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  1. #1
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    Possible 1st Speeding Ticket - Advice Please

    Driving to work this morning, some idiot pulled out in front of me so instead of braking hard I pulled out and went past him as the road was competely clear and very wide.

    It was only after passing him that I noticed a white transit van with a camera picture on the side and some guy at the back of it with a tripod pointing in my general direction about 100yds ahead. This van was on the opposite side of the road to me. I was doing about 37mph - 40mph in a 30mph zone at the time having passed this guy on a road wide enough for 3 cars on each side.

    1) As the van and camera were on the other side of the road, would he have been pointing the cam at me on the other side of the road or at the back of cars going past him on the same side as him?

    2) If it was pointing at me presumably I'll get a ticket, is it 3 points and 60?

    3) 1st offence in 20yrs of driving, are my premiums likely to be affected?

    Cheers guys.
    Last edited by cdb2; 22nd January 2007 at 11:08.
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  3. #2
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    Unlucky cdb2.

    I don't think 3 point would overly affect your premium, as to whether you got caught, you'll have to wait and see.

    This may be of help...

    http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Home/Menu1.htm

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  4. #3
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    Possibly your vehicle may not have been targeted as on other side of the road, if it is a SP30 and 3 POINTS, very unlikely to effect your insurance, wouldn't worry about it, also 37-40mph isn't that excessive, as the general rule of thumb is usually 10% +3mph (36mph) so you may get away with it...

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    Would you normally get 'got' by a guy with a tripod on the other side of the road or would he be zapping the backs of cars going past him?
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  6. #5
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    Unlucky - bad way to start the week!
    I always thought that they pointed up the road to catch speeding traffic coming towards them, not catching traffic after they have passed, so if they we're on the other side of the road pointing towards you, I'm afriad that doesn't look so promising. however, quite often the vans with camera's are used to check for insurance, MOT and tax rather than speeding offences so you may still get away with it.
    Sadly, only time will tell. Hopefully you'll keep that clean licence!

  7. #6
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    camera vans catch cars coming towards them, they work on the suprise element.

    People who work in these vans are the only people in my book who rank lower than parking attendants.


  8. #7
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    They definitely target vehicles coming towards them,rather than away.
    There is a chance,if you suspect the photo was taken as you swerved,that they missed you.
    Even if they got you,is it likely they got you on the 'wrong' side of the road ?
    If so,you could try arguing that you were trying to avoid an accident ?

    37mph in a 30 zone is 23% over the limit,which is actually quite bad.
    Same as being caught doing 86 mph in a 70mph zone.
    You'd probably get an SP30/£60/3 points,but I've heard of people getting more for these sorts of percentages.
    If you do get away with an SP30,I've yet to find an insurance company that loads a policy for it.
    They all seem to work on the basis that most people get one at some point,so why bother !
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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by madvw
    camera vans catch cars coming towards them, they work on the suprise element.

    People who work in these vans are the only people in my book who rank lower than parking attendants.
    I'll make you right, got done by these ****ers twice, 57 in a 50 on the A1 after being stuck behind a poxy van for MILES! and then on the A2 at 80 in what I thought was a 70, but as there was a cone left behind on the hard shoulder after some roadworks it was classified as a 50... 6 points and 380 quid fine...kerrrr ching!
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    [quote=Aldoalso 37-40mph isn't that excessive, as the general rule of thumb is usually 10% +3mph (36mph) so you may get away with it...[/quote]

    he wont... I got done for doing the same speed

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  11. #10
    I've got 6 points on my licence having been caught by camera vans on two occasions. When I told my insurance company it made no difference to my premium. These were only the 3rd and 4th time I had points added to my licence in 40 years of driving. The previous ones were also for exceeding the speed limit but by unmarked police cars.
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    Bowfer - u got m worried now!

    If I was doing 40mph, what is the worse I can get?
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    LMAO !
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    My SP30 made my premium increase by about £30 for the first year but after that it didn't make any difference. 3 years on now it makes no difference.
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  16. #15
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    I was sure I had been done in a similar situation so I pulled into the layby, tapped on his side window to be informed that he had got me at 63 in a 50 and to expect a NIP. He was really friendly and even showed me the laser system etc and looked like Tony Heart. I never heard another thing about it, no points nothing!

