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Thread: Launching S3 8P

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    Launching S3 8P

    How exactly do you get a good 0-60 ( 0-100km/h ) ?

    I've tried a few tactics and all seem to end in clutch slippage or bogging badly ?

    my best time i ran last night was a 13.9 and 170km/h exit on a rather bad bogged launch ;(

    Cheers :>

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    Learning to fly 3D

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    That's the big problem with Quattro cars. The simple answer is be more brutal, thats what audi did to get the quoted times, if something breaks, and it often will doing acceleration testing, who cares the time is all that matters. You also need perfect conditions, engine oil temps, gearbox oil temps, etc etc.

    If on the other hand you own the car, and care for the car, then you need to get it rolling then boot it, but unless you mod it you won't get close to the quoted times.

    Once tried to get close in a 225 TT, using my datalogger from my caterham, the figures where way off, crashing the box with clutchless gear changes, and brutal side steps on the clutch to lauch got us within .5 second of the quoted 0-60 time, until the engine mount broke

    Chris.

    PS my 7 logged a 3.9 0-60 mph and a sub 1 second 70-80 time on the same day, but it was all done at 123 mph.
    Last edited by HeliChris; 20th July 2007 at 11:26.

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    I must admit in acceleration from a standing start the S3 is worse than any previous Haldex equiped car I have had. Try to launch quickly and it ends up losing best part of 1 second - as you say just bogging down.

    So would a haldex controller help with this - with say 60% to rear?
    Nothing to see here: Woofdoggy , move along please........

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    Having similar problems myself. Setting of normally, or normally/briskly or "blow-them-away-mode" the car bogs down, or isn't smooth. I've got it right once on a proper fast start, but no idea how I did it.

    My old 8L S3 used to bog down if you didn't give it enough revs. But this seems to bog down no matter what.

    In the 8P, I think its down to the clutch feel or perhaps the way the dual-mass flywheel is loading up. I think the biting point of the clutch is too "light", you can hardly feel it. Not an expert in how dual-mass flywheels work, but perhaps the way it loads up is causing the bogging down.

    Or are we just blaming the tools! And not ourselves!! hahaha

    AL
    '07 Phantom Black S3 - '07 to now - Bucket Seats, FBMFSW, BOSE, Symphony II+, Cruise Control, Elec Folding Mirrors, Front Centre Armrest, Rear Armrest & Through Load, Interior Light Pack, Luggage Pack, Reversible Boot Mat, Luggage net.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSS3
    How exactly do you get a good 0-60 ( 0-100km/h ) ?

    I've tried a few tactics and all seem to end in clutch slippage or bogging badly ?

    my best time i ran last night was a 13.9 and 170km/h exit on a rather bad bogged launch ;(

    Cheers :>
    Hi Way ... great to see you on the audi-sport forum as well

    Seems like you had a good run with the 13.9, but I agree, a mid 13.5 should be achievable with a good launch.

    I have another take on the matter which goes something along the lines of "less rev's on the 8P S3 is actually better".

    My logic is that the 2nd generation haldex is much more sensitive in picking up wheel slip - thus you don't need to dump 1000's of RPM onto it for good off the line traction.

    Whenever I get "too brutal on the revs" and "dump it too suddenly" I get a severe case of the "bogs".

    But in the past few days, running a new map for octane boosted fuel, the power has been rediculous and this method is simply not working.

    Enter the "gentler" approach:

    Last night tried a few launches with only about 3000 to 3400 RPM dialed in, and then a quick, but controlled slip of the clutch. Well - launches were perfect, with instant traction and I was quickly through 1st and into 2nd and 3rd.

    I'm going to try this a bit more and then try to confirm if there's potential in this method.

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    quite possible ...

    i found this on youtube ..


    0-100 8P 5.7sec

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7MBePi4sc

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    JamS3's Avatar
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    Why oh why would you do this in your own 30k car is beyond me!

    But respect other peoples wishes, have a look in this months Audi Driver and I think in the letters section it describes the best way for 0-60 times etc describing only 4 wheel drive cars have a specific tactic of achieving the best time.
    NOW - Audi S3 Facelift - Sprint Blue, RNS-E Sat Nav, SDS, Bluetooth Phone Prep, Bose, Cruise, Buckets, FBMFSW, Adaptive Lights, Int Light Pack, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Piano Black Inserts, Through Load, Auto Dim RV Mirror/Wing, Auto Wipers/Lights, Folding Door Mirrors, Heated Seats, Ipod Dock, Front Arm Rest, Rear/Front Parking Sensors, 1st Aid Kit, Rear Arm Rest, H + R Springs, Front 15mm Spacers, Rear 10mm Spacers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSS3
    quite possible ...

    i found this on youtube ..


