    I'm no nutter driver but there are plenty times that the big slab of torque simply overwhelms front grip. You don't even need to be particularly heavy on the throttle. On the occasions that I've had a Quattro I've not driven any fast but the car feels much more secure.

    However I agree with the comments about that most of the time it's not needed. I'd still rather have a Quattro for the times that it is useful

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    Personally I would just enjoy owning the nice car that you already own, and take advantage of lower running costs while you save up for the S3 that you really want.
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  34. #33
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    Sounds as tho I'm in the same boat as you. I want an S3, always have! I cant afford to run an S3 at the mo which is why I've gone TDI power, get a taster for Audis. Keeping this until I'm in the position to own one.

    Might not be a bad idea for you to do the same. I deafinately wouldnt downgrade to an 8L tho!

  35. #34
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    Depends what you class as a downgrade.....people are seeming to think because its the "old shape" then its a downgrade where really if its a 8L S3 then I would consider it a upgrade over a 8P TDI.
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  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Depends what you class as a downgrade.....people are seeming to think because its the "old shape" then its a downgrade where really if its a 8L S3 then I would consider it a upgrade over a 8P TDI.

    I agree, engine and performance is an upgrade but I was talking about it being an newer car with the new look.

  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    If the question is, would I chip a car that had already done 60k miles?
    I'd have to go no, sorry.
    I'm just not sure a part-worn engine can handle a huge jump in power.
    I have no proof to back me up, just my opinion.
    Oh no don't say that Bowfer =( that's what I think too... damnit I wish it was more like 30-40k, then I could justify my plans for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lil_coz
    Sounds as tho I'm in the same boat as you. I want an S3, always have! I cant afford to run an S3 at the mo which is why I've gone TDI power, get a taster for Audis. Keeping this until I'm in the position to own one.

    Might not be a bad idea for you to do the same. I deafinately wouldnt downgrade to an 8L tho!
    Yea I might keep it until March when I get my 1years no claims which gives me a total of 4years NCD. By then I would have saved up a healthy amount of money plus the winter will be gone & during winter time is when small niggles popup so any S3 owner would have fixed them by now rather than sell it as it is if you know what I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Depends what you class as a downgrade.....people are seeming to think because its the "old shape" then its a downgrade where really if its a 8L S3 then I would consider it a upgrade over a 8P TDI.
    See Jam that's what I thought as well but the interior on the 8P is lovely! and I noticed that the DIS is the same(?) or is it an older software version.

    Well the S3 8L will roughly set me back 30 a week on petrol will ain't all bad really seeing as I only do town driving. I can't take full advtange of the TDI because I just don't do any motorway miles at all which is where it comes into use the best.

    Hmm I need to test drive an S3 8L lol
    Audi A3 (8P) 2.0TDI SE .:. Ebony Black, Sports Suspension, Vienna Beige Sports Leather Seats, Concert II & BOSE, 6 CD-Changer, Xenons, Acoustic Parking Sensors & All The Packs .:.



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  38. #37
    N8
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    But why would you want to buy an older shape when you have the new shape? Its your choice man, just keep your car and save for the new S3.

  39. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff
    I'm no nutter driver but there are plenty times that the big slab of torque simply overwhelms front grip. You don't even need to be particularly heavy on the throttle.
    I know what you mean, but it's still controllable.
    With all due respect, it is only 140bhp/170bhp.
    It's not like you've turned on some sort of afterburner and you're suddenly staring death in the face.
    I was saying at the weekend, that my A3 must be virtually uncrashable.
    You'd have to be such a spaz to crash it through your own actions.
    It makes it nice and safe...but a bit dull at the same time.
    So the ESP goes on for the missus, off for me!
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 17th December 2007 at 16:48.
    '02 to '05 - Black Audi A4 1.9tdi sport
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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by N8KOW
    But why would you want to buy an older shape when you have the new shape? Its your choice man, just keep your car and save for the new S3.
    Just haven't got the money for it mate and I wouldn't have the money for it for a very long time neither heh. I'm only 21

    Right now what's going through my head is, 'can I justify spending a small fortune on my car with 60k on the clock'...

    I've also pretty much worked out that money on fuel for the S3 8L will double what I spend on the TDI now. I think I need to drive around where I normally drive and see if I can even really make use of the S3 8L's capabilities and if I couldn't, whether it would bother me or not
    Audi A3 (8P) 2.0TDI SE .:. Ebony Black, Sports Suspension, Vienna Beige Sports Leather Seats, Concert II & BOSE, 6 CD-Changer, Xenons, Acoustic Parking Sensors & All The Packs .:.



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  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by N8KOW
    But why would you want to buy an older shape when you have the new shape? Its your choice man, just keep your car and save for the new S3.
    Yeah, good call, 2nd hand S3 8P's can be picked up for 24k now (http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/303011.htm) with awesome tuning potential.

 

 
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