    Firstly:- These vans can target any direction of traffic. Usually they have a laser system and a portable gatso type camera. They use the laser to target oncoming and only set up the mini-gatso when its donut time.

    The opperators of these vans are often civvies or safety partnership workers so all the footage has to be analysed, often by a Traffic policeman. They will/should at least take account of the twonk who pulled out on you

    The vans are also used to check for road tax etc so it may not have even been monitoring your speed.

    3 points can effect your insurance premium depending on your insurer. Direct line tried to put my premium up by £300 though Privilege (same company) put it up £20. Thats the annoying thing as it effects your insurance for 5 years!

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    I fear I was prob out of view when I went past the twonker so on the video they'll just see me going too fast, albeit slowing.
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    i think you have to be doing really bad like 55 plus to get a summons - anything under is dealt with by fixed penalty SP30. I got caught doing 56 a few years back in a 30 (i was trying to defend my space on the road as some idiot was trying to jump the queue and barge in) and the police ossifer gave me a fixed penalty for this - he said had it have been 57 it would have been a summons and at least 6pts plus larger fine.

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    What annoys me is if it wasn't for this idiot pulling out in front of me in a Corsa I'd have been fine.
    Last edited by cdb2; 22nd January 2007 at 13:58.
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve184
    i think you have to be doing really bad like 55 plus to get a summons - anything under is dealt with by fixed penalty SP30. I got caught doing 56 a few years back in a 30 (i was trying to defend my space on the road as some idiot was trying to jump the queue and barge in) and the police ossifer gave me a fixed penalty for this - he said had it have been 57 it would have been a summons and at least 6pts plus larger fine.
    Sorry,but I can't accept an SP30 generally covers anything up to nearly double the displayed limit.
    57 in a 30 zone would 90% over.
    Equivalent to 76mph in a 40mph zone,or 133mph in a 70mph zone !
    Given that a 30mph zone is arguably the sort of area you are most likely to hurt someone,I really can't see them being so forgiving.
    Maybe you were just lucky,in that the copper used his discretion given the circumstances.
    I would be deeply disturbed if I thought a simple SP30 fine/points gave people the go ahead to do close to 60mph past my house..
    I'd want them banned,I really would.
    I fully admit to breaking 60mph limits on quiet scottish A and B roads,but I religiously stick to 30mph zones,coz they're there for a bloody reason.

    Sorry to sound so 'uppity' about this,but we recently had a woman in a Ford Puma crash into our garden,thankfully at night or my daughter could have been playing there.
    There was no way in hell she was doing anywhere CLOSE to the 30 limit.
    When I point out the distance she travelled and the damage she did (she flattened a streetlight en-route to my garden) everyone laughs and agrees that there was no way in hell she was doing 30mph.
    She had her son in the car too,the stupid *****....
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 22nd January 2007 at 14:49.
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  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by madvw
    10 years




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  22. #21
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    Here is a link to the magistrates guide lines they are not mandatory but give a guide.

    http://www.pepipoo.com/Magistrates_guidelines.htm

    Anything up to 40 and there is no point in a summons as the guide lines say 3 points same as the fixed penalty.

    41 - 50 depends on the threshold where you live, luck of the draw.

    Anything over 50 & your almost certainly going to get a summons.


    From experience, when dealing with a traffic cops discretion it is a different story.
    Last edited by timps; 22nd January 2007 at 15:23.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    Sorry,but I can't accept an SP30 generally covers anything up to nearly double the displayed limit.
    57 in a 30 zone would 90% over.
    Equivalent to 76mph in a 40mph zone,or 133mph in a 70mph zone !
    Given that a 30mph zone is arguably the sort of area you are most likely to hurt someone,I really can't see them being so forgiving.
    Maybe you were just lucky,in that the copper used his discretion given the circumstances.
    I would be deeply disturbed if I thought a simple SP30 fine/points gave people the go ahead to do close to 60mph past my house..
    I'd want them banned,I really would.
    I fully admit to breaking 60mph limits on quiet scottish A and B roads,but I religiously stick to 30mph zones,coz they're there for a bloody reason.
    SP30 is the offence code for speeding in a 30 zone. Even if you where doing 100 in a 30 the speeding element of the offence would be SP30. (but I think the police would go for reckless driving if your where mad enough to try 100 in a 30 zone)

    I have very little sympathy for you and your potential speeding fine. The corsa may have performed the maneuver because he / she also saw the van before you did. If you cant face the time, dont do the crime.