    0-100 8P 5.7sec

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7MBePi4sc
    Very interesting - he seemed to go with about 3500 ... give it a try and let us know if we're onto something.

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    AL_B's Avatar
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    Jam,

    I believe the tactic is to pre-load the transmission, holding the car on the handbrake, clutch at hits biting point, and a decent about of revs say 2500-3000. This used to work a treat on the old S3 for me. Tried it on the new one and just can't get it right. Maybe I need more revs. But I hate how light the clutch is.

    AL
    '07 Phantom Black S3 - '07 to now - Bucket Seats, FBMFSW, BOSE, Symphony II+, Cruise Control, Elec Folding Mirrors, Front Centre Armrest, Rear Armrest & Through Load, Interior Light Pack, Luggage Pack, Reversible Boot Mat, Luggage net.
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    jamo s3

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    the best time i,ve had out of three runs in my standard 2007 s3 is 0-60=6.59 and 1/4=14.57 which i think is not too good. but i would say it was a very hot day at the inters and i was giving it full revs off the line. the front wheels did slip a little before the rears kicked in

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    aiculedtzu's Avatar
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    Yes it's true, you need to slip the clutch in order to get a good start.

    Now, with the power upgrade, i reach 100 kmh (62 mph) in around 4.7-4.8 sec and the quarter mile time is around 12.9-13.1 sec.

    Also found this on youtube and I wonder who's S3 is that
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOXc8qKVdhI
    Audi S3 2.0 TFSI quattro - Turbo-Back exhaust - Cold Air Intake - Uprated Fuel Pump - Upgraded Clutch - Upgraded Intercooler - Stage2+ Software

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    Quote Originally Posted by aiculedtzu
    Yes it's true, you need to slip the clutch in order to get a good start.

    Now, with the power upgrade, i reach 100 kmh (62 mph) in around 4.7-4.8 sec and the quarter mile time is around 12.9-13.1 sec.

    Also found this on youtube and I wonder who's S3 is that
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOXc8qKVdhI
    Thats awesome mate, nice one! How did you time your 0-62?

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    JamS3's Avatar
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    It may have been Evo that the letter was in thinking about it....
    NOW - Audi S3 Facelift - Sprint Blue, RNS-E Sat Nav, SDS, Bluetooth Phone Prep, Bose, Cruise, Buckets, FBMFSW, Adaptive Lights, Int Light Pack, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Piano Black Inserts, Through Load, Auto Dim RV Mirror/Wing, Auto Wipers/Lights, Folding Door Mirrors, Heated Seats, Ipod Dock, Front Arm Rest, Rear/Front Parking Sensors, 1st Aid Kit, Rear Arm Rest, H + R Springs, Front 15mm Spacers, Rear 10mm Spacers.

  15. #14
    aiculedtzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siu00adg
    Thats awesome mate, nice one! How did you time your 0-62?
    Well, i didn't but my mate with the M3 reaches 62 mph in 5.0 sec (measured it with G-tech several times). And because at 62 mph i have two and a half cars advantage i think my S3 should be at least 0.2 - 0.3 sec quicker than my firends M3.

    Here is the finish @ 402m
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhGpuUoiM90
    Audi S3 2.0 TFSI quattro - Turbo-Back exhaust - Cold Air Intake - Uprated Fuel Pump - Upgraded Clutch - Upgraded Intercooler - Stage2+ Software

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    Quote Originally Posted by aiculedtzu
    Well, i didn't but my mate with the M3 reaches 62 mph in 5.0 sec (measured it with G-tech several times). And because at 62 mph i have two and a half cars advantage i think my S3 should be at least 0.2 - 0.3 sec quicker than my firends M3.

    Here is the finish @ 402m
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhGpuUoiM90
    Sweetness! Can't wait to get the engine run in so I can get modding!

    Do you find the engine noise is any better/louder with the BMC induction?

  17. #16
    aiculedtzu's Avatar
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    No, at least from inside the car, the air intake sounds the same. But after the remap the turbo is a lot louder and you can hear the DV (diverter valve) working full time :-)
    Audi S3 2.0 TFSI quattro - Turbo-Back exhaust - Cold Air Intake - Uprated Fuel Pump - Upgraded Clutch - Upgraded Intercooler - Stage2+ Software

  18. #17
    siu00adg's Avatar
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    Cool,

    ever thought about getting one of these..?

    http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/con...oduct=FMFSITVR

  19. #18
    aiculedtzu's Avatar
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    On the S3 the DV problem is not critical, unlike at the normal 2.0 TFSI (200 Hp), because they changed the location of the DV, which now is located in the front, just after the fans.
    At the normal 2.0 TFSI the DV is located on the turbo and in many cases it broke down because of the increased boost pressure and especially because of the high temperatures.

