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  1. #1
    jamiekip
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    Pay as you go car tax.... I don't think so!

    Not sure if this is the right forum, but worth bringing to everyone's attention.
    Have a read and sign the petition:

    Subject: car tax

    Received this and thought it may be of interest to some of you:-

    Sign and pass it on. It only takes a minute. Deadline to sign up by: 20 February 2007
    The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it.

    The tracking device will cost about GBP200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was GBP28 for a rural florist and GBP194 for a delivery driver.

    A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid GBP86 in one month.
    On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect a NIP with your monthly bill.

    If you care about your freedom and stopping the constant taxation of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website

    http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/
    Please pass this on to anyone who owns a car/motorcycle. It affects them all.

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  3. #2
    Vertigo1's Avatar
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    Although I agree with the principle of the petition, the figures aren't quite as clear cut as you make them sound as they're proposing to abolish fuel tax and vehicle excise duty and replace them with this scheme. Although many people will end up paying more, the costs will be offset against the saving afforded by these tax cuts.

    As for the mum taking her kids to school, frankly I don't care about such people as they're the biggest cause of congestion in the mornings and a total pain. Put them on the bus or make them walk like I had to!

    The only good thing that would come out of such a scheme is that it would be the end of this infernal Labour government.
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  4. #3
    jamiekip
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    I agree with what your saying (and to be fair I dropped the content of an email I received in to this post!).
    I guess my fears come down to:
    It's all a bit Big Brother, even if they say they would not use the units you'd have to install to your car to track individuals activity, they could in the future. Giving the gov't the ability to potentially switch on auto speeding penalties if your car goes over a speed limit at any time is quite scary....

    Plus, it makes the whole taxing system a big variable.
    At the mo, you pay for your licence disc, and you fill up with gas - you know how many miles you get to a tank, so you can work it out.
    With this system, you may work out that you'd get charged a fortune for using, say the M1 on a Friday in rush hour (say to go home and visit the parents), so you try and use an alternative route, to keep costs down.... potentially going cross country and cretaing additional congestion elsewhere.

    And why go to the length of making everyone pay for these units in their cars, when we already have a tax system that makes those who use their car more to pay more.... it's the tax on petrol!!!! So kind of makes this feel like a pointless exercise now I think a bit more about it!

    I don't know how this will work fully, but I do know I really don't like the idea that the Gov't would 'potentially' be able to track my every move. It's just tooo big brother.

    What are others thoughts???

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiekip
    And why go to the length of making everyone pay for these units in their cars, when we already have a tax system that makes those who use their car more to pay more.... it's the tax on petrol!!!! So kind of makes this feel like a pointless exercise now I think a bit more about it!
    fuel duty only needs to be collected from a handfull of oil companies.

    You pay more fuel duty if you are using the roads more

    You pay more fuel duty if your car uses more fuel

    You pay more fuel duty if you sit on congested roads.

    Traffic congestion is self regulating. I mean the best way to deal with it is to leave it alone. Nobody will drive on the M25 between the M4 and M40 in rush hour unless they need to, most would avoid it if they can. It's like going to the supermarket at the most busy time, do you? only if you need to. most people try to pick a quiet time if they have the choice.

    Why do people use there cars more and more, cos they can't aford to live close to where they work.

    Hair brain goverment scheme, when they should be looking at incentives to not using the roads like home working where possible, school buses in residential areas as well as rurual areas. etc. etc.

    Sorry going to get off my soap box now.

    Chris.

  6. #5
    jamiekip
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    You're so right, it is self regulating, but the increased revenue from additional road users, where does it go?

    Funnily enough, a lot of people at work are discussing it over email and a lot of ideas coming to light....

    here's a few:
    - Get rid of traffic lights (they cause congestion!)
    - Improve the main motorways (better traffic flow)
    - Lorries etc to only run through the night and to pull over during rush hour
    - Stagger busy city centre businesses operating times!!!
    - more Police on the road that pull people on site if they just sit in the middle lane when they don't need to
    - Even more police on the road to arrest, fine and destroy all untaxed vehicles....... 1 in 13 cars has no tax or insurance..... sheeeesh!
    - set up school buses to stop the chelsea tractors!!!
    - subsidise greener, more environmental cars (Honda has I believe just shared its green technology for free with other motor manufactures).
    - Don't make being environmental the preserve of the rich who can afford it but the normal people like you and I who want to do things but cost can prohibit
    - ban caravans (my personal fave!!!)
    - ban tractors on roads from 7-9am and 4-6pm


    The environment would be better if we just improved traffic flow, decrease a journey time by 30% and you get 30% less pollution, but why is the infrastructure not developing inline with the need to keep the company moving????

  7. #6
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo1

    As for the mum taking her kids to school, frankly I don't care about such people as they're the biggest cause of congestion in the mornings and a total pain. Put them on the bus or make them walk like I had to!
    I sympathise and agree if you mean urban areas.
    I certainly hope you do. ;-)
    Around where I live though,many people have to drive their kids to school,as the buses are once a week and they're full of cattle going to market...