    Its a 30 zone, stick to it, we have all seen the adverts.

  24. #23
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    So if you do get a summons can you plead guilty by letter?
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  25. #24
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    You currently have 2 weeks to wait for a NIP (Notice of Intent to Prosecute) if you don't hear anything within 2 weeks you are in the clear. The 2 week line is set for registered owners of vehicles, comapny cars / hire cars are allowed to take longer. The NIP is for you to identify the driver, it is an offence not to do so, this will then see the court issue either a summons or a fixed penalty notice. If you want to plea guilty just pay the fixed penalty notice, or enter a plea of guilty on the summons. There will be no need to go to court.

    In most cases unless you can afford the "stars" layer there is little point taking something like this to court it only increases the fine.

    Chris.

  26. #25
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    [QUOTE=HeliChris]SP30 is the offence code for speeding in a 30 zone[QUOTE]

    No it isn't.
    SP30 is speeding on a public highway.
    It's not restricted to 30 zones at all.
    the last speeding fine I had,which was a long time ago,was an SP30 and it was for doing 57 in a 50 zone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeliChris
    I have very little sympathy for you and your potential speeding fine. The corsa may have performed the maneuver because he / she also saw the van before you did. If you cant face the time, dont do the crime.
    The guy pulled out in front of me from a side road! It was either slam the brakes on on a wet road or go past. The road is wide enough to take 3 cars on both sides and was clear so I elected to go past. He didn't perform 'any manouvre' because he saw the van, he was pulling out of a side road on the same side of the van and wouldn't have been able to see the van as it was around a slight curvature in the road and behind parked cars!

    Having had a 100% clean licence for 20yrs I rightly consider myself a safe driver.
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    [QUOTE=bowfer][QUOTE=HeliChris]SP30 is the offence code for speeding in a 30 zone

    No it isn't.
    SP30 is speeding on a public highway.
    It's not restricted to 30 zones at all.
    the last speeding fine I had,which was a long time ago,was an SP30 and it was for doing 57 in a 50 zone.
    I had an sp50 for 67mph on a 50mph dual carriageway and sp50 = exceeding motorway speed limit. SP30 mean exceeding statutory speed limit on public road.

    On a side note make sure you tell your insurance(you sometimes only need to do this when you renew, you would need to read your small print though). I let my insurance automatically renew and didnt even think about my points. The following year I phoned them to see if they would drop their price a little and told them about the points when asked, the phone went quite for a bit and the woman came back and told me I owed them 162 for not declaring them the previous year.
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  29. #28
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    "It’s a 30 zone, stick to it, we have all seen the adverts"
    You were probably the idiot in the Corsa.
    There's 30's and 30's. There's a 30 limit on the Millbrook bypass which is a 3 lane motorway with no access for pedestrians, it means nothing. Mobile traps do not take into account the type of road, conditions, time of day etc. They set the kit to a threshold of 35 and anyone over gets done it's as simple as that. Up to 40 it's a fixed penalty, 40+ and you'll get a summons. 50+ and you could get a short ban but at least they will take into account the type of road & conditions.

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dandle
    SP30 is the offence code for speeding in a 30 zone

    SP30 mean exceeding statutory speed limit on public road.
    Yeah,that's it,my wording was wrong.
    I knew it wasn't restricted to 30 zones though.
    It's an 'all encompassing' code.
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  31. #30
    Bowfer - do you normally stick to the speed limits on your bike. Because round here most of the cameras are Truvelo which are normally set up to take photos of traffic coming towards them. As motor bikes don't have a front number plate most completely ignore the limits and the cameras. Camera vans are the same and photgraph trafiic coming towards them.

    The other day I was in a 40 limit and was doing 40 whilst I passed a fixed camera and a guy (or girl) on a bike passed me as though I was standing still. He/she must have being doing around 80mph.
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  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr
    Bowfer - do you normally stick to the speed limits on your bike. Because round here most of the cameras are Truvelo which are normally set up to take photos of traffic coming towards them. As motor bikes don't have a front number plate most completely ignore the limits and the cameras. Camera vans are the same and photgraph trafiic coming towards them.

