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  1. #1
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    Please help - just had a bump.

    Have posted this in 8L as well so apologies if you have read it there.

    Sorry very naive about these things. Just had my very first ever bump and wondering where I will stand insurance wise. Situation was this - coming up to a roundabout behind another car. The entrance splits into 3 lanes, the left hand of which is to filter left off the roundabout. This left lane is marked to continue straight around to the left i.e. no markings to stop. You are supposed to go straight round to the left. The guy in front approaches slowly and then moves off in the left lane. I briefly look to the right to make sure no one is cutting into the lane and when I look back he has slammed his anchors on for no apparent reason and I went into the back of him.

    The guy did not speak very good English and didn't seem to understand what I said about the road markings. I think he was trying to say he stopped because of another car, but if so I didn't see it. He did say it was his sons car and that he was on his insurance. We swapped details and left the scene.

    Getting home there is definite damage to my car as the bonnet won't go down properly and one of the headlamps is pushed in slightly.

    A couple of questions - where do I stand regarding insurance? I haven't admitted liability at the scene, but will I definitely be liable because I have run into the back of him. The police weren't involved - should I have called them?

    Sorry - so naive about this and wishing I knew more.

    Any suggestions gratefully received.

    Cheers,

    B.

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  3. #2
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    Fight your corner and argue your case strongly!!

    I had an accident where i hit the back of a car that pulled in front of me and then instantly braked. The insurance company accepted that the car in front was at fault as he reduced my braking distance to nothing with no warning.

    My wife pulled in front of a bus with a lot of distance between them (my wife claims) the bus shunted her in the rear 60m up the road at a T-junction but again my wife was found to be at fault for reducing the buses braking distance.

    Hope this helps, hope you get your car sorted soon mate.

  4. #3
    normski's Avatar
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    You don't need to report it to the Police, unless it turns out that he has no insurance. However, in the circumstances it sounds like mostly your fault with a slight help from him.

    Most insurance companies will sort between them a percentage of liability, lets say in this case perhaps 70/30 against you....he shouldn't have really stopped but did and you should have been able to avoid him by braking or whatever.

    If your car is cheaply repairable and his undamaged you might want to consider not going through insurance. Lets hope he doesn't throw in the day-after whiplash compo claim eh!

  5. #4
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    unfortuntely 'in the eyes of the law' this is 100% your fault - even though morally it isn't entirely your fault. Any driver on the road is entitled to use their brakes as hard as they like at anytime they feel it necessary - in which case, as a driver you always need to be able to pull up in the 'space which you can see to be clear' which in this case you mustn't have left enough room to allow for a quick stop + plus you obviously took you eyes off the road at the worst time you could have done to miss seeing him brake (admittedly unluckily and unfortunately!)

    I know its not what you want to hear but this is how the insurance will see it. With rear end shunts it is nearly ALWAYS the fault of the person behind as it is only they who could have avoided it by paying more attention and leaving enough space etc etc

    Steve

  6. #5
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    Steve .......... rubbish!!

    See my post above.

    Not the case when you have safe distance in front of you and a car enters your lane and reduces the safe braking distance you allowed .......... FACT!!!

  7. #6
    normski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coupe-se
    Steve .......... rubbish!!

    See my post above.

    Not the case when you have safe distance in front of you and a car enters your lane and reduces the safe braking distance you allowed .......... FACT!!!
    You may call Steve's reply rubbish, but have you read the OP?

    The other bloke didn't cut infornt of him, he was already there. The issue is that the bloke infront had no reason to stop which in itself could be considered Driving Without Due Car and Attention.

    Sounds to me like they are both liable to a degree and I would expect the insurance companies to share that view.

  8. #7
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    I went into the back of a nissan cabstar with no working brake lights that stopped in the middle of a large roundabout. I tried to argue it with the insurance company but the result was that didnt matter that he had no brake lights or where he stopped it was my fault for leaving enough distance to avoid the accident.
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  9. #8
    windsurfer

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve184
    unfortuntely 'in the eyes of the law' this is 100% your fault - even though morally it isn't entirely your fault.
    You will have a hard time not to be guilty. Sorry, mate! But you hit him! If you can prove that he braked without reason and suddenly and you did not had a chance you might get something, but this things are very difficult to prove, if not impossible...

    I would have called the police as sometimes the police report can help sort out clearly who is guilty... Best thing to do if the other car is not heavily damaged is just to fix your car privately and save your no claim bonus... If is not a big bump...

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  10. #9
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    You go into the back of someone and it's your fault, there are no exceptions. Doesn't matter if the guy slams his anchors on in the moddle of an empty motorway, you are liable as you did not leave room enough to stop safely.
    This has happened to both me and my other half. Empty roundabout, guy in front starts to go, then stops for no reason at all. Meanwhile you're busy looking right and wham, you've just lost your no claims bonus. Totally unfair, yes, but what's fairness got to do with driving law and insurance?

  11. #10
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    But what you don't realise, is that behind the scenes, your insurance company and the opposite number negotiate a balance in liability in this type of circumstance, and though you get stiffed for a claim, your insurance company don't just pay out everything for both sides. So though you feel that you are totally to blame, the reality is slightly different.

