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  1. #1
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    HELP!! Symphony II to Symphony II+ Strange Radio Problem

    Managed to get my hands on a totally mint condition Symphony II+ Radio from a 2007 A3 Sportback, exactly the same model as mine. Got the Quadlock cable from Kufatech.de and told them specifically what I needed the cable for and that I had the Bose Sound System (the Bose GND wire is linked to the CD GND wire on it so they took heed). Put the Symphony II+ in and the following behaviour happens:

    • When the engine is off the FM/AM radio reception is absolutely fine.
    • I start the engine. About 10 seconds after I have started the engine, it loses it's reception completely as if the aerial is disconnected, but it is definitely securely connected.
    • Leave the engine running. Switch the radio off and then on again and it will cut the reception out after 10 secs. I've tried changing all the radio settings (RDS, GALA etc.) but it does this systematically.
    • Switch the engine off. Switch the radio off and then on again and the reception is fine.
    Took it to some engineers (thanks guys) who had a look using VAGCOM and they say the radio isn't coded for Bose, and also that the coding radios for Symphony II+ is slightly different. It will not accept the code.

    Has anyone ever had this problem before or even better do they know of a fix? I'm sure it has to be rectified. The strangest thing is the CD player is totally fine and works a treat, audio CDs, MP3 CDs the works! I really like this radio and hope to get over this one quirk.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

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  3. #2
    Learning to fly 3D

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    Its sounds like an aerial amplifier problem. It was my understanding that VAG golf based cars have an aerial amplifier powered through the aerial connection. Maybe the Symphony II+ does not power an amplifier because it maybe has it built into the Symphony II+. This would explain why the Symphony II has good reception, but not the Symphony II+

    I have seen a hidden menu on my Symphony II+ which shows aerial signal strength for two aerial which you can switch between for testing. Maybe this is also new functionality which is not backwardly compatible. You may need to change your aerial(s)/amps/wiring.

    Chris.

  4. #3
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeliChris
    Its sounds like an aerial amplifier problem. It was my understanding that VAG golf based cars have an aerial amplifier powered through the aerial connection. Maybe the Symphony II+ does not power an amplifier because it maybe has it built into the Symphony II+. This would explain why the Symphony II has good reception, but not the Symphony II+

    I have seen a hidden menu on my Symphony II+ which shows aerial signal strength for two aerial which you can switch between for testing. Maybe this is also new functionality which is not backwardly compatible. You may need to change your aerial(s)/amps/wiring.

    Chris.
    Cheers Chris.

    How can I access this hidden menu?
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  5. #4
    Learning to fly 3D

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    Select FM, then press and hold the Menu button and keep holding until it goes into TEST mode (the screen first shows the menu, then the main screen again, then the Test screen). It looks like this just shows the signal strengh and the status of each antena.

    Hope you get it sorted.

    Chris.

  6. #5
    JohnS3's Avatar
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    Was your car opriginally fitted with a Symphony 2? If so read on ......

    I think this has more to do with the two different diversity antenna systems fitted to the cars.

    The Concert 2+ and Symphony 2+ are expecting to see two HF antenna inputs on the back of the unit. I believe the earlier headunits have one HF input and one ZF output, this is definately the case for the RNSe.

    In the case of the 2+ headunits, both antennas in the rear window are wired so the headunit can decide which has the better reception and switch acordingly. The early units have an output back to the antenna system in the tailgate which decides which antenna or how much gain to use.

    Without a rewire you may have no luck fixing this. You can certainly fix it by fitting an RNSe (DVD Sat Nav) as you already have the correct antenna wiring for this unit. If you want mp3 track names then use the SD card option.

    It's actually a reverse case senario if anyone has gone from a factory 2+ headunit to an RNSe. That thread had been covered over on tyresmoke and navplus.us.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards, John.


  7. #6
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnS3
    Was your car opriginally fitted with a Symphony 2? If so read on ......

    I think this has more to do with the two different diversity antenna systems fitted to the cars.