    The other day I was in a 40 limit and was doing 40 whilst I passed a fixed camera and a guy (or girl) on a bike passed me as though I was standing still. He/she must have being doing around 80mph.
    I drive my car and bike in the same manner.
    Always stick to limits in built-up areas,then go for it on quiet A/B roads.
    There are plenty of idiot bikers just as there are car drivers though,I'm fully aware of that.
    When I stick to 30mph on my bike,I often get nuggets in cars trying to overtake me.
    Whether they think I'm on a moped or something,I dunno.
    I just leave them 'stranded' on the wrong side of the road with a little twist of the throttle,before slowing down again.
    Just tells them I'm not doing 30mph because I 'have' to,but because I want to.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 22nd January 2007 at 16:11.
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  33. #32
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    I know these threads can descend into something quite nasty, and this isn't my intention, but I have to say that your original description of how you found yourself to be doing nearly 40 in a 30 sounds a bit lame!

    IF you were doing 30, and somebody pulled out in front of you, surely the natural reaction was to brake, not speed up and overtake them? Having said that, I quite understand the next reaction, which is to think 'what an idiot' and to then overtake the person who's held you up, I've done this myself.

    Unfortunately for you, a camera van was there to potentially nab you for it. I guess that is whats really annoying you here!

    In the vast majority of cases, NIPs linked to these vans will be sent within just a few days, and you probably won't have to wait 14. The van operator will have downloaded his stuff this afternoon, the DVLA database accessed to obtain the keeper information, and the NIP probably printed for posting. Even if you were doing 40, it'll 99% be the 3 points and a fine you end up paying.

    But, there's a very good chance you weren't captured at all, as these vans are only operational for about 25 mins in an hour owing to camera operation guidelines from ACPO, and the frequent breaks the operators have to take. They can also take speed readings facing you, or following you, but mostly forward facing so they can prove who was driving if necessary.

    I find the description of these operators a bit distasteful to be honest. There's a really easy way to avoid being nabbed, and that's to stick to the speed limit.

    cdb2, you also would have been fine if you'd stayed behind the numpty car, within the speedlimit, and then gone past when it was ok to do so.

    Anyway, I'm sounding too much like a moralising high horse dweller here, but it just comes from bitter experience! Take the points if they come, and learn the lesson like I did!
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  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac
    "Its a 30 zone, stick to it, we have all seen the adverts"
    You were probably the idiot in the Corsa.
    There's 30's and 30's. There's a 30 limit on the Millbrook bypass which is a 3 lane motorway with no access for pedestrians, it means nothing. Mobile traps do not take into account the type of road, conditions, time of day etc. They set the kit to a threshold of 35 and anyone over gets done it's as simple as that. Up to 40 it's a fixed penalty, 40+ and you'll get a summons. 50+ and you could get a short ban but at least they will take into account the type of road & conditions.
    I am not a idiot in a Corsa, but I live in a country that is obsessed with speed limits. Speeding is breaking the laws of this country regardless and I don't like it either, but I can't change it. But you can see why when you look at stats that show 10 road deaths a day. A few year ago drink driving was socially acceptable, but the attitude has changed, the goverment it trying to do the same with speeding.

    I stand by my comments, if your speeding don't get up set when you are caught. I do track days, and cheap fligh trips to Germany to excercise my speed demon, and since I started this I can't be bothered speeding on the public roads, just don't see the point.

    cdb2 - 20 years and no speeding tickets, is a commendable record, but the police view on this will be you chould have stopped if you where traverling on or the below the limit. I hope in this case its going to amount to nothing .

  35. #34
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    bowfer, why would you do that, accellerate when cars try to go past? Isn't it better just to let them get on with it? (I speak as an ocassional motorcyclist myself here!) I'm not looking for an argument, just interested in the psychology.
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  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfer
    When I stick to 30mph on my bike,I often get nuggets in cars trying to overtake me.
    Whether they think I'm on a moped or something,I dunno.
    I just leave them 'stranded' on the wrong side of the road with a little twist of the throttle,before slowing down again.
    Just tells them I'm not doing 30mph because I 'have' to,but because I want to.
    Why don't you just let them pass? Whats it got to so with you if they want to speed?

    It pi$$es me off when people like you do such things like flash you headlights when I overtake or speed themselfs to try and stop me. If you dont want to speed then great but i'll make up my own mind not be dictated to by some nut farting about giving everyone a driving lesson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks
    I find the description of these operators a bit distasteful to be honest. There's a really easy way to avoid being nabbed, and that's to stick to the speed limit.
    There's a lot more worthwhile jobs out there than sitting in a yellow van on a motorway flyover.