    Anyway, i'm thinking of getting one just to be safe.
    Audi S3 2.0 TFSI quattro - Turbo-Back exhaust - Cold Air Intake - Uprated Fuel Pump - Upgraded Clutch - Upgraded Intercooler - Stage2+ Software

  20. #19
    jamo s3

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    i was advised to get one today after my remap because it is the boost level that will kill it, so we have left the boost a little bit lower until i have one he also told me that my exhaust is very restrictive, and this is one route i don,t want to go down again. so i had a panal filter put in and might get a dv and take it up to about 310 and thats me happy

  21. #20
    aiculedtzu's Avatar
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    310 Hp is safe without any other modifications. The DV is a common problem for the 200 Hp TFSI engine (where the DV is mounted on the turbo - so very hot place), not for the S3 where it was relocated in a cold place.

    Anyway, even on this forum are some remapped S3's with more than 310 HP and they are just fine because not the high boost kills the DV, but the high temperatures !
    Audi S3 2.0 TFSI quattro - Turbo-Back exhaust - Cold Air Intake - Uprated Fuel Pump - Upgraded Clutch - Upgraded Intercooler - Stage2+ Software

  22. #21
    jamo s3

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    well im no expert as you can tell but i tend to take there advise more often than not, he also said that he has seen blown turbos on these engines already from people trying to hold too much boost for example about 1.8bar

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    Ok !!

    i played around with this on the weekend and to my suprise the car seems to have some kind of safety mechanism built in - it pulls the power if you step the clutch anywhere over 5500.

    I managed to get a few awesome launches off with the car between 3500 and 5000, you have to whind it a little and catch it as youre coming up. Step the clutch , the wheels give a little crirrpp and off you go without bogging it down.

    I'll be doing some vbox runs tonight to get some 1/4mile and 0-60 times.

    Car has a few changes to it so i'm hoping to get some decent figures!

    My guess is around 13.1 @ 171km/h ( i ran a 13.9 @ 170 on Thursday with a horrible bog )

  24. #23
    aiculedtzu's Avatar
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    13.1 with the stock S3 ? It's impossible mate.
    13.6-13.7 it's the lowest you can go with a perfect start.
    Audi S3 2.0 TFSI quattro - Turbo-Back exhaust - Cold Air Intake - Uprated Fuel Pump - Upgraded Clutch - Upgraded Intercooler - Stage2+ Software

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSS3
    .

    Car has a few changes to it so i'm hoping to get some decent figures!

    My guess is around 13.1 @ 171km/h ( i ran a 13.9 @ 170 on Thursday with a horrible bog )
    never said it was stock ... car made 202kw on the wheels ( 270whp )

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    aiculedtzu's Avatar
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    Sorry, i've missed that. :-)
    Good luck.
    Audi S3 2.0 TFSI quattro - Turbo-Back exhaust - Cold Air Intake - Uprated Fuel Pump - Upgraded Clutch - Upgraded Intercooler - Stage2+ Software

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSS3
    Ok !!

    i played around with this on the weekend and to my suprise the car seems to have some kind of safety mechanism built in - it pulls the power if you step the clutch anywhere over 5500.

    I managed to get a few awesome launches off with the car between 3500 and 5000, you have to whind it a little and catch it as youre coming up. Step the clutch , the wheels give a little crirrpp and off you go without bogging it down.

    I'll be doing some vbox runs tonight to get some 1/4mile and 0-60 times.

    Car has a few changes to it so i'm hoping to get some decent figures!

    My guess is around 13.1 @ 171km/h ( i ran a 13.9 @ 170 on Thursday with a horrible bog )
    I think I'm going to patent this "low RPM" launch technique - if it works you can pay me royalties !

    PS. Did you ever manage to log a VAG Dyno using block 120 ?

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    JamS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSS3
    Ok !!

    i played around with this on the weekend and to my suprise the car seems to have some kind of safety mechanism built in - it pulls the power if you step the clutch anywhere over 5500.

    I managed to get a few awesome launches off with the car between 3500 and 5000, you have to whind it a little and catch it as youre coming up. Step the clutch , the wheels give a little crirrpp and off you go without bogging it down.

    I'll be doing some vbox runs tonight to get some 1/4mile and 0-60 times.

    Car has a few changes to it so i'm hoping to get some decent figures!

    My guess is around 13.1 @ 171km/h ( i ran a 13.9 @ 170 on Thursday with a horrible bog )

    Did you do this when the engine was cold by any chance?