    .......
    It's actually a reverse case senario if anyone has gone from a factory 2+ headunit to an RNSe. That thread had been covered over on tyresmoke and navplus.us.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards, John.
    Cheers,

    Yep. I had a Symphony II unit originally. This Symphony II+ has the quadlock connector on the lower right and the ariel and diversity antenna points on the lower left. The Kufatec cable also had adaptors for all of these. I'm just amazed that everything works when the engine is off.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  8. #7
    s8craig's Avatar
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    I would suggest maybe disconnecting the diversity lead as a test (yellow)

  9. #8
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s8craig
    I would suggest maybe disconnecting the diversity lead as a test (yellow)
    WIll give it a go right now. Cheers.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  10. #9
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s8craig
    I would suggest maybe disconnecting the diversity lead as a test (yellow)
    Ok everybody. And the results are as folllows:

    I can't believe this but it appears that the antenna connection didn't appear to be a secure one. What the red-herring was, was the systematic way the problem occured. My wife suggested we check out your suggestion right now (so that she wouldn't have to put up with my grumpy behaviour over this episode, and ensure I don't spend hours on the forums). Tell a lie she's very supportive.
    We also tried the diversity lead connected and it worked, so long as I pushed the connection for the antenna and adaptor together (supplied by Kufatec). So I have to say I'll give this a try and make sure that what we found tonight is truly the answer to this problem.

    Thanks to all of you who helped. Looks like Kufatec really DID heed me.

    Cheers.

    Last edited by BennyB0Y; 24th June 2007 at 23:26.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  11. #10
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    Radio Coding for Bose?

    Regarding the Symphony II+ and Bose system, the old Symphony II used to flash "BOSE" on the screen when it started up, whereas the Symphony II+ just switches on, no logo or anything.

    Does anyone know if the radio needs to be coded at all so that it matches Bose's specified equalisation? Also how, because through VAGCOM it looks like the coding method for it is slightly different (requires a login of some kind).
    Last edited by BennyB0Y; 25th June 2007 at 10:11.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  12. #11
    timps's Avatar
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    Somone in the USA ran a test and found the coding did not alter equalisation on the old Symphony II it just switched the Bose logo on.

    The test also revealed the flat equalisation needed for the Bose amps was achived by grounding the Bose pin (labled GA on the Symphony II).

    If the GA pin is still grounded in the Bose harness on a new Symphony II+ (maybe labled something else on II+) then its reasonable to assume the equalisation will be ok.

  13. #12
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timps
    Somone in the USA ran a test and found the coding did not alter equalisation on the old Symphony II it just switched the Bose logo on.

    The test also revealed the flat equalisation needed for the Bose amps was achived by grounding the Bose pin (labled GA on the Symphony II).

    If the GA pin is still grounded in the Bose harness on a new Symphony II+ (maybe labled something else on II+) then its reasonable to assume the equalisation will be ok.
    Thanks for your reply. The cable from Kufatec has the Bose pin to GND. It's shared with the CD GND. Funny you say about the equalisation because the bass to the subwoofer from the Symphony II+ sounds a little better than with the Symphony II... or maybe it's just me.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  14. #13
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    Made a discovery yesterday. Connected up the Symphony II+ to check out the problem again (cos I'm still using the Symphony II for now). I only connected the power for unit and Internal CD Changer. Switched it on. The radio of course received nothing, no reception. If you stick a pin or paperclip into the Kufatec aerial connector to the unit to mimic the central pin of an RF aerial you get a reception. The reception kept up even when I switch the engine on and it didn't suffer that systematic cut-out after 10 seconds or so.
    Now the thing is, using the aerial connector present in the car I think it must be doing something with the GND shielding (shorting out or something) as this quirky 10 second cut-out remains. I'm going to try and shield it and see if this gets around the problem.

    Does anyone know if this is a good or bad thing to do?
    Last edited by BennyB0Y; 2nd July 2007 at 13:30.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  15. #14
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    Well what can I say... I'm gutted. Who'd have thought that a flippin' aerial connection could be so much of a problem? Why did Audi make the changes they had?

    It's all done so that this change will be a costly one. I really wish there was a simple way to switch things over from a II to a II+ but to no avail (so far), especially when the return on a sale is concerned.

    Why Audi... WHY??? Rant over...
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  16. #15
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    Hi JohnS3

    Found this link which says...

    Quote Originally Posted by From Link Above
    The Antenna 2 DTC "open circuit" is caused by the difference in the antenna layout between the '03 diversity switching antenna setup, and the B7 dual antenna arrays with seperate signal amps, sending seperate signals to the two Antenna inputs on the Sym II +. I have not been concerned about the FM relying on only one antenna signal, this defeats the dual switching digital tuner diversity scheme of the Sym II+, but my FM reception is fine as is, and I practically never listen to FM.
    The switching antenna diversity setup on the B6, can be changed to the dual signal/dual tuner diversity setup used on the B7, by removing the switching antenna amp/diversity box, installing the two antenna signal amps from the B7, and running a second HF coaxial antenna lead to the HU.
    OR, a splitter could by inserted in the existing HF coaxial cable, feeding both digital tuners with the same signal from the existing diversity switched antenna arrays, but this effectively defeats the Sym II+ dual antenna array/switched dual digital tuner diversity scheme also. And, without the feedback signal return on the ZF line back to the diversity box, that function is not active either. The relative need for a fully functioning FM/AM signal diversity, is dependent on the FM signal propagation characteristics and geography of the regional broadcast coverage areas applicable in each case.
    Reckon it could save any re-wiring, or am I just fooling myself for a last time before calling it a day?