    I always think there's actually little in the way of punishment for those that dodge their road tax.
    It is not linked to insurance,so your insurance is NOT void if your car isn't roadtaxed.
    So that's one 'scare tactic' right out the window.
    There's also little chance of you being caught and,even if you are,the fines aren't massive.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 29th January 2007 at 16:04.
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  8. #7
    Caesium's Avatar
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    get rid of that poxy toll at dartford crossing, the congestion that causes is epic
    Chris

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  9. #8
    silver75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    the buses are once a week and they're full of cattle going to market....
    when I worked in a nightclub I used to get the bus to work and this sounds like that exact same bus

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  10. #9
    JohnS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo1
    The only good thing that would come out of such a scheme is that it would be the end of this infernal Labour government.
    I couldn't agree more!!!


  11. #10
    Vertigo1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    I sympathise and agree if you mean urban areas.
    I certainly hope you do. ;-)
    Oh of course, there are situations where there's genuinely no choice but to drive your kids to school. I'm on about the urban schools with perfectly good public transport links. Parents whose kids attend these types of school yet who still choose to drive their kids there should be taxed off the roads, end of.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamiekip
    Funnily enough, a lot of people at work are discussing it over email and a lot of ideas coming to light....

    here's a few:
    And another:

    Ban all learners during rush hour. Yes we all have to learn sometime but not during bloody rush hour ffs!
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  12. #11
    Amchlolor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo1
    Ban all learners during rush hour. Yes we all have to learn sometime but not during bloody rush hour ffs!
    Hear hear.
    Again,where I live,friggin tractors are a right pain in the arris.
    I swear the red-diesel-in-their-ML Merc-swines do it just to pee us off.
    Industrial machinery too.
    Sorry,but anyone driving a digger along a main road at 0830 in the morning should be shot.
    Don't go for a head shot though,as they evidently don't have a brain.
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  13. #12
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    Angry Rant!

    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro
    get rid of that poxy toll at dartford crossing, the congestion that causes is epic
    HoHo! Not only are they not going to get rid of it - which they were supposed to once the construction costs were recovered, they are going to increase the tolls to reduce congestion!!!!! As though there were some alternative crossing unless you have an amphibious vehicle!
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  14. #13
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    Can't wait for the new £6.7m signs on the M4. What a difference that'll make. Great to see them finally using our money effectively. Let's not try and relieve the congestion, lets spend the money just telling people about it!
    I would have loved to have been at the meeting when they signed that off!
    www.highways.gov.uk/M4J10-12
    Un****ingbelievable

  15. #14
    jamiekip
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo1
    Ban all learners during rush hour. Yes we all have to learn sometime but not during bloody rush hour ffs!
    Now that IS a good one!!!!

  16. #15
    jamiekip
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac
    Can't wait for the new 6.7m signs on the M4. What a difference that'll make. Great to see them finally using our money effectively. Let's not try and relieve the congestion, lets spend the money just telling people about it!
    I would have loved to have been at the meeting when they signed that off!
    www.highways.gov.uk/M4J10-12
    Un****ingbelievable
    This was where me and few colleagues got to today. They are willing to spend all the tax payers money, to take more money (congestion charging, implementing pay as you go taxes etc) or on pointless exercises, signs on the M4 telling you about the traffic jam you are sat in (geeee thanks!!) or those new highways agency SUVs, that are running 24/7 to help stricken motorists or sort out accidents (not that I disagree with them in principle, but surely the cost to have those things on the road is no that far off what it would cost to have dedicated motorway police, monitoring the way people drive - give them the ability to pull over middle lane huggers, tail gaters and the ability to check for tax, insurance etc).
    Yet they won't invest in helping improve the infrastructure - it's the same size roads (with added bus lanes, but no buses...gggrrrrr) but year on year increased volume of cars.... they must be getting more revenue out of the additional road users!

    Ranting again.....

  17. #16
    JohnS3's Avatar
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    Why not make the lanes on the motorways narrower so you can cram more cars on them. No, I'm not going mad......

    http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/11687.aspx


  18. #17
    jamiekip
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnS3
    Why not make the lanes on the motorways narrower so you can cram more cars on them. No, I'm not going mad......

    http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/11687.aspx
    I actually think we could get away with slightly narrower lanes (as mentioned in the link), though wonder how big rigs will cope in the slow lane????
    I actually think, if everyone had lane discipline, and always moved over, and when someone needed to get out, people let them out the world would be a happier place and we'd all get where we're going more quickly

  19. #18
    steeve's Avatar
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    We all ought to sign this petition.

    The fuel charge is likely to rise very steeply under New Labia, Gordon will use it to top up his empty coffers. It will also be used to track where you are or were. The police will have access to the data base and it will be used in crime resolution. And of course the very worst thing, it will bill you if you were speeding ....................................
    Steeve

 

 

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