    I have given evidence on a number of occasions at County Courts etc. where insurance companies who can't agree a figure have it sorted by a stipe or judge.
    Last edited by normski; 1st April 2007 at 15:20.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by normski
    You don't need to report it to the Police,
    I thought you had to report ALL accidents to the police, big, small, damage, no damage, injuries or not!
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  13. #12
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    "I thought you had to report ALL accidents to the police, big, small, damage, no damage, injuries or not!"

    What? And you've actually got a driving licence?
    Scary stuff.

  14. #13
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    :edit:

    @staz

    Not at all. Apart from the obvious (injury etc) you only have to report if you damage public property eg bantam1 goes into the back of Mr Doofus who is then pushed into a bus shelter and knocks it over.


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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac

    What? And you've actually got a driving licence?
    Scary stuff.
    Er yeah cheers for the adult response there andymac.

    I think somone told me that when I first got my license and I've never had a bump so I've not had to find out if it's true or not
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by coupe-se
    Steve .......... rubbish!!
    No, he's quite right, the OP is 100% at fault.
    See my post above.
    Completely irrelevant. Someone pulling into your path and braking heavily is totally different to someone who is already in front of you and of whom you are aware. In the OP's case, he wasn't looking and ran into the guy in front - his fault - end of.

    It may sound harsh and I do know how easy it is to do as I've had a few very close calls doing exactly the same thing but, in the eyes of the law, he's at fault and will gain very little through arguing the point I'm afraid.
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  17. #16
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    Just gonna have to take this one on the chin I'm afraid........
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  18. #17
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    Guys, I think the most important here it's not how we determine who's fault it was, the debate will never settle; MOST LIKELY, the guy infront will claim that he needed to brake and he got ran into, Bantam1 will say the guy infront broke too sudden without apparent reason ... this will go back and forth I'm sure.

    What important here is stand strong on what you believe happened like what coupe-se said. Present your case with confidence to your insurance and hope for the best? I guess you have some advantage over the other driver because he doesn't speak fluent English ... have you consider calling him and discuss the incident again and (it is mean but...) maybe get/lure him to admit faults?

    Good luck!
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  19. #18
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    well... yeh i'm not sayin don't try and get out of some of the blame cos as i said 'morally' its not all your fault but even if the insurance co agree that it was 1% your fault and 99% other persons, it will still be a claim against you and you will still lose your no claims and have to declare it for the next 5 years which will prob cost you in excess of 500 over the next 5 years - you just gotta weigh up what costs more, the cost to repair both cars or what you lose in loss of no claims

  20. #19
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    Thanks all - does look like I'll be taking this one on the chin. Taking the car in to assess the cost later on. Waiting to hear what the other party will be claiming!

    I have protected NCD on my policy - now I'm wondering if this will turn out to be worth it. I have a modded (8L) S3 and haven't found a lot of insurers that are affordable to be honest. With Adrian Flux at the moment and wondering what my future premiums are likely to be. May just pay for repairs myself if they are not too hefty.

    Sorry I know this is not the insurance forum!

    Thanks for replies so far.

    B.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bantam1
    Thanks all - does look like I'll be taking this one on the chin. Taking the car in to assess the cost later on. Waiting to hear what the other party will be claiming!
    Just over five years ago, when I owned a four-month-old Ford Puma, I hit a van who pulled out on to a roundabout without warning. I had nowhere to go, and despite braking hard and turning across him, the NSF of my car hit his van just behind the driver's door.

    We swapped details - after the driver changed his home address half-way through, which seemed very dodgy - and left the scene. The Puma had a scuffed/dented wing, scuffed bumper and cracked headlight unit.

    Like you my excess was 500 to cheapen the policy cost, and with no real witnesses (no-one else stopped), and obviously 50/50 blame, I just sat on it. Sure enough, no claim dropped through on my mat. So six months later, I bought a new wing and headlamp cover for 140 from Ford, got in touch with a mate who worked at a Saab dealership, stripped the bumper off and he painted the new wing and bumper for 100. Refitted it all myself and the repair was perfect.

    Might sound dodgy to some but (a) I didn't have to claim, thus wrecking years of safe driving, (b) the car wouldn't have a Cat D recorded against it on the VCAR database, thus greatly lowering its value, (c) didn't have to fork out the first 500 of a repair which would have easily cost more than that at an approved bodyshop, and (d) absolutely zero hassle - insurance companies can be difficult to deal with even before I'd argued my case.

    My advice: If the car is safe to drive, just spend the next few weeks researching the damage and cost to repair. If nothing comes through, go ahead and repair it yourself.
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  22. #21
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    Cat D VCAR??? for a dented wing i dont think so.... thats only for written off cars - a car doesn't go on there just cos its had some damage!

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve184
    Cat D VCAR??? for a dented wing i dont think so.... thats only for written off cars - a car doesn't go on there just cos its had some damage!
    Either way, the insurance will record the incident on their shared databases which is very likely to show up on a HPI/Experian check, still lowering the car's value.
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