    Quote Originally Posted by JohnS3
    Was your car opriginally fitted with a Symphony 2? If so read on ......

    I think this has more to do with the two different diversity antenna systems fitted to the cars.

    The Concert 2+ and Symphony 2+ are expecting to see two HF antenna inputs on the back of the unit. I believe the earlier headunits have one HF input and one ZF output, this is definately the case for the RNSe.

    In the case of the 2+ headunits, both antennas in the rear window are wired so the headunit can decide which has the better reception and switch acordingly. The early units have an output back to the antenna system in the tailgate which decides which antenna or how much gain to use.

    Without a rewire you may have no luck fixing this. You can certainly fix it by fitting an RNSe (DVD Sat Nav) as you already have the correct antenna wiring for this unit. If you want mp3 track names then use the SD card option.

    It's actually a reverse case senario if anyone has gone from a factory 2+ headunit to an RNSe. That thread had been covered over on tyresmoke and navplus.us.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards, John.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  17. #16
    JohnS3's Avatar
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    Hi Benny,

    Have you tried disconnecting the yellow antenna lead as per Craigs suggestion? Did that help?

    If you want to look at the actual wiring diagrams then please take a look at this tread on Tyresmoke...

    Tyresmoke thread

    I'm going to check out the re-wire option when I get some spare time.

    Regards, John.


  18. #17
    BennyB0Y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnS3
    Hi Benny,

    Have you tried disconnecting the yellow antenna lead as per Craigs suggestion? Did that help?

    If you want to look at the actual wiring diagrams then please take a look at this tread on Tyresmoke...

    Tyresmoke thread

    I'm going to check out the re-wire option when I get some spare time.

    Regards, John.
    Hi John,

    Have tried it without the yellow antenna and still there's something about the RF type antenna that cuts out when the engine is running. Cheers for the Tyresmoke link. Will check it out too.

    Thanks,

    Benny.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  19. #18
    mattandrew's Avatar
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    i have done an install for someone who had the diveristy system (concert in 05 A3) to a concert2+ and i am having issues with the aerials as described in the first post of this thread. I have removed the diveristy connector and just using the 50ohm HF connector, i have tried it on both the connectors on the back of the concert2+ but are still getting the problems.

    Does anyone know if it is possible to split the HF cable into two and connect to the concert.

    or any other suggestions
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  20. #19
    bris2004's Avatar
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    Signal dropping out

    BennyBoy, you have described perfectly the problem Im having after changing from concert 2 to concert 2+. I cant believe the only solution is to change the antenna system. Come on folks...There has to be a bright sparkout there who has sorted this problem without having to go to the expense and trouble of changing antenna amps etc. Somebody mentioned the Concert 2+ needs a hf feedback?

  21. #20
    JohnS3's Avatar
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    No, the concert 2+ needs 2 HF feeds from the rear amps. The RNSe/concert 2 needs 1 x HF from the rear amp and 1 ZF return to the rear amp. You can fit a golf diversity module to restore the diversity and improve reception, but that is only slightly cheaper than a full amp swop and rewire.


  22. #21
    bris2004's Avatar
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    Thanls for the reply John. Im thinking of going aftermarket double din, touch screen. JVC, PIONEER Etc. What do you think? NO more reception problems?

  23. #22
    aristides's Avatar
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    Well guys , since all of you changed from Concert 2 to a 2+ and i changed from 2+ to a RNS-e i believe that we need exactly what the other one has , right?

    I mean, i need the "older" amps and you need my "newer" amps installed in my car.
    I believe a trade would be a fair option dont you think?
    FOR SALE:

    RNS-e 2013 DVD, BK Version, NOT unit, DVD disc

    Steering ECU : 1k0 953 549 AH, ideal for Cruise Control retrofit

  24. #23
    JohnS3's Avatar
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    What a gent!


  25. #24
    aristides's Avatar
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    My assumption is correct, isn`t it John?
    FOR SALE:

    RNS-e 2013 DVD, BK Version, NOT unit, DVD disc

    Steering ECU : 1k0 953 549 AH, ideal for Cruise Control retrofit

  26. #25
    bris2004's Avatar
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    Hi Artisides, I installed the Concert + as a temporary measure until I saved up for a RNS-E. Hopefully that day isnt too far away. Sorry about that but I will need my current set up for the RNS-E.