    However, speeding in built up areas is definitely not OK.

    The whole lot comes down to what people think is an acceptable speed limit for the given road and weather condition. It appears nobody in the world can sort that one out, or they'd be the same everywhere.


  38. #37
    I drive my car and bike in the same manner.
    Always stick to limits in built-up areas,then go for it on quiet A/B roads.
    The problem around here is it's the open A/B single and dual carriageways where they put the cameras. Very few are in 30 limits. On the A1 south of here they have lowered the speed limit to 60. There are no junctions, houses, schools or anything else, just a slight bend in the road. A month or so after the speed limit was lowered, up pop 2 cameras, one on either carraigeway. It's this type of thing that gets the whole speed limit system a bad name.

    In Germany on the autobahns, because there is no overall speed limit and limits are only imposed where there are necessary, most of the traffic tends to stick to those limits because they know they are there for a reason. There are allowed to drive at a speed they consider safe where there is no reason not to.

    I'm sure if the police and authorities had there way we would be back to having to have a man walking in front of each and every car with a red flag. It's not speeding itself that is dangerous. It's far more to do with a lack of concentration and adjusting ones driving to the conditions. A person driving along at 30 in a 30 limit, looking around or talking on the phone is far more dangerous than a person doing 40 in a 30 limit who is concentrating and anticipating what is happening ahead. At those sort of speeds it's the reaction time required to apply the brakes that is the main factor on how quickly the car will stop.

    Rant over !
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  39. #38
    Rich's Avatar
    Rollin on boost mother hubbards

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    Quote Originally Posted by nervus
    Why don't you just let them pass? Whats it got to so with you if they want to speed?

    It pi$$es me off when people like you do such things like flash you headlights when I overtake or speed themselfs to try and stop me. If you dont want to speed then great but i'll make up my own mind not be dictated to by some nut farting about giving everyone a driving lesson.

    Amen

  40. #39
    Learning to fly 3D

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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr
    The problem around here is it's the open A/B single and dual carriageways where they put the cameras. Very few are in 30 limits. On the A1 south of here they have lowered the speed limit to 60. There are no junctions, houses, schools or anything else, just a slight bend in the road. A month or so after the speed limit was lowered, up pop 2 cameras, one on either carraigeway. It's this type of thing that gets the whole speed limit system a bad name.

    In Germany on the autobahns, because there is no overall speed limit and limits are only imposed where there are necessary, most of the traffic tends to stick to those limits because they know they are there for a reason. There are allowed to drive at a speed they consider safe where there is no reason not to.

    I'm sure if the police and authorities had there way we would be back to having to have a man walking in front of each and every car with a red flag. It's not speeding itself that is dangerous. It's far more to do with a lack of concentration and adjusting ones driving to the conditions. A person driving along at 30 in a 30 limit, looking around or talking on the phone is far more dangerous than a person doing 40 in a 30 limit who is concentrating and anticipating what is happening ahead. At those sort of speeds it's the reaction time required to apply the brakes that is the main factor on how quickly the car will stop.

    Rant over !
    I agree and disagree

    I agree that the person sticking to 30 in a 30 on the phone is far more dangerous than the person concentrating doing 40.

    But the problem is the things outside that persons control doing 40, that make doing 40 equally dangerous, and with modern cars not for the person doing 40 but for another person / child going about their lives.

    i.e. a corsa driver pulling out on a wet road.

    It's all about seeing the bigger picture.

    Chris.

    PS I love the way in Germany when a limit is posted the driver tend to stick to it, I suppose its a little give and take.

  41. #40
    I agree that the person sticking to 30 in a 30 on the phone is far more dangerous than the person concentrating doing 40.

    But the problem is the things outside that persons control doing 40, that make doing 40 equally dangerous, and with modern cars not for the person doing 40 but for another person / child going about their lives.
    Yes, but the driving doing 40 and concentrating is still going to stop a lot quicker than the person doing 30 are not concentrating. Most drivers tend to concentrate more the faster they are driving. Sticking to 30 you are far more likely to be looking at your speedo that what's going on ahead of you, especially if there are cameras around.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

 

 
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