    I was told the car wont let you rev past this limit when the engine was cold to avoid damaging it.

    My Dads Polo Gti did the same, not tried it on mine and won't do!
    NOW - Audi S3 Facelift - Sprint Blue, RNS-E Sat Nav, SDS, Bluetooth Phone Prep, Bose, Cruise, Buckets, FBMFSW, Adaptive Lights, Int Light Pack, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Piano Black Inserts, Through Load, Auto Dim RV Mirror/Wing, Auto Wipers/Lights, Folding Door Mirrors, Heated Seats, Ipod Dock, Front Arm Rest, Rear/Front Parking Sensors, 1st Aid Kit, Rear Arm Rest, H + R Springs, Front 15mm Spacers, Rear 10mm Spacers.

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    Sundoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamS3
    Did you do this when the engine was cold by any chance?

    I was told the car wont let you rev past this limit when the engine was cold to avoid damaging it.

    My Dads Polo Gti did the same, not tried it on mine and won't do!
    That would be completely stupid, unless you dont have any respect for the engine. I dont think any S3 owner would high rev there cars when the engine is still cold.

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    reving a cold engine is a complete folly, speak with any race engineer, rally, touring car, etc. they all start car and rev to 7000/8000 revs for 10 seconds or so, the worst thing you can do is start a car on a freezing morning and leave it ticking over, by reving a cold engine very quickly splashes the internals with oil.

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    ok, so the best thing to do is to rev the engine a bit while you are stationary, and then after you have pulled away keep the revs low for a few miles to let the engine warm up?

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    Last edited by mitch78; 28th February 2009 at 22:45.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

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    Last edited by mitch78; 28th February 2009 at 22:45.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

  34. #33
    Sundoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shane j
    reving a cold engine is a complete folly, speak with any race engineer, rally, touring car, etc. they all start car and rev to 7000/8000 revs for 10 seconds or so, the worst thing you can do is start a car on a freezing morning and leave it ticking over, by reving a cold engine very quickly splashes the internals with oil.
    Well you cant compare a race engine to a street engine and how long do you think a race engine last?
    Well you can do that to your engine, be my guest but hell no im not gonna rev my engine to redline when I start it . And on freezing mornings I start the engine and after a minute or two I drive, but I keep it under 3000 until the oil is warm . And in my opinion its still insane to do 0 - 60 when the engine is cold.

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    Cold eh ? no ...

    I used to own a modified MY05 Subaru Impreza WRX STi for 2 years doing event with it all the time. Not the sort of car your drive out the garage in the morning without even checking the oil etc.

    So no .. i have alot of mechanical compassion ( even more cause it's my own car ) But i do also like to learn the limits of the car and driving properly.

    As for the low rpm launch - i suspect the ECU is pulling power to not hurt the drivetrain - my Impreza you launched it at limiter on 0.3 bar boost off the line, breaks traction all the way through 1st ( 0-60 in 4.2ish )

    Loving the S3 though ... much more refined drive and linear power delivery.

  36. #35
    JamS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundoo
    That would be completely stupid, unless you dont have any respect for the engine. I dont think any S3 owner would high rev there cars when the engine is still cold.
    Well you don't know that do you, some may on here. There is a massive difference of opinion whether it will do any damage or not.

    After all quite a few seem to want to test the limits of the gearboxes and clutch by trying to get the lowest times...
    NOW - Audi S3 Facelift - Sprint Blue, RNS-E Sat Nav, SDS, Bluetooth Phone Prep, Bose, Cruise, Buckets, FBMFSW, Adaptive Lights, Int Light Pack, Tyre Pressure Monitor, Piano Black Inserts, Through Load, Auto Dim RV Mirror/Wing, Auto Wipers/Lights, Folding Door Mirrors, Heated Seats, Ipod Dock, Front Arm Rest, Rear/Front Parking Sensors, 1st Aid Kit, Rear Arm Rest, H + R Springs, Front 15mm Spacers, Rear 10mm Spacers.

  37. #36
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    Not sure whether this has been mentioned. But after several attempts. I found the best way to launch the S3 is to take the ESP off and then back on after you've launched (dependant on weather). Ive tried many many times and you cant launch unless you rev really high. However taking the ESP makes a huge difference. Be safe.
    Cheers
    Kam

    07 S3, Sprint Blue, Bucket Seats, DVD Navigation, Bose, 6 CD, Cruise Control,
    Interior Light Pack, Rain & Light Sensor Pack, Armrest, Phone Prep, Heated Autodimming + Folding Door Mirrors, Flat Bottom Steering Wheel, Tracker, BBS CH 19" Rims, Pentagon Light Smoke Tints, Road Pilot Micro (Hardwired).

 

 

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