    I hope you find somebody else to do a swap.

  27. #26
    aristides's Avatar
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    No worries mate, im sure there are a lot of people that did the change from 2 to a 2+ unit, so i`ll just wait!

    Go for the RNS-e 100%, it looks great and works just fine
    FOR SALE:

    RNS-e 2013 DVD, BK Version, NOT unit, DVD disc

    Steering ECU : 1k0 953 549 AH, ideal for Cruise Control retrofit

  28. #27
    JohnS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aristides View Post
    My assumption is correct, isn`t it John?
    It is for 2007 cars and newer. Older cars have different amps with slightly different connectors to the heated rear screen.


  29. #28
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    Hi everyone!!

    Sorry but I have been away from the forums for a long while (moving home, Credit Crunch, cutting costs of living etc.)
    Just to say (sadly) that I had to settle for keeping the original radio Symphony II and selling the Symphony II+ that I bought. I had an iPod dock in the Audi and although it's not mind-blowing, it does OK for listening to music you like (as a pose to the way some radio stations play 1 song as their 'new hit' every hour).

    Took the Audi on a trip around Ireland. Was brilliant. Covered about 1,507 miles of driving.
    Audi A4 2.0 TDI (140 PS) SE Avant, Parking Sensors, 17" OEM Alloys, Cruise Control, GSM Mobile Prep in Armrest

  30. #29
    bris2004's Avatar
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    I got the answer to the radio signal dropping out after 15 seconds.
    1. Open the top cover of the Concert 2+ (two screws)
    2. Remove the cd drive (two screws and one connector)
    3. Look inside the unit and you will see where the two cores from the Fakra connector go into the circuit board.
    4. Solder the two wires together with a small piece of soldered wire.
    5. Enjoy the sounds from your new head unit. This works 100%

  31. #30
    bris2004's Avatar
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    Sorry BennyBoy this fix was too late for you. I only tried it yesterday and its been working great ever since. Thanks for the nice comments about Ireland. Hope you come over again soon.

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bris2004 View Post
    I got the answer to the radio signal dropping out after 15 seconds.
    1. Open the top cover of the Concert 2+ (two screws)
    2. Remove the cd drive (two screws and one connector)
    3. Look inside the unit and you will see where the two cores from the Fakra connector go into the circuit board.
    4. Solder the two wires together with a small piece of soldered wire.
    5. Enjoy the sounds from your new head unit. This works 100%
    I dont suppose you have got any pictures of this have you?

    very intrigued to say the least!
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  33. #32
    bris2004's Avatar
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    Hi Scottie, I never thought of taking any pics.
    If you take your unit out and cant see the wires to be soldered let me know and I will take my unit out and take some shots.

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bris2004 View Post
    Hi Scottie, I never thought of taking any pics.
    If you take your unit out and cant see the wires to be soldered let me know and I will take my unit out and take some shots.
    ok cheers for that.

    I will have a pop at this on the weekend

    Now, as you have done so well on this, can you fix the blinkin cr error i keep getting come up on the stereo!!!
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  35. #34
    s8craig's Avatar
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    Ok, I never really thought that would work, but having just upgraded my S8 to MMI 3G and now requiring a HF/HF setup as opposed to the HF/ZF I currently have, I just made up an adaptor, single Fakra socket to 2x white Fakra plugs, installed it on my single HF antenna and plugged into the radio moule, wow, all my FM stations appeared.

    Thanks for the tip

  36. #35
    bris2004's Avatar
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    Thanks for letting me know Craig. Its great to know it worked.

  37. #36
    bris2004's Avatar
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    Just thinking out loud Craig...Why dont you make up more of the Fakra adaptors and sell them, as there are lots of people with this problem but might not like the idea of opening up their stereo or may not be good with a soldering iron.

  38. #37
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    Just like to say thanks again bris2004 for this tip

    Done the mod tonight and it all works perfect now.

    Both antennas are on in the test menu and reception is strong now.....Genius.

    Anyway , took a couple of piccies of the wire incase anybody wants to do this.



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  39. #38
    bris2004's Avatar
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    Great stuff Scottie. Thanks for the reply.

  40. #39
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    Sorry to bring this old thread up.

    But is soldering the two connections together is the same for the concert II+ and the Symphony II+ as i cant seem to get the cd drive out.
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  41. #40
    JohnS3's Avatar
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    Yes, both Concert II+ and Symphony II+ units use the same antenna system.


 

 
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